Key.Aero Network
Register Free

Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678910 LastLast
Results 211 to 240 of 275

Thread: French air campaign - Mali

  1. #211
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    116
    shuck, why do you ask here and in a new topic?

    Anyway, back to the topic:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmxxdFcFUw8
    - BM21 meets GBU ;
    - Pick-ups meet Tigers' firepower.

  2. #212
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2,003
    RAF Sentinel aircraft deploys to Africa

    A Sentinel aircraft from No 5 (Army Cooperation) Squadron has deployed in support of French military operations in Mali.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...loys-to-africa

  3. #213
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dijon , France
    Posts
    1,038
    Good move .
    That will help .

    Cheers .
    I say what I mean and I do what I say .

  4. #214
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,793
    Well as I said earlier Sentinel is perfect in this scenario!
    A future lost through a lack of vision!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTM4v...eature=related

  5. #215
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,793
    A future lost through a lack of vision!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTM4v...eature=related

  6. #216
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,586
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
    Well as I said earlier Sentinel is perfect in this scenario!
    What was that about retiring it in 2015 because we won't have any use for it after we withdraw from Afghanistan?

    Used in two other wars in just over two years since that announcement was made. Hmmm.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    175
    America is considering sending desperately needed refueling planes to aid the overstretched Frnech forces.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/26/wo...mali.html?_r=0

  8. #218
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    92
    The French are making use of RAF and USAF C-17's to bring the hard needed material to Mali... now, I am wondering if the French will not look into buying a few C-17s for their own, as such opertions like Serval is showing that the lack of such strategic transport is a nightmare when you want to deploy troops and material fast!

  9. #219
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    840
    I doubt it. France has ordered 50 A400M, and has mooted the possibility of accelerating deliveries. If the budget allowed it, further A400M orders have been floated as desirable, but that condition does not yet seem apparent... But further A400M orders seem more probable than C17. There is also An-124 thru SALIS (or other means), whose contract could be increased with An-124 possibly back in production, and C390 as a future C130 class transport seems reasonably likely. A330MRTT seem set to be purchased at some point soon as well. That's what all French strategic planning has come up with, and when it's achieved they will be more than well off in terms of transport. C17s would just eat into their budget for achieving these planned goals.
    Last edited by Snow Monkey; 26th January 2013 at 10:38.

  10. #220
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
    The French are making use of RAF and USAF C-17's to bring the hard needed material to Mali... now, I am wondering if the French will not look into buying a few C-17s for their own, as such opertions like Serval is showing that the lack of such strategic transport is a nightmare when you want to deploy troops and material fast!
    I don't see how they can't be looking into getting some strategic transports as its clearly a a gaping hole in thier capability, one that effectively prevents them from operating on their own when undertaking adventures in foreign lands.

  11. #221
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    175
    French colonel: France better off alone in Mali

    "In Afghanistan, you have some countries who really fight and others who do very little. For example, the German contingent and the Italian contingent don't have a combat role. There are many countries who do not want to fight, so working in the coalition is very tough," he noted.

    And

    The EU doesn't know how to wage war. It's not prepared to launch military operations of this type [Mali]," Goya said.

    http://euobserver.com/defence/118858

    This is very interesting and chimes with what many observing from the sidelines have said in that past.

  12. #222
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    116
    Quote Originally Posted by Belethor View Post
    I don't see how they can't be looking into getting some strategic transports as its clearly a a gaping hole in thier capability
    Mind you, France is looking (and was for a long time) into getting a more strategic transport capability.
    The aircraft chosen for that role is the A400M, which is several years late (and more costly than originally - and badly I must say - planned).
    France currently does suffer from a capability gap, because of the lateness of the Atlas program. As soon as the A400M is operational (first delivery later this year), there will be no more capability gap.

    Let's no get back to the start of the debate, but pick-up where we stopped, 2 pages back.
    I was saying:
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaZulu View Post
    (...)the C-17 is a superb aircraft, offering roughly twice the payload and 1.5x the range of the A400M, at a slightly superior speed.
    The question is not here IMO. The question is does France needs a "more strategic" transport than A400M for its military operations, considering all aspects: range, payload (quantity), payload (in "does that fit?" terms), speed, cost, one fleet vs multiple fleets.
    France's answer to that question is, so far, "No". You seem to think France got it wrong. Would you care to explain why?
    Last edited by AlphaZulu; 26th January 2013 at 11:26.

  13. #223
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    flying high
    Posts
    4,581
    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    What was that about retiring it in 2015 because we won't have any use for it after we withdraw from Afghanistan?

    Used in two other wars in just over two years since that announcement was made. Hmmm.
    That was one of the most stupid statements ever made anyway. I mean who could need another effective SA system?
    Member of ACIG

    an unnamed Luftwaffe officer:"Typhoon is a warm weather plane. If you want to be operational at -20°C you have to deploy the F-4F."

  14. #224
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,458
    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    What was that about retiring it in 2015 because we won't have any use for it after we withdraw from Afghanistan?

    Used in two other wars in just over two years since that announcement was made. Hmmm.
    Always sounded a ridiculous statement bourne from short term penny pinching, hopefully they have proved their worth and stay in service.

  15. #225
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by Belethor View Post
    French colonel: France better off alone in Mali

    "In Afghanistan, you have some countries who really fight and others who do very little. For example, the German contingent and the Italian contingent don't have a combat role. There are many countries who do not want to fight, so working in the coalition is very tough," he noted.

    And

    The EU doesn't know how to wage war. It's not prepared to launch military operations of this type [Mali]," Goya said.

    http://euobserver.com/defence/118858

    This is very interesting and chimes with what many observing from the sidelines have said in that past.
    This is not very intersting it is just plain BS, I don't know if it is just a sign of ignorance or the colonel is in complete bad faith.
    Anyway this officer shows no respect for the 52 Italian casulaties and the 56 German casualties who died in A-stan since the start of the operations, let alone for the military efforts of the involved Countries.

    I invite the "many oserving from the sidelines" to find better sources on that conflict.

  16. #226
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Essex UK
    Posts
    680

    How long will it before there is a real need for troop carrying helicopters and or MERT helicopters and if the need is identified who will supply them as this is possibly another area the French are lacking at this time. The UK is at this time hard pressed with the puma fleet in upgrade and Merlin and Chinook fleets hard worked in A-stan that only really leaves the poor old Navy HC4 Sea Kings but again this would be more mission creep for the UK. Who has any real capability in this area

  17. #227
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    116
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest414 View Post
    How long will it before there is a real need for troop carrying helicopters and or MERT helicopters and if the need is identified who will supply them as this is possibly another area the French are lacking at this time.
    And possibly not, thus rendering your question moot. Care to elaborate?

  18. #228
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NI, UK
    Posts
    235
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest414 View Post
    How long will it before there is a real need for troop carrying helicopters and or MERT helicopters and if the need is identified who will supply them as this is possibly another area the French are lacking at this time.
    Hmm

    Last I looked, the ALAT alone had 130 Pumas and 30 Cougars ( the latter mainly for CSAR ).

    Of course, they're not all in theatre or online but neither are the UK assets you're suggesting.

    Against that the RAF with 36 Pumas and 20 Merlins and the RN with 37 Commandos looks rather second-rate.

    They may be lacking in heavy-lift ( no Chinook equivalent ) but the French army has always been well-equipped with basic troop lift.

    On the contrary, the RAF didn't even want the Pumas and when they were foisted upon them the Army had to be content leaving them to moving high-value, time-critical assets ( e.g. MILAN or Blowpipe teams ) rather than troop assaults. There just weren't ever enough of them.

    Compare with the SAAF who found 67 Pumas insufficient for their needs!

  19. #229
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,237
    According to the french MoD and Le mamouth blog, in the last 36hrs 2 more Rafales joined in the operation that totalled about 30 sorties with air-strikes supporting SFs as well as regular army in taking Gao's airport, a brigde nearby in preparation for taking the town.

    Looks like France is now deploying about 3000 troops and is well into the North of Mali (which Hollande said wouldn't happen), so I sure hope France will know when to stop or risk a very complicated situation.

    While it's true that there is currently a capacity gap in strategic stransports, I doubt there would be an operational need to buy the C-17 given the number of A-400M on orders. That's pretty much the first time France requires help in strategic airlift due to the speed at which Islamists tried to move to the south of Mali.

    In a "normal" situation where France would have more time to prepare and anticipate an action that would require that many vehicules and equipments to be transported, then airlift might not be the cheaper option.
    There is currently one BPC heading to the North of Africa with quite a bit of equipments/vehicules etc. on board. Coupled with the A-400M (which as it has been pointed out is years behind...) for rapid projection, I believe there is more than enough to do the job.

    Heavy helicos might be useful be then again depending on the situation on the ground, CN-235 will probably do the job (probably why France is securing one airport after the other). I don't believe the operational Puma fleet is anywhere near the number quoted in a recent post, but from what I can gather quite a few transport helicopters have been transported to Mali to complement those already nearby in Niger that were used by SFs.

    BBC
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

  20. #230
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,540
    Quote Originally Posted by Glendora View Post
    This is not very intersting it is just plain BS, I don't know if it is just a sign of ignorance or the colonel is in complete bad faith.
    Anyway this officer shows no respect for the 52 Italian casulaties and the 56 German casualties who died in A-stan since the start of the operations, let alone for the military efforts of the involved Countries.

    I invite the "many oserving from the sidelines" to find better sources on that conflict.
    RETIRED colonel

  21. #231
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,540
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest414 View Post

    How long will it before there is a real need for troop carrying helicopters and or MERT helicopters and if the need is identified who will supply them as this is possibly another area the French are lacking at this time. The UK is at this time hard pressed with the puma fleet in upgrade and Merlin and Chinook fleets hard worked in A-stan that only really leaves the poor old Navy HC4 Sea Kings but again this would be more mission creep for the UK. Who has any real capability in this area
    Very funny, as Gao airport was taken last night using heliported troops... Bad timing. Any idea of french helos transport capability? I doubt it

  22. #232
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Essex UK
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    Very funny, as Gao airport was taken last night using heliported troops... Bad timing. Any idea of french helos transport capability? I doubt it
    Sorry my understanding is that Gao airport was taken by ground troops supported by air attacks and once the airport was held more troops were flown in to reinforce but nowhere I have read said that troops were helicopter in. please send me a photo or link to say they where many thanks

  23. #233
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    142
    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    RETIRED colonel
    He's still at the Ecole de Guerre.
    I can also clarify what was quoted, since I actually met him two weeks ago at a talk about... French interventions in Africa.
    Glendora, if that makes you happier he was very critical of Sarkozy as well, in the way his personal interventionism (or, micromanagement tendencies) heavily restricted the freedom of action of the French troops deployed in Kapisa after the first casualties were sustained (this after ordering them deployed over there...). Basically succumbing to the "zero death syndrome". Burdening them with restrictive rules of engagement intended to minimize the risk of taking casualties, forgetting that in war, you don't achieve anything by not taking risks.
    It's the same attitude he criticized in other countries, especially since in the ened, it didn't prevent casualties anyway.

  24. #234
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    201
    That would be quite a different concept.

    Nevertheless, as far as I know, he has not denied what euobserver.com reported. Such a denial would be much appreciated.

  25. #235
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest414 View Post
    Sorry my understanding is that Gao airport was taken by ground troops supported by air attacks and once the airport was held more troops were flown in to reinforce but nowhere I have read said that troops were helicopter in. please send me a photo or link to say they where many thanks
    The best I can find about the operation is this

    Au cours d’une manœuvre aéroterrestre conduite par les forces spéciales et appuyées par les forces aériennes, la zone de l’aéroport de Gao ainsi que le pont sur le Niger ont été saisis cette nuit.

    per http://www.defense.gouv.fr/operation...26-janvier-12h

  26. #236
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,237
    Speaking about choppers, I'm wondering whether the AS 532 Cougar Horizon Battlefield Surveillance Helicopter would have been of any utility in this conflict.

    IMO that chopper had a very short operational life, but I haven't been able to find much towards its real capabilities and such.
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

  27. #237
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,237
    French and Malian troops take Timbuktu airport

    After seizing the airport in Timbuktu overnight, French and Malian forces are preparing to retake the historic desert city. The bloodless assault on the city’s airport involved France’s first operational paratroop drop since 1978.

    [...]Reporting from the airport where he is embedded with French forces, FRANCE 24 correspondent Mathieu Mabin said that “not one shot had been fired” and that the mission had included France’s first operational paratroop drop in 35 years.
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

  28. #238
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    116
    Kolwezi'78 memories, anyone?

    La Légion saute sur Tombouctou - 2013.

    InFlight images courtesy of a (rare) French Harfang drone.

  29. #239
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,126
    Quote Originally Posted by Glendora View Post
    This is not very intersting it is just plain BS, I don't know if it is just a sign of ignorance or the colonel is in complete bad faith.
    Anyway this officer shows no respect for the 52 Italian casulaties and the 56 German casualties who died in A-stan since the start of the operations, let alone for the military efforts of the involved Countries.

    I invite the "many oserving from the sidelines" to find better sources on that conflict.

    Given the type of war being fought in Afganistan, casualties don't necessarily have to be combat troops - IEDs, green v vblue, random ambushes, bombings, occassional helicopter shotdowns, accidents.

    E.g. 52 out of 56 dead Italians:

    34 - combat related (unspecified events . e.g. doesn't indicate IED etc)
    9 - vehicle accident
    4 - illness
    1 - suicide
    2 - hear attacked
    1 - plane crash
    1 - accidental weapons discharged
    4 since then not specified.


    For Germans we have even better documentation:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...in_Afghanistan

    As you can see many accidents, IEDs, green v blue, suicide bombings and ambushes.



    Many partners are involved in support operations (training, logistics, security, development, engineering, peacekeeping) and not dedicated combat troops.

    From memory most of the German and Italian contingents are not primarily combat ones and they initially have very limiting rules of engagment. The Germans are posted in a relatively quiet part of Afghanistan too.


    Fromn what I've read I'd agree with the colonel's statements.

    In Kosovo, the US found the NATO command structure so cumbersome it ran large chunks of its missions as non-NATO missions.

    It was the same in Libya. And as stated many Coalition forces in Afghanistan are of limited utility due to politically imposed restrictions.

    Joint ops have always been problematic due to political and national interests.

    Even in WWII there was considerable tension between Britain and USA (e.g. Churchill kept pushing for an invasion of the Balkans as opposed to France, issues with command structure and whose troops participated where or were under whose command).

    In this day and age the politicians are involved in directing combat operations to a level that would make Hitler proud.

    As LBJ once said: "they wouldn't bomb an outhouse with my approval."

  30. #240
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    116
    @Tempest414: My apologies, according to this, a paradrop was used in Timbuktu partially because of the lack of troops-carrying helicopters:
    Faute d'un nombre d'hélicoptères suffisant, et suffisamment protégés, l'état-major n'a pas pu réaliser une OHP sur Tombouctou.
    (OHP stands for Opération HéliPortée).
    OTOH, the following link (below) affirms that helicopters from the Groupement aéromobile operated around Timbuktu too.

    About Gao, this indicates that a "poser d'assaut" (meaning: a Transall landing, unloading, and taking-off again in one swift move) was used on the airport, and that Tigre helicopter(s ?) operated in the area too.
    Last edited by AlphaZulu; 28th January 2013 at 22:15.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

- Part of the    Network -

KEY AERO AVIATION NEWS

MAGAZINES

AVIATION FORUM

SHOP

 

WEBSITES