RuAF News and Development Thread part 11

[MSphere]

Peru's MiG-29 are upgraded 9.13/9.13SEs and UBs (which they bought in the nineties). Apparently they are at a standard somewhat similar to SM, full A-A and A-G PGM capability, IFR , modernized radar etc.( two-seaters have CHFL strakes ahead of fins like the 9.53 UBs, plus IFR)

Cockpit is SMT standard with two MFI-10-7 LCDs. Rumors about radar are contradictory, it's either an N019M type upgrade or N010ME Zhuk-ME slotted type.

[DrPepper]

[QUOTE=a89;1973619]There are no plans to acquire MiG-29 so far. I thought those SMT rejected by Algeria were a good option for many countries, as RSK MiG could not afford to have another scandal. By the way, I did not know about the 250 million $ deposit.


I don't understand what you are trying to say, how can Peru have no plans to acquire them when they have already been delivered????

[killerbean]

Interesting but seems a bit optimistic:

- Indian Navy - yes, very probable if carrier plans proceed. Remember though that Rafale also comes in carrier capable version.

More Mig-29k would only be possible if (1) IAC 2 turns out to be STOBAR - which is highly unlikely. IN seems to be set for going in for CATOBAR.

or if (2) N-LCA fails to materialize.

[Tu 160]

How many Ka 52 were manufactured in 2012 or delivered to Russian VVS in 2012? How many $ is the Russian VVS paying for a single Ka 52, around $16 million per unit?

[TR1]

A new year, a new Mi-26T....

[haavarla]

Do we have any specs on the newly build Mi-26?
Have they manage to reduce empty weight by using lighter airframe materials?

[Berkut]

Well, this one has nothing to do with RuAF or Russian MoD.

[calimero]

Mi-26T is for the civilian and export market, right? The latest batch for the Russian VVS doesn't seem to be a later model such as the Mi-26M (was it ever build?) but I can't believe that they get the same model that entered service now 30 years ago.

[Berkut]

Have they manage to reduce empty weight by using lighter airframe materials?

Yes because Mi-26 is well known for being underpowered.



No big changes are done as far as i know. Normal production evolution i guess, but nothing beyond that.

[Tu 160]

Its avionics were updated and even at 30 years old the Mi 26 is still way better than anything the west or US has and Mi 26 is the leader in its class by a wide margin still.
Also how many Ka 52 were manufactured in 2012 or delivered to Russian VVS in 2012? How many $ is the Russian VVS paying for a single Ka 52, around $16 million per unit?

Mi-26T is for the civilian and export market, right? The latest batch for the Russian VVS doesn't seem to be a later model such as the Mi-26M (was it ever build?) but I can't believe that they get the same model that entered service now 30 years ago.

[calimero]

Nobody is comparing the Mi-26 to a Western design. I just find it odd that -apparently- the 30-year-old model was ordered instead of a more modern version with more modern avionics etc., Mi-26A, Mi-26M or whatever.

[haavarla]

What??
I imagine the new build Mi-26 has something of a glass cockpit, atleast?

[TR1]

Nobody is comparing the Mi-26 to a Western design. I just find it odd that -apparently- the 30-year-old model was ordered instead of a more modern version with more modern avionics etc., Mi-26A, Mi-26M or whatever.

Does the job + price + speed of delivery.

Don't worry, MOD will order Mi-26T2 variant after 2013 as well.

[Tu 160]

So nobody on this forum knows answers to my questions on Ka 52???

[MSphere]

Nobody is comparing the Mi-26 to a Western design. I just find it odd that -apparently- the 30-year-old model was ordered instead of a more modern version with more modern avionics etc., Mi-26A, Mi-26M or whatever.

The Mi-26T has one function - go to A, lift the cargo, deliver to B, drop. Exactly what avionics do you really need for that?

[MSphere]

So nobody on this forum knows answers to my questions on Ka 52???

Ka-52 costs around 30% more than Mi-28N - something over 800 million RUB

[Berkut]

What??
I imagine the new build Mi-26 has something of a glass cockpit, atleast?

No of course.

Good question about Ka-52's, on top of my head i can only recall seeing one this year. (new that is)

[Tu 160]

Isn't the current production rate of Ka 52 somewhere from 10-12 per year based on production figures from 2011? Where are all those Ka 52 made in 2012,haven't been much news or pictures of them unlike the very well documented Su 34 deliveries?

No of course.

Good question about Ka-52's, on top of my head i can only recall seeing one this year. (new that is)

[Tu 160]

Whats the $ unit cost amount for both the Ka52 and Mi28N?
Is there any plans to put radar on top of rotor on future serial produced Mi28N?

Ka-52 costs around 30% more than Mi-28N - something over 800 million RUB

[MSphere]

Whats the $ unit cost amount for both the Ka52 and Mi28N?
Is there any plans to put radar on top of rotor on future serial produced Mi28N?

Ka-52 around $27-28mil, Mi-28N around $20mil (I suspect without radar).
AFAIK, the radar works but suffers from poor MTBF due to excessive vibrations.

[TR1]

Supposedly they have made progress on the radar mast for the Mi-28N.
Not sure if we will see it before the Mi-28NM though.

[Tu 160]

Those are still very good prices for these 2 excellent attack helos and westen/US helos are much more overpriced.It is a good idea to produce both as is being done as combined output of Kamov and Mill will replenish Russian Army avaition twice as fast.
Is Mil likely to fix the vibration issue anytime soon and is it likely future production Mi28 will finally get the mast radar?

Also how many Mi28N were made or delivered to Russian VVS in 2012?

Ka-52 around $27-28mil, Mi-28N around $20mil (I suspect without radar).
AFAIK, the radar works but suffers from poor MTBF due to excessive vibrations.

[Berkut]

I don't know, 27 mil USD sounds like awfully a lot. If i am not horribly mistaken AH-64 is around that, if not less.

[MSphere]

I don't know, 27 mil USD sounds like awfully a lot. If i am not horribly mistaken AH-64 is around that, if not less.

Just like with aircraft, the unit prices are very hard to compare until you know exactly what is included. The 2012 unit cost of a new AH-64D Block III was something over $32mil pure flyaway. The figure comparable to the Ka-52's quote would be around $52-60mil, however.

As a rule of thumb, Russian designs are still ca 40% cheaper than US designs in the same class.

[MSphere]

Those are still very good prices for these 2 excellent attack helos and westen/US helos are much more overpriced.It is a good idea to produce both as is being done as combined output of Kamov and Mill will replenish Russian Army avaition twice as fast.
Is Mil likely to fix the vibration issue anytime soon and is it likely future production Mi28 will finally get the mast radar?

Also how many Mi28N were made or delivered to Russian VVS in 2012?

Despite having been described as a much more conservative and "proven" concept, the Mi-28N has not been very praised while the more complex Kamov has shown a quite remarkable reliability thus far.

The low cost of the Havoc results from the fact that it shares quite much with the Hind family while the only things the Alligator has in common with the Mi-24/Mi-35 are engines and tyres.

I don't think the Mi-28N will get the radar but the further upgrade called Mi-28NM might.

[Tu 160]

Any time estimate when the Mi 28NM will enter production?
What is the quantity of Ka 52 that were manufactured in 2012 and delivered to Russian VVS and what is the quantity of Mi 28N manufactured in 2012 and delivered also,seems to be an absence of news on this?

Despite having been described as a much more conservative and "proven" concept, the Mi-28N has not been very praised while the more complex Kamov has shown a quite remarkable reliability thus far.

The low cost of the Havoc results from the fact that it shares quite much with the Hind family while the only things the Alligator has in common with the Mi-24/Mi-35 are engines and tyres.

I don't think the Mi-28N will get the radar but the further upgrade called Mi-28NM might.

[TR1]

What does the Mi-28 share with the Hind aside from the engines?
Both Ka-52 and Mi-28 use VK-2500 now..I guess you could argue the modernized Hind has a similar rotor-arrangement to Mi-28, but it ws modernized based on the Mi-28, so it is not a matter of Mi-28 similarity with Mi-24.

[MSphere]

What does the Mi-28 share with the Hind aside from the engines?
Both Ka-52 and Mi-28 use VK-2500 now..I guess you could argue the modernized Hind has a similar rotor-arrangement to Mi-28, but it ws modernized based on the Mi-28, so it is not a matter of Mi-28 similarity with Mi-24.

Main gearbox, transmission units, VR-29 and HR-29 gearboxes by Reduktor-PM are all common with Mi-35M and Mi-17V-5 or -7 and they are directly derived from Mi-24. Then there is a number of other stuff like oil coolers, even cockpit displays and part of the avionics.

[TR1]

All those upgrades were fielded on the Mi-24 well after the Mi-28 passed testing...The Mi-35M exists because they took items off the Mi-28 and applied them to the Mi-24.

[calimero]

The Mi-26T has one function - go to A, lift the cargo, deliver to B, drop. Exactly what avionics do you really need for that?

I don't know but I suppose there must be a reason since the A and M models got new avionics.