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Thread: U.S.A Second Amendment re-think

  1. #481
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    Some of my friends last night:
    Quote Originally Posted by c10 View Post
    Yesterday was a normal ZRX guy night out for steaks / beer hosted by JM1 . When Txcanuck , and I arrived we informed of the burglary of JM1's home .
    JM1 saw the perp , and even gave chase . Bad guy got away with Laptop , Springfield custom 1911 .45 acp , and a I Pad .
    The I pad was used to track the bad guy . Texas City Police were not much help in the beginning . So all evening JM1 was watching the GPS . The
    bad guy comes down the street 50 yards from the home .

    I walked out of the garage to look . There he is . Its on foot chase through the streets in the dark / night . I lose him as he rounded a corner . Bad guy was fast , and I'm not a long distance sprinter anymore . However I think I know were he ducked into for hiding . I wait a bit , and here comes Eddie Lane
    on his ZRX . I jump on tell to make the block , and be ready for me to jump off if hes going slow enough .

    We get back to JM1's place ( now 5 to 7 minutes have passed ) to find out the I pad still shows less than 300 feet from home . I said I know where he is .
    Eddie , Paul , h2o , and I set off . JM1 gives me a nice bright Streamlight . Eddie gos to the dead end were pad is close to . I came in from behind on the other street between to homes were I lost him before . I make it nearly to eddie , and no bad guy ? F*&( is what I'm thinking .

    Then out of the bushes jumps bad guy holiding a AK 47 on me saying he will blow my head off . I keep him blinded with the light , eddie turn on his high beam off the rex as well . ( I did not know were Paul or Dennis was at this time ) Bad guy says to take light off him , I wont it makes me a harder target in wide open area infront of these two homes with no tree to hide behind .

    I thought fast / noticed the AK looked broken @ the barrel . So I thought air soft or paint ball FAKE AK . I looked behind him , and yelled PAUL SHOOT HIM ! ( Paul was not there I knew this ) It was my bluff to close distance ( approx 12' ) to grab the barrel of the AK .
    Bad guy looked behind him , gun barrel raised up now , and I sprinted for the guy .

    He took off running with the AK . I was hot on his ass , eddie bolted on the ZRX to the next block to try and catch him as well .
    Chase lasted over 1/4 mile through yards , over fences , through bushes . I gave up at the last big back yard due to when he went over the fence , and I did as well I lost him in the JUNGLE of a huge back yard . So not wanting to be jumped , and alone I came out .

    Police arrived and we all did some back tracking . Found he was running in Nike sandals he lost in first yard , recovered back pack with computers / gun belonging to JM1 , Police , and I retraced my chase to find the AK 47 .

    The AK 47 was REAL , and loaded . Stolen a week earlier from another homeowner . Paul was actually behind me / to my right by 40 yards , and had a 9mm on him ready .

    Police dog was brought out , but after 2 hours no bad guy . Do have lots of prints though I knew he was armed most likely with the 1911 , but counted on he wouldn't know how to use it . It was going to be a hell of a fight had I caught him .

    Last thing ever expected was AK 47 . Were all lucky to be alive today . Police let me snap a few pics of the AK on my phone . Ill try to get them up later today.

    After further review of my pictures of the AK , and watching /learning how a AK works the SAFETY was off or in the down position .
    I e mailed these pictures to a friend as I can not down load them correctly off my phone .
    Notice how they have no problem chasing down a guy with an AK47 & a 1911...(altho some of them were armed, C10 wasn't) but don't want their wives to find out what they did
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    I am sorry but you cannot possibly say that; as you say yourself gun-crime depends on the way society operates.

    What you seem to be saying is that gun-control has no effect on gun-crime but that is impossible to say unless you compare two identical countries (or states) with different gun-control policies.

    I would maintain that in any of the countries that have been mentioned, the US, the UK, Chile, Switzerland or Mexico, that if you relaxed gun-control there would be an increase in gun-crime and if you tightened gun-control there would be a reduction in gun-crime.

    I think that is a more reliable model than simply making selected gun-control / gun-crime comparisons.
    I can possibly say that, as I just did.
    It seems possibilities are an issue for you?
    Perhaps a broadening of the mind would be useful at times.

    You want to relax gun control laws in Chile and Switzerland?

    Are you actually reading the figures correctly?

    They have well above average gun ownership, and well below average gun crime.

    In Chiles case once again, they have a firearm ownership rate twice that of Britain, with gun crime that is 3 times lower.

    They have a lower gun crime rate than Japan, who has one of the strictest gun control legislations on the planet.

    They have one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world, in a firearm-ownership permissive environment.
    How would banning legally owned firearms from licenced owners prevent criminals from carrying on indulging themselves there?

    I presented those figures so some on the thread may perhaps re-examine what they percieve to be their overly righteous truths.
    You're quick to say that certain things I say are impossible, then quickly slap in your own opinions as if these are set in stone truths.

    They are not.

    It is rarely as simple as people think.

    I suspect you prefer the Britain of some of the worlds highest CCTV camera monitoring, and the seeking of banning certain types of knives.
    As if a bread knife were any less lethal.

    Britain has always liked intrusive government.
    Others may not.

    It's that simple.

    You are entitled to have the society you want, just as others choose.

    My last post on the matter, as I've realised long time ago that depending on the society, people think their way of doing things is generally correct. You cannot change peoples opinions who think thusly.
    It's a pointless argument really.
    Last edited by wilhelm; 26th January 2013 at 19:32.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    Notice how they have no problem chasing down a guy with an AK47...
    ...a stolen legally-held AK-47 in the hands of a bad guy.....surely not! :diablo:
    WA$.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    ...a stolen legally-held AK-47 in the hands of a bad guy.....surely not! :diablo:
    They haven't actually established it it was a full auto AK47 or a semi auto clone. Good thing it didn't happen in the UK, all my friends would be in hospital suffering from stab wounds... & the guy on the ZRX would have speeding & reckless driving tickets...
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  5. #485
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    Rick, I don't agree with your comments re the chap with the stolen AK47, here in the U.K. whether he was caught or cornered, be it a "Real AK47" or an imitation, if he was running wild, and brandishing the weapon, he may well have been shot by one of our Sniper Police Officers, but a warning may well be given to the Perp prior to.
    If he still didn't surrender the weapon, well, I guess he would have what was coming to him.
    Jim.
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  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    They haven't actually established it it was a full auto AK47 or a semi auto clone. Good thing it didn't happen in the UK, all my friends would be in hospital suffering from stab wounds...
    But it was a legally-held weapon that had ended-up in the hands of a ‘bad guy’ and was being carried on a criminal enterprise?

    While I respect the courage of your friends in trying to catch this guy, it seems to me, there was nothing to prevent them being shot, and possibly killed, other than the fact that the ‘bad guy’ didn’t pull the trigger.

    Statistically (I know how fond we all are of statistics ) your friends were more likely to be wounded or killed in the US than in the UK.
    WA$.

  7. #487
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    10 out of 10 Warren, statisticly speaking, obviously.
    Jim.
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  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilhelm View Post
    Perhaps a broadening of the mind would be useful at times.

    In Chiles case once again, they have a firearm ownership rate twice that of Britain, with gun crime that is 3 times lower.

    They have a lower gun crime rate than Japan, who has one of the strictest gun control legislations on the planet.

    I presented those figures so some on the thread may perhaps re-examine what they percieve to be their overly righteous truths...
    Where did you get your figures?

    Here are some figures that were published in ‘the Guardian’ they are from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...orld-list#data

    Japan: guns per 100,000=600 / homicides per 100,000=0.01 (total: 11)

    England & Wales: guns per 100,000=6,200 / homicides per 100,000=0.07 (total: 41)

    Switzerland: guns per 100,000=45,700 / homicides per 100,000=0.77 (total: 57)

    Chile: guns per 100,000=10,700 / homicides per 100,000=2.16 (total: 353)

    United States: guns per 100,000=88,800 / homicides per 100,000=2.97 (total: 9,146)


    These figures would seem to indicate that although Chile has a gun ownership rate that is less than twice that in England & Wales the gun homicide rate is over thirty times that in England & Wales.

    These figures also seem to indicate that the gun homicide rate in Chile is over two-hundred times that in Japan.

    Right, I’ve broadened my mind.....do you still maintain that gun-control doesn’t work?
    WA$.

  9. #489
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    Warreen, Thanks for those figures, they certainly throw a new light on all the Statistics we have had so far.
    I.M.H.O. tighter gun control, as I first stated, when I opened this Post must surely mean that a "Slimming down" of the 2nd, would do no harm.
    I see any murder as pointless, unless it in defence of yourself whilst in your home, but if you own weapons, you still need just one.not an arsenal.
    Shooting anyone, say during an argument, is easier settled by shooting the Perp dead, why waste energy trying to reason with them?.I honestly think this is what some in other Countries find the easiest way out.
    I still say that it is far to easy to obtain a weapon in the USA.
    Lets hope Obama can sort it out.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the NRA had Bumper stickers stating, "The NRA Rules.O.K." They certainly seem to have the the upper hand as far as Congress is concerned.
    Just my opinion.
    Jim.
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    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

  10. #490
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    A word of caution.....because there are lies, damn lies and statistics!

    Although these figures come from the United Nations, so are probably fairly reliable, they are still very basic figures that may mask some other factors. For example the figures for gun-ownership only show the total number of guns against population but do not take account of the fact that some owners may have (many) more than one gun. This may be particularly true of the wealthier nations such as the United States (as some of our forum members have demonstrated :diablo; this may skew the figures slightly such as when comparing the homicide rates of the United States.

    The, surprisingly low, homicide rate of Switzerland is also interesting, certainly if all Swiss males do national service and are issued with a (fully-automatic?) assault-rifle to keep in their home afterwards (and I don’t know if this is actually the case or if these are counted as ‘civilian’ weapons in these figures – anybody?). The numbers seem about right (46% of population) but possibly many of these Swiss men lock the assault-rifle in the basement after their national service and never touch it again. Also Switzerland is a highly regulated country; it has the sort of government control that those supporting the Second Amendment would probably not tolerate.

    Anyway those are the figures I found late last night; they took me about thirty seconds to find on Google but I think that they are more reliable than some of the other ‘facts’ being posted on this thread.

    As for ‘tightening’ the gun-control laws in the United States, I do not see that a ban on ‘assault-weapons’ or larger magazines would have prevented any of the recent tragedies so long as semi-automatic pistols were still available.

    The Second Amendment? While I don’t think it is a good argument for gun ownership I cannot see any US government ever changing it, however, let me say this...

    ...if there was no Second Amendment and the government did turn ‘tyrannical’, do you think the citizens of the United States would not rise-up against that government just because they were not given that ‘right’ by a piece of paper?
    WA$.

  11. #491
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    CD.
    Warren, If the public were to rise up in arms against the Government,for some reason, and it would have to be a very good reason, then the Troops, and the National Guard would, no doubt be called in, and with their superior weponry, would soon quell any uprising. They, as we do, moan about things each Government does, but do very little about it, as for taking up arms against the USAs Government, never happen in a million years.They would soon be overpowered, so this begs the question, why do they need to own so many guns?. As I understand it, the 2nd allowed the public to defend themselves against an intern of any existing Government.
    Jim.
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  12. #492
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    The personnel United States Armed Forces, National Guard and Police do not come from any particular ethnic group, political party, religion or tribe so I wonder whether they could be relied upon to support a ‘tyrannical’ government. Historically this has not been the case in other authoritarian states such as Syria, Iraq, Egypt or Libya.

    Still, as I’ve said, why does a piece of paper like the Second Amendment make any difference? Wouldn’t the first act of any ‘tyrannical’ government be to repeal the Second Amendment...

    ...wouldn’t that prevent any overthrow by an armed militia?
    WA$.

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincoln 7 View Post
    Rick, I don't agree with your comments re the chap with the stolen AK47, here in the U.K. whether he was caught or cornered, be it a "Real AK47" or an imitation, if he was running wild, and brandishing the weapon, he may well have been shot by one of our Sniper Police Officers, but a warning may well be given to the Perp prior to.
    If he still didn't surrender the weapon, well, I guess he would have what was coming to him.
    Jim.
    Lincoln .7
    Really? So the entire UK is covered by police snipers? No need to call 999 & wait an hour for them to show up? They are "just right there when you need them"?



    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Statistically (I know how fond we all are of statistics ) your friends were more likely to be wounded or killed in the US than in the UK.
    Nice twist.... They were more likely to be wounded *by a bullet* in the US, but were more likely to have been wounded in the UK....

    Last edited by ZRX61; 27th January 2013 at 18:40.
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  14. #494
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    Rick, We no longer live in the dark ages, I know for a fact that my old force has several Instant Response Beemer estate cars with weapons in a locked safe, within the car, to be opened by command of Ops room. And, Holy Moses, we even have one of things that has the prop ON TOP of it on standby, also we are boundered by 3 Forces, each even better equipped than my old Force, obviously we have armed Police in high risk areas, and we have them at Heathrow.
    So you see Rick, we don't need every Cop armed, poncing around flirting guns as they do over there, and don't say they don't, as I have had PERSONAL experience they do.You should know, your an Ex pat, and know full well we are not so gung ho when it comes to police drawing weapons, as they are in the States.
    Jim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    Nice twist.... They were more likely to be wounded *by a bullet* in the US, but were more likely to have been wounded in the UK....
    How do you come to that conclusion?

    The overall homicide rate in the United States is 4.8 per 100,000 of population; the overall homicide rate in the United Kingdom is 1.2 per 100,000 of population. I cannot quickly find any figures for wounding (or homicide) by knife but I’d guess that the figures for wounding generally would track those rates for homicide. Unless you have some figures that show differently.

    Again these figures are from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime.
    WA$.

  16. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    How do you come to that conclusion?

    The overall homicide rate in the United States is 4.8 per 100,000 of population; the overall homicide rate in the United Kingdom is 1.2 per 100,000 of population.

    Again these figures are from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime.
    And we all know you can't argue figures especialy if they come from the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime, unless anyone in the States can prove otherwise,

    Jim.
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  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincoln 7 View Post
    Rick, We no longer live in the dark ages, I know for a fact that my old force has several Instant Response Beemer estate cars with weapons in a locked safe, within the car, to be opened by command of Ops room. And, Holy Moses, we even have one of things that has the prop ON TOP of it on standby, also we are boundered by 3 Forces, each even better equipped than my old Force, obviously we have armed Police in high risk areas, and we have them at Heathrow.
    So you see Rick, we don't need every Cop armed, poncing around flirting guns as they do over there, and don't say they don't, as I have had PERSONAL experience they do.You should know, your an Ex pat, and know full well we are not so gung ho when it comes to police drawing weapons, as they are in the States.
    Jim.
    Lincoln .7

    So you're saying that when seconds count, the guys you used to work with were probably 30 minutes away?

    But we're all ok now, they aren't AW's anymore, now they are PDW's:
    http://drudgegae.iavian.net/r?hop=ht...nal-defense%2F

    Citing a General Service Administration (GSA) request for proposal (RFP), Steve McGough of RadioViceOnline.com reports that DHS is asking for the 7,000 “select-fire” firearms because they are “suitable for personal defense use in close quarters.” The term select-fire means the weapon can be both semi-automatic and automatic. Civilians are prohibited from obtaining these kinds of weapons.

    The RFP describes the firearm as “Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) – 5.56x45mm NATO, select-fire firearm suitable for personal defense use in close quarters and/or when maximum concealment is required.” Additionally, DHS is asking for 30 round magazines that “have a capacity to hold thirty (30) 5.56x45mm NATO rounds.”
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    How do you come to that conclusion?

    The overall homicide rate in the United States is 4.8 per 100,000 of population; the overall homicide rate in the United Kingdom is 1.2 per 100,000 of population. I cannot quickly find any figures for wounding (or homicide) by knife but I’d guess that the figures for wounding generally would track those rates for homicide. Unless you have some figures that show differently.

    Again these figures are from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime.
    You're talking homicide, I'm talking about crimes of violence, the UK just about leads the world, its certainly WAY ahead of the US.... Now you've banned guns & knives, I guess next on the list will be sharp words & glaring at people.

    Talking of which, when my kid started to learn geometry at school (in the US) I found out that compasses are banned because they have sharp pointy bits. Not sure how they teach drafting/draughting in Elementary & High School over here, maybe they do it without having to draw circles etc. Same problem in Biology when it comes to dissecting things, they use blunt plastic knives...
    Last edited by ZRX61; 28th January 2013 at 04:41.
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    You're talking homicide, I'm talking about crimes of violence, the UK just about leads the world, its certainly WAY ahead of the US...
    Do you actually have any figures to back that up?

    It is going to be difficult to find comparable statistics but surely you cannot be suggesting that somehow the United States, with a homicide rate four times that of the United Kingdom, somehow has a ‘violent crime’ rate that is ‘way’ lower?
    WA$.

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    [QUOTE=ZRX61;1982015]So you're saying that when seconds count, the guys you used to work with were probably 30 minutes away?

    O.K. Rick. From my OWN personal experiance. As stated elsewhere on here, I was stopped in Flagstaff and booked for 2 mph over the limit. The fine was paid at the Post Office at the South Rim at the Grand Canyon. This guys area, so the Postmistress told me, was from the Hoover Dam side of Flagstaff to the Grand Canyon.
    Are you stating HE,, could have travelled all those miles in 20 mins, perhaps if he were Superman.so don't knock our chaps please, they do their best, with the little they have at their disposal.

    What about the chap who Hi Jacked a Tank from "The not so secure" compound of the National Guard in San Diego, which is lousy with Cops, they were on the spot, but still couldn't stop him going on the rampage, until a cop opened the hatch and shot him.
    No, give me the good old Brit Copper any day.
    Jim.
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  21. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincoln 7 View Post
    O.K. Rick. From my OWN personal experiance. As stated elsewhere on here, I was stopped in Flagstaff and booked for 2 mph over the limit. The fine was paid at the Post Office at the South Rim at the Grand Canyon. This guys area, so the Postmistress told me, was from the Hoover Dam side of Flagstaff to the Grand Canyon.
    Are you stating HE,, could have travelled all those miles in 20 mins, perhaps if he were Superman.so don't knock our chaps please, they do their best, with the little they have at their disposal.
    Jim.
    Lincoln .7
    Of course he couldn't, that's why we have guns to protect ourselves & others when needed. Good thing you were only being given a speeding ticket & not being mugged by some *undocumented democrat voter*...
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Do you actually have any figures to back that up?

    It is going to be difficult to find comparable statistics but surely you cannot be suggesting that somehow the United States, with a homicide rate four times that of the United Kingdom, somehow has a ‘violent crime’ rate that is ‘way’ lower?
    UK:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_s...United_Kingdom
    According to the Home Office, there were around 880,000 "Violence against the person" crimes in England and Wales in 2008–9, equivalent to 16 per thousand people in England and Wales. There were about 50,000 sexual offences during the same period, just under 1 per thousand. Other areas of crime included robbery (80,000; equivalent to around 1.5 crimes/per thousand), burglary (285,000; 5 per thousand) and vehicle theft (150,000; 3 per thousand).
    US:
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr.../violent-crime


    In 2011, an estimated 1,203,564 violent crimes occurred nationwide, a decrease of 3.8 percent from the 2010 estimate.
    When considering 5- and 10-year trends, the 2011 estimated violent crime total was 15.4 percent below the 2007 level and 15.5 percent below the 2002 level.
    There were an estimated 386.3 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2011.
    Aggravated assaults accounted for the highest number of violent crimes reported to law enforcement at 62.4 percent. Robbery comprised 29.4 percent of violent crimes, forcible rape accounted for 6.9 percent, and murder accounted for 1.2 percent of estimated violent crimes in 2011.
    Information collected regarding type of weapon showed that firearms were used in 67.7 percent of the nation’s murders, 41.3 percent of robberies, and 21.2 percent of aggravated assaults. (Weapons data are not collected for forcible rape.) (See Expanded Homicide Data Table 7, Robbery Table 3, and the Aggravated Assault Table.)


    Shows 50% more crimes in the US with 5x the population on the UK. So per capita the UK leads the US.
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  23. #503
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    Thanks for coming back with some figures to support your argument.....it makes a nice change on these types of thread!

    The UNODC figures for homicide in 2012 give a total of 14,748 homicides for the United States and 722 for the United Kingdom (and that ties-in quite well with the FBI homicide figures you posted for 2011).

    But look at the figures you quoted for ‘violent crime’ rates; 1600 per 100,000 in the United Kingdom (in 2009) and an estimated 386.3 per 100,000 in the United States (in 2011).

    Correcting for population size that would mean that although United Kingdom ‘violent crime’ is apparently four times higher than in the United States somehow the United States has a homicide rate that is four times higher than in the United Kingdom. Doesn’t that strike you as strange?

    I have to say that I don’t think a UK ‘violent crime’ is the same as a US ‘violent crime’; my guess is that the UK Home Office figures include many crimes that would not count as ‘violent’ in the United States.
    WA$.

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    In related news:

    Police officers in Seattle, Washington held their first gun buyback program in 20 years this weekend, underneath interstate 5, and soon found that private gun collectors were working the large crowd as little makeshift gun shows began dotting the parking lot and sidewalks. Some even had “cash for guns” signs prominently displayed.

    Police stood in awe as gun enthusiasts and collectors waved wads of cash for the guns being held by those standing in line for the buyback program.

    People that had arrived to trade in their weapons for $100 or $200 BuyBack gift cards($100 for handguns, shotguns and rifles, and $200 for assault weapons) soon realized that gun collectors were there and paying top dollar for collectible firearms. So, as the line for the chump cards got longer and longer people began to jump ship and head over to the dealers.

    John Diaz, Seattles Police Chief, wasn’t pleased with the turn of events stating “I’d prefer they wouldn’t sell them,” but admitted it’s perfectly legal for private individuals to buy and sell guns, FOR NOW. Mayor Mike McGinn said at a news conference the private transactions are a loophole that needs to be closed. “There’s no background checks, and some (guns) could be exchanged on the streets that shouldn’t be in circulation.”

    But Schuyler Taylor, a previous gun retailer attending the event in hopes of buying weapons, asked “Why not offer them cash versus a gift card? I’m still taking the guns off the streets; they’re just going in my safe.”

    People were reportedly, at one point, jumping out of vehicles whilst sitting in traffic – making on the spot deals with the gun buyers.

    But the BuyBack wasn’t a bust. On the contrary – their $80,000 supply of gift cards didn’t last but 2 hours, and by 11:00 am they began attempting to issue IOU’s at which point the entire crowd responded by turning and marching toward the gun dealers, forcing the police officers to pack it up for the day.

    On one last note of hilarity, the Seattle Police department claims that they will check the buyback guns to see if any were previously stolen and, if so, try to return them to the rightful owners! LOL. Brilliant!

    In 1992, Seattle police collected more than 1,200 guns in a four-day buyback program.

    Now the only question is, when will the Seattle Police department stage the next gun show?
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  25. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Correcting for population size that would mean that although United Kingdom ‘violent crime’ is apparently four times higher than in the United States somehow the United States has a homicide rate that is four times higher than in the United Kingdom. Doesn’t that strike you as strange?

    I have to say that I don’t think a UK ‘violent crime’ is the same as a US ‘violent crime’; my guess is that the UK Home Office figures include many crimes that would not count as ‘violent’ in the United States.
    In the US they tend to lump in suicides under the umbrella of "gun deaths". That about doubles the figure, then figure out how many of the other deaths are just worthless criminals killing each other & the rate drops quite a bit more.
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  26. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post

    Correcting for population size that would mean that although United Kingdom ‘violent crime’ is apparently four times higher than in the United States somehow the United States has a homicide rate that is four times higher than in the United Kingdom. Doesn’t that strike you as strange?

    I have to say that I don’t think a UK ‘violent crime’ is the same as a US ‘violent crime’; my guess is that the UK Home Office figures include many crimes that would not count as ‘violent’ in the United States.
    I think if the UK adopted US gun laws two things would happen:

    1, There would be a sharp increase in the number of chavs shooting each other for about a month.
    2, Burglary, mugging & general theft rates would plummet... as they have in the US where gun laws have been eased.

    The case in Florida is interesting in that at the time the rules were eased, rental cars were identified by a sticker on the bumper. The crim's realised that people in rental cars were most likely from out of State & therefore unarmed. The car jackings & robbery etc involving rental cars sky rocketed. Then they made all the rental car companies remove the stickers.. the crime rates against rental car drivers plummeted.

    There is one thing though. Everyone is the UK is accustomed to not being confronted by armed citizens when they try to rob someone, so there would be a few weeks of the perps getting shot left, right & center (no recidivism )
    & the law abiding are so brainwashed to be afraid of just the thought of owning a gun it would take a while for them to catch on to their new freedom.
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  27. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    As for ‘tightening’ the gun-control laws in the United States, I do not see that a ban on ‘assault-weapons’ or larger magazines would have prevented any of the recent tragedies so long as semi-automatic pistols were still available.

    The Second Amendment? While I don’t think it is a good argument for gun ownership I cannot see any US government ever changing it, however, let me say this...

    ...if there was no Second Amendment and the government did turn ‘tyrannical’, do you think the citizens of the United States would not rise-up against that government just because they were not given that ‘right’ by a piece of paper?
    I did not take time to read every post in this thread, but will say, if it has not been already said, and it probably has, the Second Amendment exists to protect the people from the government.
    The is the ONLY reason it exists.

    If it did not exist the government would be very busy disarming the public as had been done in Chicago, and New Orleans during hurricane Katrina. (A law was passed to prevent that from ever happening again as the disarmed people were literally beset by criminals after being disarmed.)

    As for "assault weapons" the only real one ever which was the STG 44, people can, if there record is clean obtain full-auto weapos.
    If they truly wish to deal with them a far lower prices, they may obatain a class 3, or more liberal class 2 permit which allows them to to most destructive devices that are man portable.
    Again they must have a clean record and be able to aford the price to renew the permit every x number of years.

    The term assault weapons as now bandied about in the U.S. came about as gun magazine about thirty years ago, had an article with the glaring headline "assault weapon" in it. Before that the term was UNKNOWN, except for the STG 44.
    After the left wing nutters started using it to attack gun owners the magazine printed an editorial in which they heavily regretted ever using such an asinine headline as a sales gimmick for that issue.
    I will not give the magazines name as I am fairly sure which one it was but not positive.

    I have multiple firearms, and by today's bevy of ignorant talking TV heads standards, enough ammunition to make them apoplectic.

    The National Guard of each State, is technically controlled by Governor of each State
    Technically they can refuse the Presidents order to call them up, except in a state of declared war.
    If you think that the weekend soldiers, many of whom are the very people Washington wants so badly to control the civilian arms of, are going to go marching out like little robots and shoot down there Mothers, Fathers, Brothers, Sisters, etc., guess again.

    You not in the States cannot do so, but if you could, the opinion you would hear of Washington, not just the President, from people returning from deployment would give you a large education as to how likely they are to shoot down their own people, and why Washington really wants to disarm the populace.
    The National Guard had turned into a club of boys who played army once in a awhile, now they are hardened veterans, no longer ignorant.

  28. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by RpR View Post
    The National Guard had turned into a club of boys who played army once in a awhile, now they are hardened veterans, no longer ignorant.
    Hey now, don't forget the ANG...
    (2T2X1/1P0X1)
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  29. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    In related news:
    John Diaz, Seattles Police Chief, wasn’t pleased with the turn of events stating “I’d prefer they wouldn’t sell them,” but admitted it’s perfectly legal for private individuals to buy and sell guns, FOR NOW. Mayor Mike McGinn said at a news conference the private transactions are a loophole that needs to be closed. “There’s no background checks, and some (guns) could be exchanged on the streets that shouldn’t be in circulation.”
    Doesn’t that worry anybody? I mean, if there are no background checks made during a private gun sale, doesn’t that mean that virtually anybody can buy a gun privately?

    And once you’ve bought your gun, how does anybody in authority know you’ve still got it? Are guns ‘tracked’ by serial number?
    WA$.

  30. #510
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    In the US they tend to lump in suicides under the umbrella of "gun deaths". That about doubles the figure...
    Yes, I understand that this is routinely done by the gun-control lobby.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    ...many of the other deaths are just worthless criminals killing each other & the rate drops quite a bit more.
    But they’re not all ‘worthless criminals’ are they; plenty of innocent victims and bystanders are shot by these criminals too.
    WA$.

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