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Thread: Frankenplane Prototypes

  1. #61
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    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  2. #62
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    Gripen - Typhoon Hybrid

    Tupovlev Pheonixski
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    Last edited by MadRat; 12th January 2013 at 16:50.
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  3. #63
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    Incorporating JSF into the Rafale
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    Incorporating JSF into the Rafale
    you will pay for that infamy
    The Rafale international forum :
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    Rafale news blog :
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  5. #65
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    Infamy indeed
    "allah akbar": NATO's new warcry.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    SR-71 crossed with the Su-47 FSW's
    That it is the most manga design I have ever seen. How about an appropriately Japanese paints scheme?
    Rule zero: don't be on fire

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    That it is the most manga design I have ever seen. How about an appropriately Japanese paints scheme?
    I'm not sure how people do that. I almost moved the engines to the fuselage like on an A-10, but it didn't look as nice. I was also looking at a Rafale using the same forward swept wings and louvred exhaust from the F-117A. Imagine the howls on that idea.
    Last edited by MadRat; 16th January 2013 at 21:42.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    No drama

    Have subsequently spoken to someone with more aerodynamic knowledge than me (I.e. some aerodynamic knowledge!) who said that the vixens issue wasn't lack of power and putting bigger motors in would just repeat scimitar (famously the most powerful aircraft never to break the sound barrier)
    The reason to replace the Mk 208 Avons (11,000 lb.s.t.) with Mk 101 Speys (11,030 lb.s.t.) is all about that reduction in SFC from .86 kg fuel/kg thrust/hour to .63 kg/kg/hr!

    A 36.5% reduction in fuel use... thus a 36.5% increase in range/radius!

    Not to mention that the Buccaneer Mk2 also uses the Spey Mk 101... thus you reduce the maintenance & logistics load aboard HMS Victorious, HMS Hermes, HMS Eagle, & HMS Ark Royal!
    Last edited by Bager1968; 17th January 2013 at 03:53.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    Incorporating JSF into the Rafale
    You just took fugly to a new level... *crying smiley*

  10. #70
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    How can a mother not love her offspring?



    The angled view is pretty slick. I had started doing one from the front, but it looked too much like the J-20. The side view is actually shortened almost 10% simply because it too suffered the ugliness of being too much like a J-20. I'm still leaning towards a FSW version of the Rafale, just without the F-117A exhaust. There aren't too many FSW examples to borrow from save for X-29 and the Berkut. The spine and tail of the F-117 just doesn't fit right, but it's leaning towards an exotic look that says it is french. The tail of the Blackbird might work.

    It's a shame there aren't many granular pictures of fighters from the Korean and Vietnam eras. I'd love to mash up the F-105.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bager1968 View Post
    The reason to replace the Mk 208 Avons (11,000 lb.s.t.) with Mk 101 Speys (11,030 lb.s.t.) is all about that reduction in SFC from .86 kg fuel/kg thrust/hour to .63 kg/kg/hr!

    A 36.5% reduction in fuel use... thus a 36.5% increase in range/radius!

    Not to mention that the Buccaneer Mk2 also uses the Spey Mk 101... thus you reduce the maintenance & logistics load aboard HMS Victorious, HMS Hermes, HMS Eagle, & HMS Ark Royal!
    Thank you for that. You have nicely reaffirmed my faith in my big 'what should have been!'
    Rule zero: don't be on fire

  12. #72
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    Mig-33
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  13. #73
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    I really loved the Mirage F.1 with the square intakes posted on page two. I decided to take the idea a little further and present you the stealthy Mirage FX :diablo:
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  14. #74
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    Your pm inbox was full so I'll just say it here.

    Very nice work. Please continue to share.
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  15. #75
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    In response to a DoD/MoD request for a cheap STOL UCAV, BAe got a welding torch & visited a scrapyard:




  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bager1968 View Post
    The reason to replace the Mk 208 Avons (11,000 lb.s.t.) with Mk 101 Speys (11,030 lb.s.t.) is all about that reduction in SFC from .86 kg fuel/kg thrust/hour to .63 kg/kg/hr!

    A 36.5% reduction in fuel use... thus a 36.5% increase in range/radius!
    Hang on.

    Speys big advantage over Avon is fuel consumption. Lightnings big problem was lack of range.

    That Lightning radome must be big enough for Blue vixen. Asraam gives bvr.

    One Mauser 27mm in place of two 30mm adens gives more rounds of ammo.

    Lightning II it is then.
    Rule zero: don't be on fire

  17. #77
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    The problem with that is turbofans do really well at low/medium altitudes and speeds, but really drop off in actual power output at high altitudes and supersonic speeds.

    This is why the British F-4s with Speys had a lower max operational ceiling and lower "max speed at altitude" than the J79-powered F-4s, even though they put out more thrust than the J79s on the test stand.

    This is fine for the subsonic Sea Vixen, and for the A-7D/E (which used the Allison-modified Spey-based TF41), as they both operated at low-medium altitudes and were barely trans-sonic in a dive.


    The Lightning, on the other hand, was a high-speed/high-altitude interceptor, so replacing its Avons with Speys will, while increasing range/mission duration, lower its max speed and max altitude.

    If you are trying to make a more multi-role fighter then this is acceptable, but the bomber-interceptor role will remain with the Avon-engined Lightnings.



    Note that the F100/F110 engines in the USAF F-15/F-16s were of a lower bypass-ratio than the Spey... they had a worse SFC (.73-.75), but lost less thrust at high-speed/high-altitude.

    The F-111 & F-14 both used the TF30... which was of similar characteristics to the Spey (but less-well-implemented), and suffered the same high-speed/high-altitude power loss. This was fixed in the F-111F by up-rating the TF30 to ~25% more thrust, and in the F-14B/D by installing F110s (also of higher thrust than the TF30s they replaced).
    Last edited by Bager1968; 27th January 2013 at 04:49.

  18. #78
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    The lightning didn't spend much time at high altitude. Turbofans suffer less in the climb phase and the loss of a small percentage at high altitude compared to the turbojet matters very little in the end.

    If you post new pictures to keep the original intent of the thread going, I'd be much appreciative.
    Last edited by MadRat; 27th January 2013 at 13:21.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    If you post new pictures to keep the original intent of the thread going, I'd be much appreciative.
    Well I tried. But I've never been able to get on with computer paint programmes and so sketched by hand in a dull meeting and scanned in. Tbh its more 'inspired-by-Lightning' than Lightning.

    Since this is Frankenplane she has Crusader style Y pylons

    Oh and I went twin vertical tails and no horizontals to save the space for actuators and gubbins where I've already put slightly longer and more than slightly wider motors.
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  20. #80
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    I've always liked both the Crusader and the Lightning, and it would be cool to combine the two into a Frankenplane. Here is a link of a modeller that did a Crusader with the Lightning dual exhaust: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index....c,35089.0.html

    Not as sexy as the Lightning front and back ends, but good concept. But also consider the single-engined Lightning here: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index....c,34972.0.html



    It's actually the body of an Su-7 with the front end, wings, belly, and gear of the Lightning grafted on. Whatif modellers are amazing.
    Last edited by Mpacha; 3rd February 2013 at 12:50. Reason: Image too large.
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  21. #81
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    A couple of hacks

    TF-102D with French trimmings - the TF-102A is already very Rafale-like.

    TF-102A nose on the Lightning T4 - yes, I replace the big mouth tandem two seater with a pointed tandem two seater front end.
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    Last edited by MadRat; 17th February 2013 at 00:05.
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  22. #82
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    Let's do something reasonable.
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    The truth usually between two extremes, the key is when and where.

  23. #83
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    Now i know where iranians engineers got ideas for their furtive plane

  24. #84
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    Super Hornet with a large delta wing and naval Tejas like Levcons.

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    Another beauty idea, only someone did it in a model...

    The Panavia Tornado with proper wings from a F/A-18.

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    I like the fixed wing Tornado.

    Here are a couple of Phantom-hybrids. The first uses a Mirage front end. (Realistically it would have had to use small engines like the Adours.) The second is a Tornado front end which is more in line with the size of the original Phantom.
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  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    I like the fixed wing Tornado.

    Here are a couple of Phantom-hybrids. The first uses a Mirage front end. (Realistically it would have had to use small engines like the Adours.) The second is a Tornado front end which is more in line with the size of the original Phantom.
    the mirage is horrible
    but the Tornado looks just right, as if it was meant to make babies with a phantom.

    Can you do a stealthy Draken next?

  28. #88
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    What are your ideas on the stealthy Draken? I need the ideas to roll with it.

    While you're mulling over that check out the Jaguar-Tornado hybrid. Both are so similar they just begged to be Frankenplaned.
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  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    A couple of hacks

    TF-102D with French trimmings - the TF-102A is already very Rafale-like.

    TF-102A nose on the Lightning T4 - yes, I replace the big mouth tandem two seater with a pointed tandem two seater front end.
    TF-102 has side-by-side seating, not tandem.

    Tandem (or in tandem) is an arrangement where a team of machines, animals or people are lined up one behind another, all facing in the same direction... like the BAE Hawk or T-38.

  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    Mig-33
    Love the shot, but can't figure out which aircraft mated with Fulcrum to produce it.
    "The United States' aim is to win the war -- it has no sovereign interest in the integrity of Australia." -- Douglas MacArthur, 1942

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