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Thread: Interesting News Snippets

  1. #1141
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    Bruce, you lost me there. How does making tuition free favour the better off in society?

    I think you'll find a Telegraph survey said that Telegraph readers said they would be less likely to vote Labour (!) after reading the Telegraph's version of a draft document. This is not the same as public opinion.

    I read it - it's a piece of propaganda. CapX is edited by Robert Colvile, former head of comment at the Telegraph. Although it claims to be a straight news site, it is actually owned by the 'Centre for Policy Studies', an equally false-colours organisation founded by 'Baroness' Thatcher and Sir Keith Joseph. No, I am not being an arm-waving tinfoil hatter - look it up if you don't believe me!

    Although the writer suggested they should, my eyes did not glaze over when reading the DRAFT manifesto ideas.

    Not only does it seek to misguide, it also get a bit nasty in tone - much like one of the contributors here who talks off 'crushing' and 'murdering' those with left wing tendencies, this asks us to give 'the strongest possible thumping' to people who dare suggest these things.

    I read it, and now I need a shower.
    Last edited by Beermat; 12th May 2017 at 15:31.
    www.whirlwindfighterproject.org
    It's all good. Probably.

  2. #1142
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Green
    I wouldn't fault much of that. I'm not too Wilde about Oscar but, he probably got it right !
    I don't recall Halal abattoirs cropping up in The Picture of Dorian Gray, but I did skip a few pages towards the middle where Gray 'experiments with every vice', so perhaps it was somewhere in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beermat
    I read it - it's a piece of propaganda. CapX is edited by Robert Colvile, former head of comment at the Telegraph. Although it claims to be a straight news site, it is actually owned by the 'Centre for Policy Studies', an equally false-colours organisation founded by 'Baroness' Thatcher and Sir Keith Joseph. No, I am not being an arm-waving tinfoil hatter - look it up if you don't believe me!
    I thought we'd hit a new low when Guido Fawkes' dreadful webpage was cited on here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beermat
    How does making tuition free favour the better off in society?
    That stumped me as well. I read an article a long time ago that suggested that one needed to 'woodshed' for 10,000 hours or so to become good at something. The thinking was that children from more affluent areas typically excel musically, academically or at sport because they had calmer home lives with fewer adult responsibilities (getting a younger sibling dressed for school because the parents are AWOL for example). I suppose the notion is possibly that the better off are more likely to be heading to university anyway, and any lingering barriers (which probably wouldn't arise from not being able to cough up tuition fees) are removed.

    I'm torn on the issue of tuition fees. The matter could potentially quietly resolve itself if we reversed the Blairite policy of allowing vast numbers of school leavers to gain degrees. It hasn't really helped much, beyond a piece of paper, as I know a lot of graduates doing fairly menial jobs because their identikit CVs don't gain them any real traction in the job market. Ironically it is the graduates from affluent backgrounds, who were able to volunteer in their chosen field during holidays or ****** off and build schools in Africa, who probably have the slightly richer range of experiences on their CV when they graduate. However I'm not sure how you can reverse this policy easily. Revert red brick universities back to Polytechnics? How would you begin a task like that?

    Either way, in the grand scheme of things the issue of large student loans is an issue for the loan companies and not the graduates. If half the population aged 21 to 25 owe £40k or whatever, and they are paying that off with minimal interest from their £18k salary working in retail, then that isn't really their problem.

  3. #1143
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    Look, it's simple.

    At present, there is a low percentage of kids who receive free school meals, and according to their circumstance. For all others, their parents pay for them.

    If you apply FSM across the board, then those who already receive them gain nothing. Those who don't need it gain monetarily.

    Then extrapolate to tuition fees.


    Bruce

  4. #1144
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    But Bruce, that's not analogous, is it? At the moment tuition fees are not means tested like fsm are. If you can't afford them you don't get them free - this 'nightmare scenario' (to a tory) has been avoided by making them a loan available to all, but only immediately payable back by the children of rich parents.

    Then there's the point that the poor can (and do) opt out of higher ed for themselves or their kids for financial reasons - it is harder to opt out of your children eating food. One is a policy the tories might hope to sustain, the other might be a problem even with the telegraph's backing.

    Unless I missed a policy change in either area (It's been a while since I was around higher ed) then the two are not the same, and extrapolating one to argue the other is logically false.

    Oh dear. I hope I am not giving central office ideas. I can see it now - school meal loans for all - payable when you grow up..

    Taxing future generations, while neatly avoiding anything progressive. Trebles all round!
    Last edited by Beermat; 12th May 2017 at 22:47.

  5. #1145
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    But it is, though I agree it isn't quite the same thing.

    The well off can afford to pay tuition fees without a loan. Only the less well off end up with a loan. So, by making it free for all, the well off, who can afford it anyway, do better from the deal. In effect, its reverse taxation.

    I know that means testing makes many people uncomfortable, and it isn't perfect, but it seems to be a bit fairer to me.

  6. #1146
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    Agree it's reverse taxation, and yes, means testing might be a good idea instead. Along with proper honest academic selection of those who would benefit from a university education, and those who would benefit from time at a poly, and those who really should just go out and get a job not a gap-three-years on daddy's money.. it would fix a lot of the mess.

    My hazy memory is telling me something. Oh yes. Those dark days of the seventies..

  7. #1147
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    More like the 80's. I was one of those who decided to just go and get a job after I failed all my A levels. I probably shouldn't have in retrospect, but it is what it is. The current idiom means people are selected based on academic prowess, and rarely on the ability to actually do a job.

  8. #1148
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    Yeah, I was being economical with the truth, my memories of the seventies are only hazy because I was between one and eleven years old at the time.

    I would not have gone to university in the current situation, as I was raised not to get into debt. Of course, real life has kicked that out of me. When I went there was a grant, but already the signs were there of the decline and fall of education. Part of the student union became an 'entreprenurial ideas w*nk zone' or something even then (no one remembers asking for one) and now the logical conclusion has happened. The sign on the door no longer says 'University of Liverpool Guild of Students'. It now says 'Starbucks'.
    Last edited by Beermat; 13th May 2017 at 08:58.

  9. #1149
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    Better that than 'Gulag'.

  10. #1150
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    As in archipelago? Yes, I got the (oddly threatening) anti-intellectual reference thanks to an education paid for by the state. Bet you hate that.
    Last edited by Beermat; 14th May 2017 at 18:01.

  11. #1151
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    Actually, I do not. I just wish that when you write, you would spend more time on construction so that the intellectually challenged, such as myself, don't have to dig so deeply for your message !

  12. #1152
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    I should've seen this coming !

    The worlds favourite newspaper reports that if Jeremy makes it to No. 10 perhaps wafted in with the help of 3 million loyal, Allah fearing, Asian voters he won't be there long enough to engage Diane as Mrs. Mopp, he'll be out on his ear unable to obtain security clearances to enable him to deal with the kind of emergencies that PM's of this country have, from time to time, to effectively manage.

    British security chiefs have inferred that he has about as much chance as enabling Labour to properly manage the economy.

    To echo Bruce's mantra; "we live in interesting times"

  13. #1153
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    Strange, I didn't see that in either the Guardian or the Independent, so to which favorite paper exactly do you refer? You surely can't mean the Torygraph or the Mail.
    Suggesting that all the muslim asian voters will vote labour wouldn't go down well in my neck of the woods, you are a bit out of date
    But since he is most unlikely to win, all it is is revealing their own affiliations and scaremongering (what, from the Mail or the Torygraph? Surely not!!)

    Edit;
    I've just found it! Torygraph!!! ( then repeated in the Fail) actually it doesn't say exactly what you think it did, all it says is that he wouldn't have been allowed to join the security services when he was running them, not that it would actully stop him from getting on with the job. That would be undemocratic and he and you should realise that

    Also, Dearlove had an interesting perspective on Islamist terrorism that might not endear him to some on here
    in July 2014 he argued that the government and media had exaggerated the Islamist terrorism threat to the UK, giving extremists publicity counter-productive to UK interests.
    Last edited by trekbuster; 8th June 2017 at 16:34.

  14. #1154
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    Undemocratic ? Maybe. Correct? Certainly. He could never be trusted - ever.

    I fail entirely to imagine how shining the spotlight on terrorists could be counter productive. It isn't as tho' once they're caught they'll be herded, without being charged, and despatched to a latter day Guantanamo or, deported. At least not until they've relieved the British taxpayer of a million quid in damages for wrongful arrest courtesy of Human Rights.

  15. #1155
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    And just for good measure, there he is, sidelined yet again for perhaps a further five years, he might of course ladle some medicine into Diane and then marry her - what a delightful couple. As an ardent supporter, I would hope to get an invitation.

  16. #1156
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    As such an ardent supporter perhaps you will be celebrating her increase in majority from 11000 to 35000 votes.

  17. #1157
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    If nothing else, the single event you report, is about as shocking an indictment of the level of stupidity of some of those who vote Labour as you are likely to find anywhere !

    I ask myself if Labour could have done any better if they had fielded an ugly donkey as a candidate.

    Trekkie, since you ask, what I will be celebrating is an opportunity over the life of the next parliament, to listen and appreciate some of Miss Abbotts simple but erudite political comments, particularly those of a mathematical nature.

  18. #1158
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    I doubt you have followed Abbott's political career and - for example - her regular appearences alongside Portaloo on Andrew Neil's politics programme.

    If you had you might have been as concerned about her health as I have been for some time previous to her sick leave.

    You might be alarmed, bearing in mind certain prejudices, to discover that she was sharp and funny, a capable foil to Portillo and Neil and occasionally producing a blaze of surprising erudition. That is why she had the gig - it would have been a pretty poor show otherwise.

    During the recent campaign her answers became slower, her focus more vague. She was struggling.

    I hope she does recover soon - as I am sure her constituents do.

  19. #1159
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    As an aspiring amateur physician eg. unpaid, I can reliably inform you that the much admired Diane Abbott is suffering from out-of-her-depth disease. No cure.

  20. #1160
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    #9, I also have this problem, and yes got two different opinions from doctors. Who to believe to?

  21. #1161
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    #1159

    When did she have a political career ?

  22. #1162
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    Are there no beginnings to this man's talents ?

    Jeremy Corbyn, our Prime Minister- in- waiting (could be a longish wait) is mentioned in the D.Tel to-day as favouring the criminal expropriation of empty private property either directly by the dispossessed or, those from Rent-a-Mob acting on their behalf.

    Is this man fit for public office ? It seems that judged by the above, the answer is a loud no !

    You don't have any money? Rob a bank. Apparently JC will support you. If you haven't got something, take it from someone else. It makes perfect sense - ask JC.
    Last edited by John Green; 19th June 2017 at 10:46.

  23. #1163
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    In a television interview over the weekend (Robert Peston?) Jeremy Corbyn did seem to mention 'occupation' of vacant 'land banked' property in London; I did wonder at the time what he was driving at?

    If some of the more radical 'socialist worker' elements of his supporters were to take matters into their own hands, in the hope that there would be some sort of 'revolutionary' ground-swell of public support for Labour in the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, then I would say that they would be gravely mistaken in that belief...

    ...while it may be seen as a popular or even 'just' move within certain political circles, there is nothing on this earth that will turn the British people against Labour as much as a group of 'revolutionaries' invading private dwellings (especially if those groups contain a mixture militants, migrants and asylum-seekers)!

    And if Jeremy Corbyn is actually encouraging this, he's as much out of touch as any Conservative!
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 19th June 2017 at 12:16.
    WA$.

  24. #1164
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    Stop press ! Read all about it ! Who'd have thought it ?

    The US Treasury is about to unload $4.4 trillion worth of U.S Govt bonds. For that amount I could buy a cup of Marks & Sparks hot chocolate for both me and Mrs. G. and still have some change.

    The D. Tel to-day carries a report that the Federal Reserve in the face of very persuasive and influential counter advice from top economists has started to unload its $4.4 bond portfolio before interest rates have returned to anything like normal levels. The sell-off will be gradual starting at $10 billion per month and rising to $50 billion per month.

    Dollar liquidity wise, the markets could be in for a very rough ride. Question: who will be the buyers ?

    There may be trouble ahead but, while there's moonlight and love and romance, let's face the music and dance, dance, dance.

    how I love the golden oldies !

  25. #1165
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    Good to see that some of the government ministers have their priorities focussed on promoting Britain's standing in the world*
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nce-is-massive


    * and I don't mean David Davies

  26. #1166
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    Can you enlighten me please ? How do we know beyond all doubt that the British taxpayers pounds are going to the right target, meeting the correct need and that corruption which always follows as a consequence, is zero.

    If you can produce honest and satisfactory answers permitting of no ambiguity, I will tonight once more plunder my savings in the Toby Jug sitting on my kitchen window !

  27. #1167
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    Priti Patel is one if the nastiest and yet most stupid people ever to hold office in this country. I rarely react with actual nausea when I hear a name.

    'Ugli' has only ever worked in PR. She could only get the jobs nobody else wanted, promoting smoking and booze.

    Her willingness to sink below the moral and ethical radar naturally led to her gravitation to the right wing of the Conservative party.

    She is desperately under-qualified for her post, but being Asian nobody dares point it out.

    I do not believe a single word that comes out of her nasty little mouth.

  28. #1168
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    So, she isn't all bad then. I rather like her after that diatribe.

  29. #1169
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    I'm surprised you haven't met her down the Maggie T fan club social.

    Seriously though, it's not about the party. You remember your line about the politicians we deserve? Compare Patel to Ken Clarke, for example. We need to raise our own game.
    Last edited by Beermat; 19th June 2017 at 18:38.

  30. #1170
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    In a television interview over the weekend (Robert Peston?) Jeremy Corbyn did seem to mention 'occupation' of vacant 'land banked' property in London; I did wonder at the time what he was driving at?
    His loyal No.2 has said the same thing: -



    It would seem that their 'success' in the GE has gone to their heads, and they believe they are in power!

    Just thank God that they aren't!

    Talking of McDonnell, I read in Friday's Times that he has told people to "get out on the streets" to pressure the PM to hold another GE.

    If they follow his advice, no doubt we will see the same sort of disgraceful scenes witnessed on Friday, when Grenfell Tower 'protesters' stormed the Kensington & Chelsea council offices, abusing and threatening it's staff.

    Lovely stuff!

    Cheers

    Paul
    Last edited by Bradburger; 19th June 2017 at 18:29.
    The most usless commodity in aerobatics is the amount of sky above you!

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