U.S.A Second Amendment re-think

[ZRX61]

It might be here, I'm still looking:
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-fa...6_1_screen.pdf

[Lincoln 7]

.

Interestingly in the U.K there used to be a quite high incidence of farmers taking their own lives with shotguns - often under stress due to financial pressure . Whether that suicide level would have bee so high if people didn't have access to a means
that was judged to be quick and easy remains to be seen.

From 30 yrs of being an Officer, and living in a farming community, where just about every farmer has a gun, I can say without fear of contradiction,, that I dealt with more suicides by shotguns by farmers, than any other weapon. The worst one suprisingly was caused by a relativly small 410, in which the farmer shot himself in the head, not a joking matter, but there was blood on every wall and the ceiling, not a pretty sight, or dealing with it also involved collecting every bit of body parts, for the Pathologist to carry out the P.M.
So yes David, I have to agree on that one.
He left a wife, and two small kids, the farm had ruined him, the Banks refused to help him to get back on his feet, and he felt no doubt, that suicide was the only way out.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

[Moggy C]

When searching through Gunfacts you should remember that it is scarcely an unbiased source of factual information.

Moggy

[ZRX61]

& the exact same can be said for every report that disagrees with what they post... but Gun Facts lists all their sources...

[TonyT]

The second gives them the right to bear arms, but most states bar a very few ban automatic weapons, whilst still allowing the right to bear arms, therefore I can not see there being a problem to making the law stricter and banning of Assault weapons, you're still not removing the right to bear arms if all that members of the public were allowed to own were .22 pistols...
However.... It would be like trying to close the gate after the herd has already bolted..
You would never be able to remove the weapons off the street, there are just to many of them, it is sadly a knee jerk reaction to the tragic events, similar to what the UK went through after Hungerford, but that simply removed weapons from legally and regulated owners, those that wished to use them for crime still can get hold of them one way or the other. Another UK one was aimed at pump action shotguns but that was shown to be a farce as the owner of a normal two shot weapon could load and fire the equivalent load faster than that of a man with a pump action.

[ZRX61]

It turns out that 0.00034% of all guns in the US are used to commit crimes..... so 99.99966% of them aren't a problem...

[ZRX61]

There's been another one:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man-...th-one-bullet/

..ended a bit differently though...

[charliehunt]

It turns out that 0.00034% of all guns in the US are used to commit crimes..... so 99.99966% of them aren't a problem...

I'll bet someone challenges that stat, but at face value it is very revealing and puts the argument into perspective, which is what is needed.

[kev35]

There's been another one:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man-...th-one-bullet/

..ended a bit differently though...

Thankfully it did.

However, reading the article reveals that things could have been a lot worse prior to the intervention of the off duty Officer if it hadn't been for the ineptitude of the gunman. The article suggests that around 30 shots were fired, four of those by the Officer concerned, one of which hit the gunman and brought the incident to a close. The article states that the gunman intended to use the weapon in the restaurant but it jammed. When he got it working he fired 26 times, of which only one bullet found a victim. If he'd been a better shot America could have been looking at another massacre prior to the involvement of the off duty Officer.

Fortunately, it ended the way it did. Whether America considers tighter gun control or leaves things as they are now is, as others have said, for America to decide. I'm just personally glad for all concerned that the situation ended as well as it did.

Regards,

kev35

[Lincoln 7]

On Sky TV Today, a gun dealer in the States, told an interviewer,that sales of handguns, and assault guns has risen since the shooting of the children.
Will they never learn?.

Jim
Lincoln .7

[ZRX61]

Fortunately, it ended the way it did. Whether America considers tighter gun control or leaves things as they are now is, as others have said, for America to decide. I'm just personally glad for all concerned that the situation ended as well as it did.

Regards,

kev35

It ended better than the case in NY a few weeks back where some guy shot his boss. He didn't shoot at anyone else, just had a score to settle...

Then New Yorks finest showed up, promptly shot him... & 10 other people...

[Mr Creosote]

It turns out that 0.00034% of all guns in the US are used to commit crimes..... so 99.99966% of them aren't a problem...

That will be a great comfort to the people of Newtown, Connecticut.

[charliehunt]

Statistics are not designed to comfort or discomfort. They are statistics.

[Moggy C]

Mr C's point remains valid

Moggy

[spitfireman]

Just picked up on this, NRA response, please tell me its a sick joke.

http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2012/12/1...s-insists-nra/

[charliehunt]

Newsbiscuit is a spoof news outlet, like Onion News!!

[Moggy C]

The NRA must be feeling a bit miffed having pumped $13 million into the Republican campaign to unseat Obama and failing.

Their news conference, responding to the killings, is tomorrow (Friday) assuming the world doesn't end.

Moggy

[Mr Creosote]

On Sky TV Today, a gun dealer in the States, told an interviewer,that sales of handguns, and assault guns has risen since the shooting of the children.
Will they never learn?.

Jim
Lincoln .7

No.

[charliehunt]

As they are worth about $250 million it won't have made much of a dent.....I am sure there will have been others equally "miffed".....it will be interesting to hear what they say tomorrow.

[spitfireman]

Newsbiscuit is a spoof news outlet, like Onion News!!

ahhh sick joke..........bit quick

[skeeler]

So here's some more stats to get people thinking:-

USA 2009 (latest year for which full figures published) - number of Homicides committed with Firearms = 11,493 (Official US Govt. Statistics source
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm.)

Operation Iraqi Freedom - Total Coalition military fatalities 2003-2012 = 4804 (http://icasualties.org/Iraq/index.aspx)

Operation Enduring Freedom - Afghanistan - Total Coalition Military Fatalities 2001 - 2012 = 3243 (source http://icasualties.org/oef/)

Conclusion = In USA in 1 year there were 1.42 gun related Homicides for every Coalition Military fatality over 11 years in both the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns!

[paul178]

So what does that prove is America at war with itself?

[Lincoln 7]

Re Thread 111.

I am sure the parents of those murdered children would be interested in those Stats............NOT.

Looking at yet another U.S.A. program on Sky, (Again!!) and saw an M34 change hands between two men, the 16" barelled one, in Lousiana, where you can walk into a gun shop/dealers, and buy an Assault rifle,and any other weapon, without even a background check.

I often watch many gun related programs made in the USA,and am never ceased to be amazed, at just how easy it is to BUY a weapon.
I think LAX is the word that springs to mind.

Jim.
Lincoln .7

[charliehunt]

I am sure the parents of those murdered children would be interested in those Stats
Jim.
Lincoln .7

No one who has suffered loss or pain will be interested in statistics relating to their suffering. But that does not make the statistics any less relevant.

[Lincoln 7]

Statistics can be manipulated to what you want them to read.
Deaths however unfortunately' can't.

Jim.

Lincoln .7

[charliehunt]

No, statistics are statistics. People might choose to distort their interpretation.

[Lincoln 7]

It's on here somewhere in the past Charlie,(As I posted it) when I was a Copper, the C.P.S. were told to "Lose" 17.5% of cases, to make the detection "Statistics" look better.

Jim.
Lincoln .7

[charliehunt]

That's simply falsifying figures to produce false statistics. Not the same as manipulating a statistic. If 110 children out of 200 pass an exam that is 55%. That is a statistic. If someone falsifies the figures to make it 130 it is the evidence which has been manipulated not the statistic.

[charliehunt]

http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf

[Moggy C]

Well, there we have it.

It's all the fault of the computer game industry, and all we need is more guns, ideally in schools.

Can't stop, I'm off to buy my copy of "Primary Schools Blast-Down for PC"

Moggy