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Thread: Goalkeeper CIWS out of service by 2015 for RN

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    UK
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    Goalkeeper CIWS out of service by 2015 for RN

    The Goalkeeper mounts in RN service are being retired and put up for sale. With Illustrious retiring leaving only Albion and Bulwark with a pair it has been decided its cheaper to retire then maintain a logistics chain for two gun mounts.

    With Phalanx mounts freeing up and the relatively easy installation Albion will probably get them when she stands up in 2016. Also frees up some below deck space on the Albion class. Presumably once they gut the below deck gubbins from Albion and Bulwark they will weld over the hole and bolt Phalanx on top.

    http://www.janes.com/products/janes/...?ID=1065971330
    A future lost through a lack of vision!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTM4v...eature=related

  2. #2
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    Dec 2005
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    To be honest I am fairly supportive of this plan, any advantages Goalkeeper had over Phalanx have been eroded over the years. The ballistic end performance against a missile of the tungsten darts are similar. The advantage of being able to accept off platform data from the ships FCS that Goalkeeper had is mute as later Phalanx blocks can do the same thing. Phalanx had a couple of interesting upgrade paths with the SeaRAM/RIM116 and LaWS. The cost savings through streamlining of logistics and training can't be ignored.

    Selling the mounts, spares, logistics equipment and even the ammunition brings good value to the tax payer.
    Last edited by Fedaykin; 21st September 2012 at 13:27.
    A future lost through a lack of vision!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTM4v...eature=related

  3. #3
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    Good call.

    30 years ago we realized missiles > guns for AShM defense.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    3,929
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
    To be honest I am fairly supportive of this plan, any advantages Goalkeeper had over Phalanx have been eroded over the years. The ballistic end performance against a missile of the tungsten darts are similar. The advantage of being able to accept off platform data from the ships FCS that Goalkeeper had is mute as later Phalanx blocks can do the same thing. Phalanx had a couple of interesting upgrade paths with the SeaRAM/RIM116 and LaWS. The cost savings through streamlining of logistics and training can't be ignored.

    Selling the mounts, spares, logistics equipment and even the ammunition brings good value to the tax payer.
    METRIC DESIGNATION 20 x 102
    RIM DIAMETER 29.5
    NATIONALITY USA
    PROJECTILE HEI / 102
    VELOCITY 1,030
    NAME / WEAPONS 1950s M39, M61, M197 GIAT 20M621

    METRIC DESIGNATION 30 x 173
    RIM DIAMETER 44.0
    NATIONALITY CH / USA
    PROJECTILE HE / 360
    VELOCITY 1,080
    NAME / WEAPONS 1960s (steel) Oe KCA; (alloy) GAU-8/A a/c / CIWS, MK 30, Bushmaster AFV

    http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ammotables.htm

    Just to give an idea of the difference...


    In recent years, the Vulcan 20 mm gun that is the heart of this weapon has increasingly been seen as not being effective enough against modern missile threats. For example, the planned DD(X) destroyers of the USS Zumwalt (DD-1000) class will use the Bofors 57 mm Mark 110 for last-ditch defense and other warships are using the Sea RAM (RIM-116) anti-missile system.

    Phalanx Ammunition

    Type: Fixed
    Weight of Complete Round:
    Mark 149: 0.58 lbs. (0.263 kg)
    Mark 244: N/A
    Projectile Types and Weights
    (see Note 2) APDS Mark 149 - 0.22 lbs. (0.10 kg)
    APDS Mark149-2 - 0.22 lbs. (0.10 kg)
    APDS Mark 149-4 - 0.22 lbs. (0.10 kg)
    APDS ELC Mark 244-0 - 0.33 lbs. (0.15 kg)
    Bursting Charge N/A - Solid Tungsten Penetrator
    Projectile Length 6.62 in (16.8 cm)
    Propellant Charge N/A
    Cartridge 20 x 102 mm
    Muzzle Velocity Mark 149: 3,650 fps (1,113 mps)
    Working Pressure N/A
    Approximate Barrel Life N/A
    Ammunition stowage per gun Block 0: 989 rounds per magazine
    Block 1: 1,550 rounds per magazine

    Range
    Elevation With 0.22 lbs. (0.11 kg) Mark 149-4 APDS
    Range @ 45 degrees 6,000 yards (5,500 m)
    Maximum effective range 1,625 yards (1,490 m)

    Weight Early models: 12,500 pounds (5,625 kg)
    Later models: 13,600 pounds (6,120 kg)
    http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_Phalanx.htm

    GOALKEEPER

    Ammunition
    .
    Type Fixed
    Weight of Complete Round
    PGU-14/B API: 1.62 lbs. (0.735 kg)
    PGU-13/B HE-I: 1.48 lbs. (0.671 kg)
    APDS-T: 1.23 lbs. (0.560 kg)
    FMPDS: 1.37 lbs. (0.620 kg)
    Projectile Types and Weights API: 0.94 lbs. (0.425 kg)
    HE-I: 0.79 lbs. (0.360 kg)
    APDS-T: 0.50 lbs. (0.225 kg)
    FMPDS: 0.52 lbs. (0.234 kg)
    Bursting Charge HE-I: 0.12 lbs. (0.056 kg) HE/Incendiary
    Projectile Length N/A
    Complete Round - 11.4 in (29 cm)
    Propellant Charge 0.33 to 0.34 lbs. (0.150 to 0.156 kg) RP1313 single base propellant
    Cartridge 30 x 173 mm
    Muzzle Velocity API - 3,225 fps (983 mps)
    HE-I: 3,350 fps (1,021 mps)
    APDS-T: 4,019 fps (1,225 mps)
    MPDS: 3,773 fps (1,150 mps)
    Working Pressure N/A
    Approximate Barrel Life N/A
    Ammunition Stowage per gun 1,190 rounds on mounting

    Range.
    Elevation With 0.94 lbs. (0.425 kg) API Penetrator
    Maximum Effective Range about 2,200 yards (2,000 m)
    Min/Max Range 160 to 3,300 yards (150 to 3,000 m)

    Weight On Mount: 14,018 lbs. (6,358 kg) (incl. 1,190 rounds of ammunition)
    Off Mount: 7,766 lbs. (3,523 kg)
    Total: 21,784 lbs. (9,881 kg)
    http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNNe...Goalkeeper.htm

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,929
    Phalanx, Goalkeeper and Millenium use different approaches to combat their target.

    Phalanx throws a stream of either 60 or 100 penetrator slugs (15mm DU AP, sabotted) at the target in about 1.2 seconds.

    Goalkeeper fires about 15 penetrator slugs (the same 15mm long-rod penetrators as Phalanx, in DU or tungsten, but with more power and speed) at the target in only 0.2 second long bursts, unlike Phalanx with automatic kill assessment after each such burst. This is different from Phalanx in so far as it truely enables combatting multiple targets.

    Millenium places typically 18 small penetrator clouds in its path (total ~2700 55-grain tungsten AP bullets per burst) within 1.0 seconds.

    USN tested Goalkeeper in 1990 as a possible successor to Phalanx (CIWS-2000 tender). Goalkeeper did not show sufficiently higher performance than Phalanx in these tests. Hence the whole CIWS-2000 program was cancelled in favour of upgrading Phalanx. This coincided with Philips selling Signaal to Thomson-CSF, adding a political angle. The CIWS-2000 tests with Goalkeeper involved 12 different targets (Harpoons, Exocets, target drones), all shot down by GK.

    We need also consider reliability (mtbf, stoppages + duration)

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