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Thread: Interesting News Snippets

  1. #1171
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    Suspect a bit too swarthy for your liking JG.

  2. #1172
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    Don't be obtuse. Who ?

  3. #1173
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    Re#1167

    The difference between us is that I don't actually expect every single pound to get to the program it is aimed at. I am quite content that the vast majority does and the good that the programs our government support provides an enhanced reputation to the UK that is beyond anything dubious foreign policy decisions does. We punch well above our weight in this area, and that is to be applauded.

    Certainly it is far better than the very dodgy foreign arms sales that this administration is pushing in an already volatile area of the world, no corruption there of course (not)
    Last edited by trekbuster; 19th June 2017 at 19:43.

  4. #1174
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    Why, Brad, do you own empty properties in central London?

    If not, why do you care what happens to some Russian criminal's high-interest cash laundry?

    You know what, we need more angry mobs. Maybe shake a little reality into bent councils and their shady little deals, arrogant ministers with no moral compass but a willingness to be worked by a PR hand up their backsides, and chancers who think 'populism' is a philosophy in itself.

    You might find it disgraceful. I find it a source of hope. We aren't all lying down, closing our eyes and thinking of England. Ironically that's because, thank God, this IS England.
    Last edited by Beermat; 19th June 2017 at 20:05.

  5. #1175
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    ..and Agent K posted something over on John's independence day thread that might help paint the picture for those who still don't know what's happening.

  6. #1176
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    Beermat,

    You paint a rather simplistic view regarding the empty properties situation in London.

    Whilst indeed many may well be used by 'Russian criminals' as a 'cash laundry', many are not, and it even if some are owned by criminals (of any nation), how do you prove it?

    This is a classic case of Corbyn and his band of nippers not liking the fact that some people (non criminals if that helps you) can afford to have two or three empty or little used properties in London, so therefore, they have got to be penalised, because, in their view it is not fair!

    (Can you not see that Corbyn and his mob are in fact politicising the Grenfell Tower disaster, despite far too many people claiming he is not?)

    And there is no need to lecture me about 'bent' councils.

    As someone who spent rather too long fighting one on behalf of my late grandfather, I know all too well about their cost saving, 'shady deals' (as you put it), and downright incompetence when it comes to running a block of flats, and maintaining it.

    Yes, it left a bitter taste in my mouth, and at times you do feel that you are banging your head against a brick wall, and that you need to do something rather more drastic than the odd meeting and constant letter writing.

    But can you tell me, precisely how many of those who descended en mass to the Kensington & Chelsea council offices on Friday were actually residents of the Grenfell Tower?

    I suspect none, because I would imagine that those who have just lost their homes, friends, neighbours, and loved ones, would be rather preoccupied with more pressing things at such a time.

    Cheers

    Paul
    Last edited by Bradburger; 19th June 2017 at 21:21.
    The most usless commodity in aerobatics is the amount of sky above you!

  7. #1177
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    I don't know upon what exactly your confidence is based but this I can tell you. it is misplaced. I've worked thru'out both the Middle and the Far East and I know that corruption rules. Doors open when you offer 'baksheesh'.

    Trekkie, you have no idea just where your taxpayers cash ends up. I don't know but my suspicions are well founded.

    If aid cash became instead aid goods and equipment that would make a lot more sense.

  8. #1178
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    Bradburger, it's a concept called acting on behalf of others less able to do so. Dig deep. Think back to a time before you were told by your telescreen that there is no such thing as society.

    Yes, the survivors would have other things to concern them. The rest are dead, Bradburger. It is not some communist plot that people are angry, its humanity.
    Last edited by Beermat; 19th June 2017 at 21:45.

  9. #1179
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    Beermat,

    I think you have finally lost the plot!

    Clearly you didn't read my post properly, as I myself was 'acting on behalf' of someone who was 'less able to do so'.

    Or does it not count because it was a member of my family, or wasn't (in your mind) poor?

    So, with your infinite wisdom and grasp of all things worldly, please tell me, exactly what did they achieve on Friday by forcing their way into those council offices, on behalf of those less able to do so?

    (And I think you should ask yourself who they were really acting for).

    Dig deep!

    Cheers

    Paul
    The most usless commodity in aerobatics is the amount of sky above you!

  10. #1180
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    ...why do you care what happens to some Russian criminal's high-interest cash laundry?
    Why, in your world view, does everybody who is wealthy have to be undeserving of their wealth...

    ...is that how you justify helping yourself to something you haven't worked for?
    WA$.

  11. #1181
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    CD first.

    Who exactly is helping themselves to something they haven't worked for, beyond emergency accomdation? No one is suggesting the victims are given these houses to keep! It's not about it being 'unfair', its about practical use of housing as housing not just as a savings account when there is a need to do so.

    These are empty houses
    They are not used
    Not occupied
    Not lived in
    Not enjoyed
    Provide no shelter

    They are assets. They are assets because they sit where they sit. They will remain assets whether they have been used as temporary accommodation for families displaced by a fire or not. No one will take them away.


    Whatever you think about my wisdom or otherwise I do know enough about the world to know that in many other nations, especially the ones that exhibit a 'super rich', it is really not at all about 'honest graft'. It is painfully naive to think these places belong to hard workers from these societies. You are not looking at extra shifts down the tractor factory here.

    Not that this is relevant, sorry for even mentioning the shameful role we play in banking for these people.

    But put that aside. What IS criminal is that these stand empty while people are made homeless through no fault of their own.

    It is political, but it's not because politics have been superimposed on it by any leader. It is at the very heart of of two different ways of thinking that separate left from right. Right says people can keep others away from their assets because their property is inviolate whether they live in it not - in other words, no one else should benefit from their ownership of capital as a matter of 'principle'.

    Left says why? Nobody wins from applying this principle in this case, let's consider how we can house these people in unused houses. Even if it means paying fair rent to the owners.

    It is up to us all and our consciences which way we go on this - not which leader we prefer or whether we consider ourselves labour or conservative first.

    Brad, everyone - including our councils and our government - understand the feeling now. As we live in a democracy they are obliged to act accordingly should they desire to remain in power. Protest works that way.

    OK, you do get the principle of acting for others. So why did you find it necessary to point out that most were probably not victims?

    Plot far from lost. Sometimes it feels like I'm one of the very few (here) who are actually keeping up with it.

    Did you read that article over on the Independence Day thread? Handy plot summary.
    Last edited by Beermat; 20th June 2017 at 12:13.

  12. #1182
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    With respect BM, this is coming over as an excuse to advance yet another ideological position. There were 120 flats in Grenfell. With the deepest regret, we know that they wont be rehoming 120 families. So, what is needed in the immediate term is a number of rooms, or flats or houses or whatever to get the affected people over the initial few days. In the meantime, they need to be looking for permanent properties.

    I assume it is still common place for councils to use hotels and hostels for this sort of thing, and I would expect this to be the case (in the immediate term). Once the numbers are known, I suspect that finding replacement property wont be as hard as we are being told it will. I suggest that this has been an opportunity to highlight another inequality within a capitalist society. I'm not disagreeing with that, but I dislike the political intent at this time.

  13. #1183
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    What is shameful is the attempt by the Telegraph and the Mail (and probably others but I had to get some air) to make out that the protest organisers were both opportunist political extremists and somehow a bad element by finding some that had expressed support for the opposition in the past. The Telegraph even went as far as insinuating that one, who had lost a family friend, was a terrorist. He is actually on video appealing for calm and against the use of any kind of violence of intimidation during the march.

    The only politicisation is coming from the right, who are determined to brand those with genuine grievences against the Government 'criminal'. It is not helped by the element who would join anything that might offer a chance of agro. These people are also attracted by Millwall FC and the police (who thankfully weed them out now). They are not the organisers here.

    The only way the situation can improve is through a peaceful political shift. Democracy. Unfortunately there is no way another election will be called by the Cowardly Lioness right now. So we are left with growing anger - as has been astutely observed elsewhere, this is what happens when real populism collides with the manufactured version.
    Last edited by Beermat; 20th June 2017 at 09:31.

  14. #1184
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    The only politicisation is coming from the right...
    Utter rubbish!

    Those were right-wing demonstrators with the 'Socialist Worker' placards saying 'Kick the Tories Out' I suppose?

    No point in discussing this further; you're as blind as those you clearly have a deep-rooted hatred for.
    WA$.

  15. #1185
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    No, I see the placards. Yes, they were on the march. Not blind.

    OK, I understand what you are saying, of course some people there had political views. They will turn up and wave their placards at the camera, of course they will. And yes, I concede that serves to politicise the protest, by definition, of course it does. So I retract my statement.

    I stand by the point that the situation is inherently political, it has not been hijacked by politicians or political activists as the right wish to claim, it (the resentment, the unrest, the growing interest in the alternatives to conservatism) was already there. It's just that the cameras are there now, and people are organising protests.

    Hatred is a very strong word, CD. Some of my best friends are tories - that's actually true, not a throwaway line. I reserve my hatred for the obvious leeches.

    Example. This man, despite having two 'full-time' jobs, one of which is supposed to be as a representative of the people in his Ward and the other marketing for a stock exchange (not sure why the NY exchange needs marketing, but there you go) is paid £25,000 a year of our money to 'manage his wife's office'. https://democracy.bexley.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=177

    Now, if you feel this is wrong, is that feeling 'political', just because he and his wife are tories (yes, it's that Patel again - interesting that despite being staunchly traditional in such things she doesn't trade as Priti Sawyer)? No. But they can both be voted out, so if my anger translates into me waving a placard that says 'vote for somebody else' then yes, I accept the charge of politicisation. Is that not better than the alternative with barrels of gunpowder (or a modern equivalent)?



    The unrest comes first, aligning with the opposition follows. That was my point. And it's nothing more than democracy in action. There are interests who would rather paint it differently - the Telegraph are now claiming this free protest is a harbinger of tyranny.
    Last edited by Beermat; 20th June 2017 at 12:18.
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  16. #1186
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    ..and further to accepting the charge of politicisation, your honour, I call the New Statesman to my defence.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...grenfell-tower

    Of course, no-one need read this, as ministers didn't read the letters from concerned residents.
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  17. #1187
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    It appears that the government has acquired 68 new build flats in Kensington to permanently rehouse some of the Grenfell survivors. Seems reasonable?

  18. #1188
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    who would have guessed it? It appears that the right wing press isn't willing to publish details of the car crash interview I mentioned yesterday with BoJo on R4

    Those who perhaps missed the fun can hear some of it on the link from this web page. The whole thing is if anything worse than these snippets show.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7801936.html

    Some further analysis here

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...r-diane-abbott


    But in all serousness, it is at least as bad as anything Corbyn did during the election in terms of being unprepared before an interview it is approaching that of an Abbott and yet the difference is this buffoon is our foreign secretary with long term ambition to be PM
    Last edited by trekbuster; 22nd June 2017 at 13:58.

  19. #1189
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    Bruce, I think like you it seems very reasonable especially if you are a member of an ethnic minority owing no allegiance to this country, its traditions and culture.

    I think that it seems very reasonable if you are a fairly recent arrival in this country, speaking no English, importing your habits, culture and way of life and with the intention - because you don't like the way the too tolerant West lives - of over time, imposing your own culture, if necessary it appears, with a measure of violence.

    Your well meaning liberal, bend-over-backwards-at-any-cost stance is not very reasonable to a native born English family who, for reasons that elude me, wish to live in the cesspit we call London. They might wish to live there for work reasons, to be near their family or, they might just like big city life. It takes all sorts.

    The reality is that social housing will be denied them because there isn't any and what there is, is taken up satisfying the needs of newcomers - see your comment. As for private accommodation ? They might be able to rent at exorbitant rates, as we know scarcity drives up price. As for buying ? Pigs and flying come to mind.

    To people who feel that they have a many generation attachment to this country, who have suffered the loss of many family members, counting just the last two world wars your 'seems reasonable' comment is a touch crass to say the least.

    To the holier-than-thou Rent-A-Mob getting ready to crank their act into gear- don't bother. I heard all the weeping heart angst ridden crap many times over.

  20. #1190
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    It appears that the government has acquired 68 new build flats in Kensington to permanently rehouse some of the Grenfell survivors. Seems reasonable?
    Immensely, as they are being sold at cost to the UK PLC, so are an appreciating asset, I wonder who gets the rent? The Government or the Council.

    All this talk of taking peoples houses and putting people in them etc, reminds me of the Farmer, having watched a couple of ramblers tread his crops to death by not sticking on the path, he followed them home and was walking around in their flower beds when a disgruntled rambler came out of the house and said WTF are you doing.. you are destroying my flowers etc.... in other words be careful what you do to others, as others may do unto you the same... 2nd homes for MP's paid by the taxpayer anyone?
    Last edited by TonyT; 22nd June 2017 at 15:25.

  21. #1191
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    With respect BM, this is coming over as an excuse to advance yet another ideological position. There were 120 flats in Grenfell. With the deepest regret, we know that they wont be rehoming 120 families.
    What gets me in all of this is just as an example they all survived, say 120 families, two parents, 240 total 3 kids each say 360, so 600 people..ish.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/819...ictims-updates

    Mrs May told the House of Commons each family whose home was destroyed will receive £5,000 and families will not be rehouses outside of the borough of Kensington and Chelsea.
    The Prime Minister said accepting the emergency payouts will not affect benefits or rights to sue.
    More than £700,000 has been paid out to victims so far, who will not have be expected to repay the cash, and a central command centre has been set up to control the response, with more than 600 people working to support victims in the area.
    so that figure works out, but then you also have add stuff like

    https://cafdonate.cafonline.org/2205#/DonationDetails

    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/evenin...eaches-700000/

    We've raised £1,121,686.50
    of our £1,500,000.00 target

    As of 14th June 2017 The Evening Standard Dispossessed Fund is receiving donations towards supporting those affected by the Grenfell Tower tragedy, all donations made on this site will be restricted to this appeal.

    Then of course there is the Just Giving site and that is at

    £1,683,351 raised of
    £2,000,000 target by 22,278 supporters


    https://www.justgiving.com/campaigns...unity/grenfell

    https://cafdonate.cafonline.org/6745#/DonationDetails

    We've raised £235,754.38
    Artists for Grenfell

    Artists for Grenfell and The London Community Foundation are receiving donations to support those affected by the Grenfell Tower tragedy. All donations made on this site will be restricted to this appeal.

    And that is just a couple...?? which in my reckoning is about 25000 each if everyone survived, don't get me wrong, they lost everything, and need all the help they can get, I do wonder what the final total will be, with the record etc. it will change their lives, indeed sadly it already has been for them.
    Last edited by TonyT; 22nd June 2017 at 15:49.

  22. #1192
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    Tony,

    The question to ask is: how many of the grateful recipients are in work and able to pay the rent ? My guess based on the fact that so few seem able to speak English is none ! You and I as taxpayers will be picking up the tab.

    Seems reasonable !

  23. #1193
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    John,

    These are people who were already in social housing, and are being rehomed in more social housing. Yes, I've seen the nonsense about them being gifted £2m flats, but it isn't true - this was always going to be social housing; it just hadn't been finished and allocated as yet. I think it 'seems reasonable' that we are rehoming people who had a home before the awful events of last Wednesday. The taxpayers were already picking up the tab. What has changed??

    Tony, the council will get the rent from them - although there is a good chance it will be a money go round, as in some cases, they will also be paying the tenants housing benefit to be able to afford it in the first place.


    Bruce

  24. #1194
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    The trouble is it might be a double edged sword Bruce, those on benefits and getting their rent paid via them etc might by be given these monies, suddenly find themselves out of that "financial safety net,"

    May has announced those that have received funds from the Goovernment will not have their benefits effected, however as shown a lot of the funds raised are not Government provided and hence will be means tested, if working on the family of 5 they may looking at £100,000 plus.

  25. #1195
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    Interestingly you have hit on the reason why there are no charities to help the destitute in the UK, keeping the fact of destitution under the radar. Its because any cash gift would be subtracted from all benefits, including housing benefit. They look at your bank account these days. The only way to help is gifts in kind - food banks. That's why they exist.

    But largely I unsurprisingly agree with Bruce. Yes the council may have to invest in more housing stock to maintain whatever status quo existed - but that's their look-out in letting the existing stock burn down, not the fault of the survivors whatever colour they are
    Last edited by Beermat; 23rd June 2017 at 08:12.
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  26. #1196
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    Hey, some consensus. Shall we build a political party around it? I think it might be popular.

  27. #1197
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    But largely I unsurprisingly agree with Bruce. Yes the council may have to invest in more housing stock to maintain whatever status quo existed - but that's their look-out in letting the existing stock burn down, not the fault of the survivors whatever colour they are
    The whole block will have been insured by the council, the problem may be if it is proved that they negligently allowed it to have a substandard cladding fitted that caused its demise.
    Would the possible way to get around the financial problems and loss of benefits be to blow it all on expensive goods that will not be seen as an asset when being assessed, or maybe a trust fund??..
    Last edited by TonyT; 23rd June 2017 at 10:56.

  28. #1198
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    Hey, some consensus. Shall we build a political party around it? I think it might be popular.
    Shame it wasn't in another London borough, then we could have become the Tooting Popular Front.

  29. #1199
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    If only it were so, Tony. I was between jobs for three months last year, and despite my savings being below the threshold I could not receive JSA or Housing to cover my rent because of money from an estranged family member held in trust for a specific family purpose.

    When I said to the chap at the council 'what if I spent it on something or gave it to another family member to look after' he said it wouldn't work, as they have access to all your bank accounts and if the money was passed out of an account after the current circumstances began to prevail not only did it still count as your asset you might be guilty of fraud in pursuing the claim while hiding an asset.

    Power to the People

    Or, if Comrades Ryan and Green are on board with the Popular Front- Power to the people as long as they are above a certain income level and white.
    Last edited by Beermat; 23rd June 2017 at 12:18.
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  30. #1200
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    That refusal must have hurt knowing your support for the undeserving underdog and here you are a very deserving militant Trot! True enough, biters get bit.

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