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Thread: Missing Malaysian Airlines B777

  1. #121
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    This is all fascinating information.
    I suspect however, there will likely be another press conference soon, denying/debunking it all or saying "cannot confirm or deny, we don't know"
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  2. #122
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    I completely agree with Bmused55. I've always been convinced this is another case of EgyptAir 990. Nothing else adds up.

  3. #123
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    Given the latest news that the plane turned west, following the way points for flights travelling to europe and middle east. Could it be that due to a massive avionics/electrical failure the autopilot automatically started flying towards one of the last few destinations that had been entered into the computer?

    In the days before the disappearence this plane flew to Dhaka and Mumbai.

    If this was a highjacking or an accident, why would you fly from one waypoint to the other in the wrong direction? The pings to satellite indicate the following

    "It supposedly headed towards a waypoint called "Vampi," which is used by planes following route N571 to the Middle East, and then onto the "Gival" waypoint, south of the Thai island of Phuket, before heading northwest towards waypoint "Igrex," which would take it over the Andaman Islands on route P628, used by airlines to fly towards Europe"

  4. #124
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    Some of the earlier reports when this incident took place reported that a flight ahead of 370 received a garbled radio message from the Malaysian airliner, and what could be made out was the pilot reporting that the "cockpit is disintegrating", which would support the idea of a catastrophic event taking place in the cockpit area first, such as a possible fire or explosion.

  5. #125
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    Egyptair 667 anyone?
    Feel free to check out my aviation pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhr_spotter/ - comments welcome

  6. #126
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    I doubt it made it to the Andaman Islands, there's a big Indian military base there presumably with a lot of radar coverage that would have detected a 777 approaching and the Indians have no reason to be complicit in this. If it was hijacked "for later use" then what do you do with the passengers and crew? There were nearly 250 of them and it would take a sizeable force to control them, that would seem to rule out a small terrorist group. If it was state sponsored then whoever did it risks feeling a lot of international displeasure if they're found out. If you wanted to steal an airplane for a 9/11 style attack someone on PPRUNE argued it would be easier to hijack a freighter as there'd be less complications.

    For those reasons I'm pretty certain that either by accident or by design it crashed somewhere in the Indian Ocean.
    Last edited by RN Phantom; 14th March 2014 at 17:08.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt-100 View Post
    Egyptair 667 anyone?

    Nope. Again, this doesn't account for there being no wreckage anywhere near the point of last contact. And why there was no distress call.

    The pilots of Egyptair 667 had time to get everyone out and notify who needed to be notified. The even had time to grab an extinguisher and attempt to tackle the fire.
    The pilots of Swissair 111 had time to get a call for help out.

    For the 777 to just go dark and disappear it would need to be an instant fireball that killed or otherwise made the crew incapable of calling for help. Egyptair 667 did not do that, despite the fire being oxygen fed, right beside the co pilot.


    Egyptair 667 is being bandied about on so many forums as proof the 777 could just erupt in flames and cause this disappearance! It's starting to get on my nerves!
    Last edited by Bmused55; 14th March 2014 at 17:59.
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buran View Post
    Given the latest news that the plane turned west, following the way points for flights travelling to europe and middle east. Could it be that due to a massive avionics/electrical failure the autopilot automatically started flying towards one of the last few destinations that had been entered into the computer?


    In the days before the disappearence this plane flew to Dhaka and Mumbai.
    Most probably a pilot manipulation trying to stir the AP to the last known waypoint.

    If there was a catastrophic mechanical failure in the cockpit, conditions might have been harsh to do it properly.

    If you are right regarding the Dhaka and Mumbai, that seems the most probable explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Buran View Post
    If this was a highjacking [...]
    5 passengers didn't show up. Baggage were removed. Something to check here.

    The plane also had to wait for the latte passengers (that didn't show-up) and the removal of the baggages.We have here a similar situation with Egyptian flight 667.

    When Boeing fixed the Ox house clamp, they might have not solve the root of the problem (surge in elec power from the battery -> heating -> gazes -> condensation -> corrosion -> integrity of fuel tank (or else)).


    Regarding the scenario of catastrophic cockpit damages + pilots killed:
    - Plane flew for hours with back crew and passenger fighting smoke and flames
    - Flame propagated trough over head structure (Egypt Air 667) or bellow passenger deck (fuel line)
    - Propagation of flames was delayed by the blowing up of front entry door (Egypt Air 667 + jet-way found at sea)
    - Crew were unable to locate transponder 2 (inexperienced or unaware) or were unable to do it due to fire&smoke
    - Flame could not be repelled anymore
    - Panic ensued -> aft emergency door opened
    - Some passenger jumping out to escape an horrific death (hence cell-phones)
    - Fire intensity exacerbated
    - Catastrophic explosion (or destruction ordered)

    I hope nobody linked to families will read the above. If so, this is only conjectural and have nearly no basis of truth.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 14th March 2014 at 21:29.

  9. #129
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    Must admit to not reading the whole thread so has anyone put this up as a possible?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
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  10. #130
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    Not sure if it has on here, but it's certainly been discussed in the media.

    I assume searches have also been done on land ?
    Last edited by Deano; 15th March 2014 at 13:19. Reason: COC RULE 14
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    - Some passenger jumping out to escape an horrific death (hence cell-phones)
    - Fire intensity exacerbated
    - Catastrophic explosion (or destruction ordered)
    I'm not aware that doors can be opened in flight.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Boyle View Post
    I'm not aware that doors can be opened in flight.
    Low alt and point 3 or lower deck cargo door (ppl might hve had a tremendous time to think about)
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 14th March 2014 at 23:45.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3bobby View Post
    Anyone remember the Greek airliner that someone forgot to reset the cabin pressurisation valves after a ground test the day before? The crew and passengers fell unconscious and the plane flew on until it ran out of fuel. it doesn't explain the transponder stopping though.
    Four posts before yours (129)....and previous to that.

    From CNN:
    "The Malaysian airliner made several significant altitude changes and altered its course more than once after losing contact with flight control, a senior U.S. official says."
    If accurate, I'm not sure how unconscious pilots could change altitude & course a couple of times.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  14. #134
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    Newsflash -- Malaysian official states that the missing 777 was hijacked:

    Last edited by Flying-A; 15th March 2014 at 05:03.

  15. #135
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    Live press conference with Malaysian PM shortly.

  16. #136
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    So MH 370 might have been flown to as far as Kazakhstan...

    This certainly sends a terrifying chill down my spine. One can hope, may I say, that the crew and passengers are kept alive to this date.
    Last edited by Deano; 15th March 2014 at 13:19. Reason: COC RULE 14

  17. #137
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    I can hardly imagine how a group of people can control 230+ souls in such a confined space as an aircraft. It seems uncanny to me that apparently no-one on board was able to send out a text-message or anything of the sort for five hours. I thought it might have been possible to pin-point the location of a mobile-phone via satelite. There must be hundreds on board that plane.

  18. #138
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    Wouldn't a well-organised hijacker have collected and incapacitated all personal communication devices from the passengers, before all else? Surely you can't track a phone with its battery taken out can you?
    Last edited by Deano; 15th March 2014 at 13:20. Reason: COC RULE 14

  19. #139
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    The big question now is did it run out of fuel and crash into the sea or remote land or was it flown tons remote airfield somewhere? The latter seems less likely as it would surely have been tracked by the countries it flew over.

  20. #140
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    Very low altitude,keeping out to sea and away from busy airfields and other restricted/controlled
    airspace ?

    If the statement about a member of the flight crew having a computer based flightsim 777 'pit
    in his home is correct, then surely he could practice his actions and route right down to his
    secret landing destination with reasonable accuracy?

    I'll bet there's some flightsim "pilots" out there doing just that right now.
    TOW,fuel burn,landing weights and LDA for various set-ups are hardly secret information surely?
    Last edited by Deano; 15th March 2014 at 13:20. Reason: COC RULE 14
    "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by benhongh View Post
    Wouldn't a well-organised hijacker have collected and incapacitated all personal communication devices from the passengers, before all else? Surely you can't track a phone with its battery taken out can you?
    How long would it take to confiscate maybe 150 - 200 mobile phones from their owners inside an airliner? 2 Minutes; 2 hours? And no-one had the chance to send a message to their loved-ones in the meantime explaining them what's happening?

  22. #142
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    I was thinking about this because it's one of the most perplexing aspects of it - however, what if the passengers didn't know that there was anything wrong? People don't txt/call from aircraft under normal circumstances anyway so if they don't suspect anything they've no reason to.

    The pilot (for example) could take the aircraft off-course, act as if there was nothing going on and the first thing the passengers would know was either (hopefully) when they landed in the wrong airport or when the aircraft was no longer in the air for any other reason. It's a bit too late to txt then.
    Last edited by Deano; 15th March 2014 at 13:20. Reason: COC RULE 14

  23. #143
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    For me one of the more bewildering aspects is why there was no GPS tracking of the aircraft - or why these doesn't seem to be a common policy. Trucking companies routinely track their $400,000 trucks with GPS - the control centre could tell you where any of their hundreds of trucks are at any one time. Why would you not do this for an aircraft?
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  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonR View Post
    I was thinking about this because it's one of the most perplexing aspects of it - however, what if the passengers didn't know that there was anything wrong? People don't txt/call from aircraft under normal circumstances anyway so if they don't suspect anything they've no reason to.

    The pilot (for example) could take the aircraft off-course, act as if there was nothing going on and the first thing the passengers would know was either (hopefully) when they landed in the wrong airport or when the aircraft was no longer in the air for any other reason. It's a bit too late to txt then.
    The aircraft took off after midnight and was well over an hour into its flight so about half of the passengers might have been asleep anyway. Even if the pilot altered course and headed in the opposite direction you'd suddenly have the moon on the other side (provided it was there). How many aware passengers that were not asleep would it take to notice that? According to news reports the aircraft changed altitute "drastically" several times. I've heard news reports that stated that several hours after the aircraft was reported missing, people tried to contact their relatives by their mobile phones - and they even rang! I believe that this has been denied since though, I'm not sure. However this gave me the vision of luggage-cases floating on the sea with a phone inside it ringing. If the aircraft was still in the air then, why didn't passengers hear their phones ringing?
    Would it be possible for changes in alitude and course of direction taking place unnoticed by 230 passengers (well at least those that were still awake) for seven hours? It would have been daylight after these seven hours had passed. Surely the aircraft would have been expected to have been over land by then. Apparently it wasn't.

  25. #145
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  26. #146
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    I can't see how it could have overflown a significant area of landmass without being seen on radar. If it was flying over countries with its transponder switched off, and if it was spotted on radar, it certainly would have been challenged to identify itself, maybe even the airforce of whichever nation it was flying over to scramble fighters to intercept and identify the aircraft it it made no response.

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongu View Post
    For me one of the more bewildering aspects is why there was no GPS tracking of the aircraft - or why these doesn't seem to be a common policy. Trucking companies routinely track their $400,000 trucks with GPS - the control centre could tell you where any of their hundreds of trucks are at any one time. Why would you not do this for an aircraft?
    I've been wondering about the very same thing. I can't believe in this day and age there is nothing like this for all airliners.

  28. #148
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    I am not even going to speculate at this stage as to who, why or when; or if this was a deliberate human act including collaboration (e.g. to get into the secure cockpit door) OR whether a fantastic, modern and very safe aircraft simply disintegrated.

    What I shall say is -
    - It should not be possible to ever switch off a modern civil aircraft transponder (military aircraft must be obviously excluded for operations and stealth reasons) - the transponder must continue operating like the FDR and CVR until flight ceases completely.
    - If you look at what I posted on this forum after AF447 - about real time, vital raw data transmissions being kept by airlines and manufacturers for ever (research and legal reasons) - It would supplement completely any lost for ever FDR and CVRs. Again very possible with all the technology that has been to hand for over 10 years.

    Given the two aspects above the powers that require to could have by now located the missing aircraft without any difficulty whether it was on tera firma on under the ocean.

    My hopes and prayers are with all the genuine pax on the flight that has been lost and their loved ones who wait for answers which aren't there to give at present.

    We wait patiently.
    Last edited by nJayM; 17th March 2014 at 11:30. Reason: Minor typos
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  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Garner View Post
    The aircraft took off after midnight and was well over an hour into its flight so about half of the passengers might have been asleep anyway. Even if the pilot altered course and headed in the opposite direction you'd suddenly have the moon on the other side (provided it was there). How many aware passengers that were not asleep would it take to notice that? According to news reports the aircraft changed altitute "drastically" several times. I've heard news reports that stated that several hours after the aircraft was reported missing, people tried to contact their relatives by their mobile phones - and they even rang! I believe that this has been denied since though, I'm not sure. However this gave me the vision of luggage-cases floating on the sea with a phone inside it ringing. If the aircraft was still in the air then, why didn't passengers hear their phones ringing?
    Would it be possible for changes in alitude and course of direction taking place unnoticed by 230 passengers (well at least those that were still awake) for seven hours? It would have been daylight after these seven hours had passed. Surely the aircraft would have been expected to have been over land by then. Apparently it wasn't.
    My wife asked the same questions to me and I also gave her pretty much this answer too.

    If,if the flightdeck crew had the idea of what they were going to do,is it possible that the entire
    flightcrew were also in on it too?

    The attendants closing window blinds,making sure everyone was comfortable and resting,
    the pilots even reassuring passengers over the tannoy that all the changes of altitude and
    direction were under instruction from ATC and that all was well ?????

    Maybe fanciful ideas,maybe not.

    I think I'd be checking out(someone probably already is)all the remote airfields capable of
    taking and hiding a 777.
    By the time the a/c had been aloft for five or six hours it would've been a lot lighter than
    TOW and from what I've seen on YouTube,a 777 can be landed and stopped
    pretty smartly when required.
    Last edited by Miggers; 15th March 2014 at 17:43.
    "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

  30. #150
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    AT LAST, the home of the chief pilot is being searched. In other words , his computer will be taken with all the information that it contains.
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.6 times!

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