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Thread: Tejas Mk1 and Mk2 thread

  1. #1861
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    Aero India 2017 - Rafael offers Derby Mk3 under Make In India initiative

    Israel's Rafael is offering to locally build its Derby Mk III beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) for India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), the company told Jane's on 14 February.

    India's Tejas LCA platform has already successfully been configured with the baseline Derby missile as part of the aircraft's final operational clearance (FOC) phase in 2016.

    The Derby Mk III is the Indian version of the I-Derby Extended Range (ER) missile unveiled at Aero India 2015, which features new capabilities over the original Derby, including a dual-pulse rocket motor, software-defined radio-frequency seeker, and maximum range of 100 km. The Derby Mk III and the short-range, infrared-guided Python 5 are currently under consideration and evaluation by Indian Air Force (IAF) to arm Tejas, according to Rafael.

  2. #1862
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    SAAB offers state-of-the-art AESA radar closely integrated with a compact electronic warfare suite using Gallium Nitride based AESA technology for Tejas Mk1A.

    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...tejas-lca.html
    Sum ergo cogito

  3. #1863
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    Vishnu Som in the rear cockpit of a Tejas trainer





    And the two Tejas trainers, with one of them having Vishnu on board in brown overalls

    Last edited by BlackArcher; 15th February 2017 at 23:09.

  4. #1864
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  5. #1865
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  6. #1866
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    First two Ge-f415ins6 engines have been delivered for mk 2 program.

  7. #1867
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    Yes, confirmed here. 6 more F-414-INS6 engines to be delivered for the prototype stage of the Tejas Mk2

    GE supplies 2 F-414 test engines for Tejas Mk2 and eyes collaboration for AMCA

  8. #1868
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    LCA looks more and more like Mirage 2000 as it matures.

    N-LCA resembles Rafale - albeit a high wing version - as it matures.
    Go Huskers!

  9. #1869
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    The most clear picture of cockpit yet(also lays down to the rest doubt about hosepipe passing through rudder):
    Click image for larger version. 

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    sourced from ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions
    Last edited by Anant; 18th February 2017 at 06:27.

  10. #1870
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    Hi ... Incredible experience in being the first journalist to have flown on the Tejas. My report over here - http://www.ndtv.com/video/news/news/...e-tejas-449375

    As for images ... here are a handful:


  11. #1871
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  12. #1872
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  13. #1873
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  14. #1874
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  15. #1875
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    Sorry ... couldn't resist.


  16. #1876
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  17. #1877
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    Thanks for the pics Vishnu.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  18. #1878
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    Quote Originally Posted by VishnuSom View Post
    This specific shot looks so beautiful.

  19. #1879
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    LCA looks more and more like Mirage 2000 as it matures.

    N-LCA resembles Rafale - albeit a high wing version - as it matures.
    Noticed? Trying to dig...

  20. #1880
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    Quote Originally Posted by JangBoGo View Post
    This specific shot looks so beautiful.
    Is the nose cone in this verson large enough for a decent radar?

  21. #1881
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    IIRC Size remains same as single seater(dia of mmr 650 mm)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Anant; 19th February 2017 at 16:42.

  22. #1882
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    Sum ergo cogito

  23. #1883
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    Despite US Sanctions, This Aerospace Engineer from Odisha Gave India Its First LCA – Tejas

    http://www.thebetterindia.com/87665/...rayana-odisha/
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  24. #1884
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    ok i need some confirmation since there's a lot of people saying random stuff


    Indian AF: Which Tejas models are being canceled/not purchased, and which will be purchased?

    Indian Navy: Which Tejas models are being canceled/not purchased, and which will be purchased?

  25. #1885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    ok i need some confirmation since there's a lot of people saying random stuff


    Indian AF: Which Tejas models are being canceled/not purchased, and which will be purchased?

    Indian Navy: Which Tejas models are being canceled/not purchased, and which will be purchased?
    Nothing's been cancelled thus far.

    IAF: 40 Mk1s delivered to 2021. 80 Mk1As delivered 2021-26. Unknown no. of Mk2s 2026-.
    IN: Unknown no. of Mk2s 2026-.

    Its possible the Mk2 may be scrapped. That's all. Given that Mk2 development hasn't ceased (8 F414s ordered, 2 delivered) its more likely that the IN will induct 2 squadrons (esp. for carrier training). Another 3-4 squadrons for the IAF allowing HAL to keep the line running to 2030. Unless the IAF orders the F-16, that would most likely kill the AF Mk2.

  26. #1886
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vnomad View Post
    Nothing's been cancelled thus far.

    IAF: 40 Mk1s delivered to 2021. 80 Mk1As delivered 2021-26. Unknown no. of Mk2s 2026-.
    IN: Unknown no. of Mk2s 2026-.

    Its possible the Mk2 may be scrapped. That's all. Given that Mk2 development hasn't ceased (8 F414s ordered, 2 delivered) its more likely that the IN will induct 2 squadrons (esp. for carrier training). Another 3-4 squadrons for the IAF allowing HAL to keep the line running to 2030. Unless the IAF orders the F-16, that would most likely kill the AF Mk2.
    Are you saying that you think Mk2 will be cancelled if the 'Make in India' single engine fighter proposition goes ahead?

    Chaos seems to reign in terms of LCA. The only reason I see to order F-16 or Gripen is because the indigenous efforts to produce (and by that I don't mean to design and test, I mean to deliver fighters to the Indian armed forces as well) have failed. If you are years late delivering a product to a customer who is in great need of your product, you have failed. Would it be the case that (those in the know in) India has lost any confidence in DRDO/HAL getting light fighters to the IAF without massive and unacceptable delay?
    Sum ergo cogito

  27. #1887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spitfire9 View Post
    Are you saying that you think Mk2 will be cancelled if the 'Make in India' single engine fighter proposition goes ahead?
    I'd say there's a pretty good chance of that. At least for the AF. The Navy may still order a couple of squadrons for carrier training (currently IN pilots do their conversion in the US on Goshawks).

    Chaos seems to reign in terms of LCA. The only reason I see to order F-16 or Gripen is because the indigenous efforts to produce (and by that I don't mean to design and test, I mean to deliver fighters to the Indian armed forces as well) have failed. If you are years late delivering a product to a customer who is in great need of your product, you have failed. Would it be the case that (those in the know in) India has lost any confidence in DRDO/HAL getting light fighters to the IAF without massive and unacceptable delay?
    There would have been something to that argument if the F-16 or Gripen was available tomorrow. Yet with the time taken to negotiate and sign an agreement and the 3 year cycle for deliveries, the earliest that an off-the-shelf aircraft will fly in IAF colours is 2021. Add perhaps another two years for a locally assembled one. And add in many more years for an indigenized one. How much time will expanding the Tejas production to 32/yr from 16/yr? Preferably involving the pvt sector. Less than the foreign aircraft... assuming the MoD releases the required funding (take a look at how long it sat on the no-brainer $200 mil fund request to double the 8/yr capacity at HAL).

    There is chaos. At the MoD. Which has apparently lost its marbles.

  28. #1888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vnomad View Post
    There would have been something to that argument if the F-16 or Gripen was available tomorrow. Yet with the time taken to negotiate and sign an agreement and the 3 year cycle for deliveries, the earliest that an off-the-shelf aircraft will fly in IAF colours is 2021.
    How long does it take to negotiate an agreement? Even if you are in a hurry (which I think India is) I'm not saying it takes 5 minutes. 5 months is more realistic. 3 year cycle for deliveries? I think LM would go to work ASAP if a deal were done before the F-16 line and supplier chain went dead quiet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vnomad View Post
    Add perhaps another two years for a locally assembled one. And add in many more years for an indigenized one. How much time will expanding the Tejas production to 32/yr from 16/yr? Preferably involving the pvt sector. Less than the foreign aircraft... assuming the MoD releases the required funding (take a look at how long it sat on the no-brainer $200 mil fund request to double the 8/yr capacity at HAL).

    There is chaos. At the MoD. Which has apparently lost its marbles.
    What is Tejas production capacity - 4 a year? Total delivered in last 2 years: is it 3? Total that will actually be delivered in 2017? I don't mean the current promise. I mean in reality. With the best will in the world air forces cannot fly aircraft that have failed to materialise.

    You know what? I would love to see IAF equipped with 200 or so Tejas. Would I feel confident Tejas deliveries would take place more or less on schedule if I were an IAF decision maker? Definitely not. I would prefer to order kit from a supplier that was likely to supply more or less on time. Even if it said it could not supply as fast as another unreliable supplier claimed to be able to do, at least I could plan with confidence.

    Yes, it's good to hear that steps are being taken to increase capacity to 16 a year. But that should have been in a timely fashion. It's not as if the plan for Tejas to replace MiG-21's was only thought of a couple of years ago. As far as I can make know, that's been the plan for over 30 years. Those who failed to act accordingly should be kicked out of their posts.
    Sum ergo cogito

  29. #1889
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    Gripen NG weighs 8 ton. LCA naval can easily be 9 ton. I have doubt it can work from carrier.

  30. #1890
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spitfire9 View Post
    How long does it take to negotiate an agreement? Even if you are in a hurry (which I think India is) I'm not saying it takes 5 minutes. 5 months is more realistic. 3 year cycle for deliveries? I think LM would go to work ASAP if a deal were done before the F-16 line and supplier chain went dead quiet.
    Which aircraft is to be selected? What configuration is to be ordered in? What will it cost? What munitions will be ordered? What maintenance/support package is being offered? What are the warranty terms? How will the payments be staggered? How will fluctuations in the forex rate be adjusted in payment? What is the nature and extent of customization required? How much will that cost? What, if any, COMSEC restricted equipment has been cleared for transfer? How will potential engineering change orders be processed and priced? What type of long term support arrangement is envisaged? What rights does the end-user have with regard to local modifications/upgrades? Will it, for example, be able to approach a non-OEM contractor for an MLU? How much ToT is being offered by the OEM? How much ToT transfer has been cleared for transfer by the OEM's governing authority? What are the relevant Indian labs/companies looking for in the terms of ToT? What is the exact number of aircraft to be ordered? What will the breakdown of the orders be: off-the-shelf, assembled from SKD, assembled from CKD, locally manufactured? What will the timeline of deliveries be? What is the offsets limit? What is the breakdown of offset content? Which pvt partner is involved? What will its exactly contribution be i.e. how is it priced? How will the liabilities for non-performance be distributed among the participating entities? How and under who's jurisdiction will potential contractual disputes be resolved? What are the IP rights of the end-user with regard to export & re-export? The list of points to be negotiated goes on...

    5 months?!!! Come on. Please get realistic. Forget the Indian MoD, it takes 6-9 months for the US DSCA to process an FMS request. Even if everything proceeds at lightening pace the contract will still only be signed in the latter half of 2018.

    Also, 3 yrs is pretty much the standard time required for production. One year long-lead (particularly for metallurgical elements). One year, construction. One year, final assembly. Total, 2.5 yrs at the short end... which probably doesn't apply here since it'll require a customization effort by the OEM. Case-in-point: Can’t advance Rafale deliveries: Dassault

    And this BTW is only for the F-16. The Gripen E's first flight has been postponed to mid-2017 with IOC still scheduled for 2023.

    What is Tejas production capacity - 4 a year? Total delivered in last 2 years: is it 3? Total that will actually be delivered in 2017? I don't mean the current promise. I mean in reality. With the best will in the world air forces cannot fly aircraft that have failed to materialise.
    The Tejas' production capacity currently 8 per year. 8 assembly jigs in two hangars. The total aircraft delivered in 2017 will obviously aircraft that went into production in 2015. Hardly reflects the current production capacity. The 'current promise' meanwhile is for an expansion to 16/yr by 2019-20.

    You know what? I would love to see IAF equipped with 200 or so Tejas. Would I feel confident Tejas deliveries would take place more or less on schedule if I were an IAF decision maker? Definitely not. I would prefer to order kit from a supplier that was likely to supply more or less on time. Even if it said it could not supply as fast as another unreliable supplier claimed to be able to do, at least I could plan with confidence.
    That's a valid logic. Then again, I'm sure the same argument was proposed with the regard to the Dhruv as well when it was struggling with production and technical gremlins. Expediency dictated that it ought to be killed off or at least truncated, in favour of an imported light helo. Fortunately, they persevered and sorted it out. Once you get a grip on production, in particular a stable reliable eco-system of subcontractors, expansion is relatively easier. Today the Dhruv's orderbook stands at some 250 delivered, has another 200 odd pending orders and last week announced fresh orders for 75 units.

    Yes, it's good to hear that steps are being taken to increase capacity to 16 a year. But that should have been in a timely fashion. It's not as if the plan for Tejas to replace MiG-21's was only thought of a couple of years ago. As far as I can make know, that's been the plan for over 30 years. Those who failed to act accordingly should be kicked out of their posts.
    That may be. Point is, this is where it is now, while alternatives are years away and will feature little local content for many years thereafter.
    Last edited by Vnomad; 21st February 2017 at 08:17.

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