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Thread: The Official F1 Thread

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul178 View Post
    Red Bull will find a way round the regulations as usual and everyone else will cry unfair.
    That's how it's always worked, ever since 1950.

    I would love to see that smirking Vettel brought down a peg or two though.
    'I can't be the one to blame for my performance... It's the others, at the moment they're just not as quick as me.'

    - Sebastian Vettel... The Pro-Brit German, general British Sitcom fan - especially Monty Python, does British accents, a genuine laugh and a bloody fantastic driver to boost. His results speaks volumes! The only driver on the grid that has a sense of humour and understands, 'Understatement'.

    I love to see the guy win. Best of luck to him!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWwV7_uL3Z0

  2. #92
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    Intriguing - what do those diametrically opposed views of Vettel tell us about him or about the two posters?

  3. #93
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    Vettel is very good at what he does but I am sure Button would have similar results in the same car.

  4. #94
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    Which bears out my long held contention about the relationship between drivers' ability and the cars' capabilities.
    Charlie

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  5. #95
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    I dont think it does Charlie. I used Button as an example because of their similar driving styles and approach to racing. They are both smooth, consistent drivers, who will get the maximum performance from a car by using engine and tyre management, working with the team on development and set up etc. Hamilton, Raikkonen and Alonso I do not doubt could have won the championship with last years Red Bull car but I do not think they would have won as many races because they are `racers` and prone to crashes, racing incidents, penalties and inconsistent qualifying.

  6. #96
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    I bow to your superior knowledge, Beny, but I still preferred the sport when it was less dominated by the minutiae of car technology. And I do still maintain that a mediocre driver in an exceptional car has a better chance of winning a race than the finest driver in a poor car. And before you remind me I accept that the same differential applied 50 years ago but there was far less emphasis on the car technology.
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  7. #97
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    F1 cars of each decade since the 1950s cannot be compared to one another. Each decade the technology was pushed to its absolute limits, within reasons of the regulations. The late '60s and '70s up until the mid '80s (even very early '90s) the technology was pushed to its furthest and even beyond in many cases which would be considered rather extreme by today's standard. By comparison, the technology today and what the engineers can produce is strictly limited, they're on a very tight budget and they're lawed by Rules of what they can do and can't do, such restrictions were unthinkable back... well actually, as little back as 2008.

    Formula 1 has always been about pushing technology and driver ability, what can be said today can easily be said in the '50s, that's why the cars have been getting faster and more advanced, simply due to technology. '50s F1 technology was as state of the art back then as '13 F1 technology was state of the art yesteryear.

    Many people say Formula 1 today is boring... It begs the question; 'When did they start watching this Sport?'... Because I seem to remember in the '80s, '90s and the '00s that the top two, or sometimes three teams, the better one was 2-3 seconds a lap faster than the team below, those guys were then 3-4-5-6+ seconds a lap faster than the teams below the rest, right from when the lights went out. On average today we're lucky, or seldom, to see the quickest guy in the field achieve anything more than a 4 second lead by time he takes his first pit stop, on many occasions the gap between the podium finishers has been around that figure or less, much less. Back then, it was common and expected to see the guy in front to lap the entire field by 1 Lap and still have 30+ seconds before the Lapped guy in 2nd crossed the line. That's unheard of these days.

    I've followed the sport for as long as I can remember from a very young age - where I could understand what was going on on a very basic scale, mid '80s. And I can count from the top of my head on both hands where there's been such close races throughout the three decades, where I can do that I can twice as many close races in two seasons of last and previous, despite Vettel being dominant.

    The racing today is much closer.
    Last edited by Deano; 7th April 2014 at 13:54. Reason: COC RULE 14

  8. #98
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    My last post should of started with `In my opinion` Charlie

    On your points EE, I agree, there is a lot less lapping now due to the field being closed up in terms of lap time. We do not see cars not making the grid because they did not qualify with in the percentage rule any more.
    Recent comments from the drivers after testing, are that the cars are much slower in the corners due to decreased down force (rule changes). This should mean increased over taking or at least increased driver input over technology. I am all for a competitive and entertaining formula but as a fan of the technology as well as the driving, I would still like to see a pure formula where a car can do 500 MPH through the Monaco tunnel .... upside down on the roof ! As opposed to a cheapened, artificial formula.

  9. #99
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    Yep, they seem pretty pessimistic about the cars. However, Lewis Hamilton stated in Jerez, where they lack in power compared to the '13 V8s they make up with Torque. With the KERS and Turbo on the V6s actually produce around 30-40 more HP than last years engine. Which is interesting... I suspect the lap times will be very close to last years or slightly quicker even. In '13, the KERS + V8s couldn't always get the power down on the track when the drivers wanted, sometimes but not always, they wasted a lot of power sometimes. The '14 F1 cars seems to have more power available to them when needed... But we'll have to wait and see in Melbourne.

    With regards to the technology, I think the FIA have took the wrong path, but it's still early days, so... I think they need to go back to the V10s or V12s... and hey, why not W16s? Why?... Look at the road cars of the likes by Audi, McLaren, Bugatti, Mercedes, Porsche, concepts by Jaguar and BMW etc... They're making these huge engines that produce insane amounts of power, have bonkers amounts of Torque yet they somehow produce less emissions than most small cars and even less than the likes of Toyota's Prius, and they use less fuel than previous engines of the same size... I honestly think bigger the way to go.

    Give the same F1 engineers say, a V12, give them the same rules and regulations but make them aware that fuel efficiency is the key, and they could make it work. I'd bet my last Quid on it they could come up with something, quite simply, stunning and ground breaking!

    10 years ago on Top Gear, Jeremy Clarkson drove an Audi A8 with a TDI V8 engine from London to Edinburgh then back again on one 20 Gallon tank of fuel. 10 years ago...
    Last edited by EELightning; 19th February 2014 at 20:07.

  10. #100
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    so Mercedes have been the ones having the problems this morning with nico stopping on track twice and has now been in the garage for two hours with 45 laps of 57 remaining on his race simulation he was meant to be doing, the Renault powered teams seem to be doing better with red-bull completeing 35 laps so far 3 more than the total of the other 5 days of testing combined so its looking up, the other Renault teams haven't had problems either so it this the start of red-bulls dominance again

  11. #101
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    Axel, it's still testing after all. Who knows what the first race will bring?
    I can see a lot of engines going bang in the first few races, this is when the first real tests will happen, the first three races will be a lot hotter than Jerez.

  12. #102
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    Indeed, testing is to iron out any issues before the season starts. If everything was fine, there's no way the teams would let the drivers open up the full potential of the cars, they wouldn't risk giving too much away. That's why when you see them out on track, they're backing off or/and not fully powering up regardless of the times. Most of the time they spend either going pretty slow using all the revs and the 8th gear (yep, 8 gears this year), or going flat out and probably going no higher than 5th or 6th gear. To work out speeds and aerodynamics they tend to use various weird and wonderful devices for measurements.

    The first real flat out test is always the first race.

  13. #103
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    In these days of access and instant communication is it going too far to suggest an element of deception at public testing to make sure nothing of significance is revealed?

  14. #104
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    Absolutely. I've been watching Sky F1's Ted Kravits' Notebook, not actually on Sky, I'm a BBC guy out of principle, but via Youtube (free) and the access he's got a hold of is pretty overwhelming. He has close up shots of the rear of the likes of the McLaren where they have a controversial system going on, and as far as I know they're not at all happy with Ted and his handy-cam, they've even declined technical discussions with Sky F1 now that some other teams are kicking up a fuss, purely because they haven't thought of it... Correction: They'll kick up a fuss if it works.

    That's quite a significant revelation so early in the year. We didn't get to see Brawn's ground breaking Double Diffuser until the first race of '09. But, with the level of access and instant communication today it's tough for teams to keep elements hidden, Ferrari are taking pretty paranoia like precautions to prevent anyone seeing too much.

    Suggesting an element of deception at the public is interesting. It's not uncommon to see teams, or shall I say; for teams to suggest they're struggling in an attempt to shake off the others. Red Bull are guilty of this and they've "indicated to have had technical issues" in past pre-season tests. Last year, they didn't run as much as the others because they were having some "technical teething issues", yet 13 race wins, a Drivers Championship and Constructers Championship later, well... They were fine. I guess they tried to make the other teams think their own cars were up to task to challenge them, there for making them not research much else and introduce improvements to the car before the season got under way. One wonders, are Red Bull attempting to pull the same stunt again?...
    Last edited by Deano; 7th April 2014 at 13:55. Reason: COC RULE 14

  15. #105
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    Thank you - bluff and double bluff in F1 confirmed. It makes you wonder why the media don't leave them to get on with it until the first race which is anyway the first true test.

  16. #106
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    Indeed. But with Sky F1 having all year round coverage they're going to be pushing for news of the updates of the cars. Sky is a money making corporation so they'd do anything to get more viewers, which they kinda need anyway because they're not getting the number of viewers they're targeting for. But yes, it takes something special away from the first race of the season. I'd like to get some information, but not too much to a point where everything will seem not new by time the first official Free Practice.

    I've just learned: To change this years Turbo/KERS V6 engines, it takes approximately 6 hours, compared to 45 minutes previously. So, have an issue in Free Practice 1 which results in an engine change, you will miss Free Practice 2. Have an engine issue in Free Practice 3 which results in an engine change, you miss Qualifying, there for you'll start at the rear of the grid or from the Pit Lane exit... Oh and, receive a Position Drop for the next race because it's a penalty for an engine change. That's... Pretty damn harsh.

    Also, teams have a maximum of 5 engines per driver for the whole season as opposed to 8 engines per driver the previous season.
    Last edited by Deano; 7th April 2014 at 13:55. Reason: COC RULE 14

  17. #107
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    Straight question. Is there too much technology and are there too many ever changing rules and regulations? From an outsider looking in I just want to see driver putting his skill against driver in cars with only enough technology to make them fast and safe. I appreciate that is not the popular view.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by EELightning View Post
    Sky is a money making corporation so they'd do anything to get more viewers, which they kinda need anyway because they're not getting the number of viewers they're targeting for.
    Good ! I hope Sky loses a ton of money and drops the F1 channel, then the BBC can pick up all of the races at a reasonable price again.
    I guess we can forgive Martin Brundell and let him come back too

  19. #109
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    The technology is the sport, the drivers are just the last in the line of the team.
    I dont think you can go wrong with your local Stock car / Banger Racing track for real racing. I need to make the effort to start doing that again this year.

  20. #110
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    Your first sentence confirms and sums up my loss of interest in the sport. Sport for me is about human physical skill and endeavour not about the supremacy of machinery.

  21. #111
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    Of course driver skill plays a part as we have discussed before but it is what it is, people driving cars. Although the drivers are some of the most physically fit of all sports people, the sport is not comparable to a purely physical sport such as athletics. I guess thats why they call it motorsport One thing I would say though is the machine the driver uses is the result of the skills and endeavours of the humans that design, build and maintain it.

    I will never, nor want to convince you to watch F1, in much the same way you will never do the same to me about cricket

  22. #112
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    Oh I do watch it from time to time but not with the same enthusiasm of a few years ago and when I never missed being at a British Grand Prix. And it is Motorsport as you rightly point out.

    Go on steel yourself and have a look at the summer game!!

  23. #113
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    I call my self a fan but have never been to a race. The last few years I have wanted to go to Spa, my favourite race track, but every year funds have had to be allocated to less interesting things. I`l get there one day before it is replaced by another `track` on a carpark in the desert ! There are few airfields and museums to visit while I am there too

    When T20 becomes T5 I might give it a go

  24. #114
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    Silverstone and Brands Hatch here and once to Zandvoort and to Paul Ricard. Always a great atmosphere.

    T5 - ah you mean Kids Cricket!!

  25. #115
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    Been to Silverstone, that was awesome. Met Damon Hill 3 times, great guy. I asked for his steering wheel the first time... He said no! In a nice way, because Williams were too tight to give anything away. When I met him the second time when he was driving for Jordan, we had a great discussion. I asked how does the Jordan 198 drive. He said it drives as good as Eddie's (Jordan) shirts look! 3rd time was at Croft with his son Josh and wife Georgie, great bunch. Georgie bought us all a Bacon Sandwich from a Burger stand. What's nice is, Damon remembered me from the previous two occasions.

  26. #116
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    With the final day of testing done we have just 10 days until the first practice in Australia so who do you want to win this year.

    For me it is lotus, Ferrari or Mercedes.

  27. #117
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    Well that gives you a choice of 6 drivers....!
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  28. #118
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    I mean team wise for the drivers I would love either kimi or Alonso to win with the other in second place.
    Last edited by Deano; 7th April 2014 at 13:55. Reason: COC RULE 14

  29. #119
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    It's all up in the air as always, for the first half a dozen races, until they get minor faults ironed out. Practice during the closed/development season, is nothing like actual racing conditions.
    So I wouldn't place any bets for a while yet young Axel.
    Jim.
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  30. #120
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    We've all tried to persuade him, Linc but he's been committed to the process. Let's hope we get a good competitive, closely raced season.

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