Y20 thread

[Tigershark]

size comparison

[Freehand]

I, personally, need to see better photos of a completed prototype. Preferably next to something of known proportions to give it some scale.

[Tigershark]

I, personally, need to see better photos of a completed prototype. Preferably next to something of known proportions to give it some scale.

right now it is using russian engine so you can use that as a basis

[Freehand]

Looks like a mating between the two. If it works for Russia and the U.S., it should work for China...

[DarkDuke]

The Y-20 is really such big? One told me that only A400M size alike.

[Tigershark]

The Y-20 is really such big? One told me that only A400M size alike.

a400m is smaller than il-76 but can carry more, so it is not just length but girth.

[J-31 Burrito]

it is not just length but girth.

y20 is nice btw

[MSphere]

"Carry more" is too generalized.. Most cargos bulk out before they gross out.

[Tigershark]

"Carry more" is too generalized.. Most cargos bulk out before they gross out.

that is why y20 is big and wide so it can carry things il76 cant

[DarkDuke]

This scale may be reasonable

[panyimao]

[panyimao]

「The Y-20 at Yanliang on Jan. 1. Photo: GeoEye GeoEye 1」 A week after the publication of blurry photographs depicting what appears to be China’s first long-range jet transport, Danger Room has obtained satellite imagery of the new plane at an airfield in central China.

[J-31 Burrito]

what!? No DSI!?

[Sheogorath]

I lol'd.

Also, It certainly looks more to be in the range of the A400M than Il-76 or C-17

[thinkplum]

then looks like the real thing has a less swept wing.

[Deino]

first estimations ... and surely larger than 23m !

[Deino]

... come on XAC, now You can unveil that beast !

[Deino]

Until the real beast will be shown, Andrew Erickson offers a detailed and quite well written assessment of what Y-20 could offer.

http://thediplomat.com/2013/01/08/li...ight/?all=true


Besides that here a new estimation on the dimensions ... http://bbs.fyjs.cn/htm_data/27/1301/854856.html

Deino

[Trident]

Interesting - while the wing/fuselage fairing does look a bit like that on the Il-76, the wing planform seems different with a higher aspect ratio and constant taper (rather than a straight trailing edge inboard), indicating a clean-sheet wing design.

[Deino]

Bai Wei again !!!

[hallo84]

Official confirmation from the chinese


SAF expert: Y-20 outperforms Il-76

(Source: China Youth Daily) 2013-01-18

　　A news spokesman of the Ministry of National Defence (MND) of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) confirmed at the regular press conference of the MND held on December 27, 2012 that “China is independently developing its large transport aircraft to strengthen the building of air transport capability”.

　　Currently, the representative types of large transport aircraft are the U.S. Boeing C-17 Globemaster III and Russian Ilyushin Il-76, and only the U.S. and Russia in the world are able to develop large transport aircraft.

　　Named as the Y-20, China’s first large military transport aircraft carries the dream and expectation of millions of Chinese people. Compared with the Il-76MD, the Y-20 has larger volume, more reasonable fuselage space and layout, and higher engine power.

　　The Y-20 not only outperforms Il-76 but also has Chinese characteristics in supercritical airfoils, integrated avionics, cabin equipment, composite materials and their processing.

　　The performance parameters of the Y-20 are quite close to those of Russian Il-476. Operated by three aircrew members, the Y-20 has the highest load-carrying capacity of 66 tons, a fuselage length of 47 meters, a wingspan of 45 meters and a height of 15 meters, and bears the maximum take-off weight of a little more than 200 tons. It has a traditional layout and strong adaptability to take-off and landing fields, as evidenced by being able to take off and land at airstrips and carry the vast majority of combat and support vehicles of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA).

　　As to the engine, China is actively developing high-thrust turbofan engines. Currently, the Y-20 can not be equipped with such advanced engines but be fit out with the imported D-30KP2 engine temporarily. The performance of the engine is not as good as that of the PS-90A76 turbofan engine of the Il-476, therefore, the thrust of China’s Y-20 is much inferior to that of the Il-476.

　　However, the Y-20 will have significantly-improved flight performance after being equipped with China’s independently-developed high-thrust turbofan engines, thus ranking among the world’s advanced large transport aircraft.

　　Now, the Y-20 is in the phase of test and finalization. If everything goes well, the Y-20 will have to undergo a minimum-three-year-long flight test and a minimum-five-year-long comprehensive test. Therefore, 2017 is the earliest date by which the PLA Air Force will have home-made large transport aircraft.

　　By Zhang He and Li Wei respectively from the Command College of the Second Artillery Force (SAF) and the National Defense University (NDU) of the PLA

[TR1]

So they are comparing it to decades old Il-76MD?

Wow, impressive.

[hallo84]

So they are comparing it to decades old Il-76MD?

Wow, impressive.

Impressive attempt at flaming while adding no value to the discussion.

BTW when did Il-76MD get a 60+ ton payload?

[Snow Monkey]

To be fair, it also compares it Il-476 and suggests it doesn't quite reach Il-476's performance.
Il-476: new-ish engines, same fuselage, same wing aerodynamics
Y-20: bad old engines, new fuselage, new wing aerodynamics
When they get new engines, even if they are nothing amazing, it will almost certainly outperform Il-476, although Il-476 has certain characteristics that may be better for certain tasks (and vice-versa).

EDIT: Is the purported payload based on current D30 engines or is it the design payload for 'final' engines?

[TR1]

Impressive attempt at flaming while adding no value to the discussion.

BTW when did Il-76MD get a 60+ ton payload?

"　The Y-20 not only outperforms Il-76"

I am not the one flaming.
This chest-beating article on the other hand....

[Blitzo]

"　The Y-20 not only outperforms Il-76"

I am not the one flaming.
This chest-beating article on the other hand....

It's quite rare to get such relatively official specs on such an important plane still under early development.

Don't take it as an affront to the Il-76. Considering Il-76MD has been the PLA's only large transport for so many years past, the fact that they're on the way to develop a successor with greater performance should be worth pointing out (and they do mention the engine deficiency of D-30 vs PS-90)

The phrasing could be better and it's obviously aimed to instill some level of pride (it's in the china youth daily for crying out loud. "carries dreams and expectations of millions of chinese people"...), but that doesn't make the numbers any less valid at this stage.
Although it's interesting we're getting this from 2nd Arty rather than say, the air force.

EDIT: Is the purported payload based on current D30 engines or is it the design payload for 'final' engines?

That's the big question isn't it? I think Y-20 will be hard pressed to haul 66 tons with D30s, unless they significantly sacrifice short take off performance.

[Deino]

Maybe sooooon ....

http://www.cjdby.net/junbeidongtai/2...tary-2476.html

国产大运编号20001，今日继续进行地面测试
超大军事 发布于：2013-01-21 13:40:28 作者：超大军事 来源：超大论坛 阅读：1783次

本文地址：http://www.cjdby.net/junbeidongtai/2...tary-2476.html
关键词：

超级大本营军事网消息，国产大运“运-20”今天上午（1月21日）再次进行了包括试车在内的相关测试，据判断将很快进行滑行试验。运-20在进行地面测试时，机场上方一直有一架“黑鹰”直升机在做盘旋飞行，可能是在执行安保任务。超级大本营 军事网获得的消息称，首架大运的机身编号为20001。

2012年12月21日，国产大型运输机运-20于西北某测试中心进行了地面低速滑行实验，随后中国国防部新闻事务局副局长、新闻发言人杨宇军针对相关 报道表示，中国大型运输机的研发工作正在按计划推进。

运-20的出现，标志着中国航空人为之奋斗五十年的大飞机之梦可能即将实现。在该型机研制成功后，中国将成少数 几个可以研制生产大型运输机的国家，标志着中国空军力量从国土防空力量向攻守兼备的空中机动力 量的转换。

[MSphere]

The most important thing about the Y-20 is that it exists and enjoys reasonable priority within the development plan for the PLAAF. Hauling cargo is different from aerial combat, some 20% +/- performance difference is not necessarily a question of life and death. Even maximum loading capacity is not that much important as cargo haulers rarely get grossed out. I would place my bets on maximum versatility, compatibility with PLA assets and ability to land on rough airfields.

[Trident]

"　The Y-20 not only outperforms Il-76"

I am not the one flaming.
This chest-beating article on the other hand....

Apart from the suspiciously high payload weight, there is nothing unreasonable in that article at all - as mentioned, it even acknowledges the engine issue.

Don't blame the Y-20 for the Il-476 being such a lemon, that is Russia's fault and Russia's fault alone. I can only hope they will learn their lesson - doing more with less resources is key if Russia wants to stay abreast of China in the long run and underperforming, politically-driven projects like the Il-476 do not fit that description.

[Deino]

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