Shenyang J-21/31/F-60/AMF thread part 1

[Goldust]

"I doubt lockheed-martin would network anything sensitive in a position where it can be "hacked" through the internet."

This is why the Lockmart hacking incident is so embarrassing.

Off on other forums, we already have the J-31's specifications; it's about 11.5 meters in wingspan; announced by the ******* trucking company!

Wing loading on the J-31 is likely going to be less than on the F-22 and more than the F-35; it's the low-end aspect of the J-20/J-31 mix.

If it's wingspan is really 11.5 meters, then its engines cannot be derived from WS-10 / 15 but rather from the smaller WS-13. It has the same shape as F-35 but is instead twin-engined so if its engines are WS-10 sized then its wingspan should be over 13.5 meters.

[totoro]

also, all those images of fuselage under tarp being transported around china were pretty indicative of the plane size and all pointed to something 15-16 meters long with wings 11 or so meters wide.

i dont see anything strange with this plane using two ws13 engines. heck, maybe right now it is using two rd-93 engines. The nozzles on the images sure do look a lot like rd-93.

[Jō Asakura]

Considering China hacked Lockheed-Martins servers, looking for information on a still classified program, and downloaded everything on the F-22 and F-35 while they were at it, you're not far off. Of course, we (The public) never found out if they got the information on the classified program they were trying to get the tech on.

Not everything, the evidence suggests data only for the F-35 front and F-22 fins

LM & Co. need to install this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u5u5A8_SE0

[JangBoGo]

navy mig29 has no chance against j31 now that we confirm it is a navy aircraft

This has to have come from a Pakistani fan...or just a piece meant for certain Indian forums by a Chinese guy who got beaten up by the mods & member in Indian forum. As far as I seen, Chinese hardly care about Indian military as much as Indian care about Pakistani military. Its always the smaller guy bothering about the bigger & stronger ones which we see in online forums.
In Pakistani forums - its paranoid, jealously, bad mouthing & competing with India.
In Indian forums - its paranoid, jealousy, bad mouthing & competing with China

[Levsha]

This has to have come from a Pakistani fan...or just a piece meant for certain Indian forums by a Chinese guy who got beaten up by the mods & member in Indian forum. As far as I seen, Chinese hardly care about Indian military as much as Indian care about Pakistani military. Its always the smaller guy bothering about the bigger & stronger ones which we see in online forums.
In Pakistani forums - its paranoid, jealously, bad mouthing & competing with India.
In Indian forums - its paranoid, jealousy, bad mouthing & competing with China

That MiG-29 should in fact be a Japanese F-2, should it not?

[Sundog]

This is pretty laughable. You simply don't just "download" the blueprints of a modern 5th generation fighter off a server. At best they had access to some design discussion memo's or emails. I doubt lockheed-martin would network anything sensitive in a position where it can be "hacked" through the internet.

You fail to understand I'm simply reporting actual news that was covered in Aviation Week. It was an extreme lack of network security on L-M's part. There wasn't anything laughable about it.

[Rii]

Its always the smaller guy bothering about the bigger & stronger ones which we see in online forums.
In Pakistani forums - its paranoid, jealously, bad mouthing & competing with India.
In Indian forums - its paranoid, jealousy, bad mouthing & competing with China

Now explain America's obsession with Russia, Iran, Cuba...

[mack8]

Now explain America's obsession with Russia, Iran, Cuba...

It's simple ...for instance Cuba, have you seen the ginormous invasion forces always at the shores threatening to jump in their numerous landing vessel to invade the decent, peace loving honest and kind and innocent freedom loving american people and the huge numbers of battlegroups of the cuban navy , like, carriers and battleships dude! Besides everyone knows that evil Cuba is behind all the terrorists in the world man! They are a threat man!

***megalomaniac hypocrites.

Anyway we digress...really hope to see more of this aircraft. Btw something that gets me thinking about both J-20 and J-31. Shouldn't they have IRST to help better opose the american 5th gens? Nothing of the like is obvious on both , but perhaps not yet since they are only prototypes as of now. What do you think , will the J-20 and J-31 have IRST?

[Goldust]

Anyway we digress...really hope to see more of this aircraft. Btw something that gets me thinking about both J-20 and J-31. Shouldn't they have IRST to help better opose the american 5th gens? Nothing of the like is obvious on both , but perhaps not yet since they are only prototypes as of now. What do you think , will the J-20 and J-31 have IRST?

I believe they do have retractable IRST which get deployed when the distance to a target is near enough.

[dingyibvs]

I believe they do have retractable IRST which get deployed when the distance to a target is near enough.

Both appear to have diamond-ish shaped sensors(or at least potential place-holders for sensors) built into the fuselage, indicating that they're likely designed to use something like the EODAS instead of IRST. It's pretty obvious on the J-20, not very clear on the J-31 yet though.

[mack8]

Bai Wei via J10@CDF

[Nils]

i was expecting this to happen, especially after ive seen a picture of a CATIC mockup a few years back

[Trident]

It is worth noting that the real aircraft does not match the model in some important respects (canopy, landing gear, engines, wing trailing edge control surfaces). I do agree that the beefy nose landing gear may indicate carrier-basing, although in that case the absence of a catapult launch bar is interesting (suggesting a catapult carrier may be some ways in the future still).

[BlackArcher]

Bai Wei via J10@CDF

the resemblance to the F-35 is stunning..just the F-22 style vertical fins and the the twin engines make it look a bit different..

[Goldust]

the resemblance to the F-35 is stunning..just the F-22 style vertical fins and the the twin engines make it look a bit different..

I second that. Wonder how much AVIC paid LM for F-35 blueprints?

[TR1]

the resemblance to the F-35 is stunning..just the F-22 style vertical fins and the the twin engines make it look a bit different..

If you went out of your way to make an F-22/F-35 hybrid, that is what you would get.

Not accusing it being a "copy" (of what? 2 aircraft mix isn't a copy), but....yeah. No denying it.

[emile]

overview.

[Nicolas10]

Can't wait to see it take off.

Nic

[emile]

take off what? lol
this aircraft is belong to project 310, therefor, the official designation won't be J-31

[tphuang]

just commenting on one thing here and I'm not saying anyone is really guilty of it, but I've seen the claim that SAC managed to design this aircraft based on the information they hacked from Lockheed everywhere on the internet.

If anyone has seriously followed SAC's struggles in developing J-11B, J-15 and J-16, they would have less confidence in SAC's copying abilities. China has had Su-27s for 20 years and all of the technical documentations and production line for Su-27s for 16 years and they've only barely managed to deliver J-11B into service for about 2 years. And based on J-11B performance in the past year, it's hard for me to call this project a success. And that's when they've got all the blue prints, production tooling, Russian produced parts. And somehow, some people believe SAC can just somehow magically reproduce an aircraft just relying on data they hacked from Lockheed Martin despite have totally different engines, aircraft material, design objectives and electronics.

Also, even though CAC and SAC are competitors within AVIC-1, they are still cooperative in the sense that they do share designs. For example, SAC is said to have been fairly involved with the J-20 project.

[Goldust]

just commenting on one thing here and I'm not saying anyone is really guilty of it, but I've seen the claim that SAC managed to design this aircraft based on the information they hacked from Lockheed everywhere on the internet.

If anyone has seriously followed SAC's struggles in developing J-11B, J-15 and J-16, they would have less confidence in SAC's copying abilities. China has had Su-27s for 20 years and all of the technical documentations and production line for Su-27s for 16 years and they've only barely managed to deliver J-11B into service for about 2 years. And based on J-11B performance in the past year, it's hard for me to call this project a success. And that's when they've got all the blue prints, production tooling, Russian produced parts. And somehow, some people believe SAC can just somehow magically reproduce an aircraft just relying on data they hacked from Lockheed Martin despite have totally different engines, aircraft material, design objectives and electronics.

Also, even though CAC and SAC are competitors within AVIC-1, they are still cooperative in the sense that they do share designs. For example, SAC is said to have been fairly involved with the J-20 project.

Politics run deeper than what is reported in the media. The Democratic party shares similar ideologies with China's Communist party. I wouldn't be surprise if there's quite a bit of under the table deals between China and the US.

[TR1]

Politics run deeper than what is reported in the media. The Democratic party shares similar ideologies with China's Communist party. I wouldn't be surprise if there's quite a bit of under the table deals between China and the US.

lol.

[Lonevolk]

The Red menace is everywhere :diablo:

BTW, congratulations to the Chinese. They're obviously putting a serious effort in their aviation industry.

[Berkut]

Politics run deeper than what is reported in the media. The Democratic party shares similar ideologies with China's Communist party. I wouldn't be surprise if there's quite a bit of under the table deals between China and the US.

MP.net, it has invaded! (Atleast mack8 will get the joke :P)

[Rasputin814]

just commenting on one thing here and I'm not saying anyone is really guilty of it, but I've seen the claim that SAC managed to design this aircraft based on the information they hacked from Lockheed everywhere on the internet.

If anyone has seriously followed SAC's struggles in developing J-11B, J-15 and J-16, they would have less confidence in SAC's copying abilities. China has had Su-27s for 20 years and all of the technical documentations and production line for Su-27s for 16 years and they've only barely managed to deliver J-11B into service for about 2 years. And based on J-11B performance in the past year, it's hard for me to call this project a success. And that's when they've got all the blue prints, production tooling, Russian produced parts. And somehow, some people believe SAC can just somehow magically reproduce an aircraft just relying on data they hacked from Lockheed Martin despite have totally different engines, aircraft material, design objectives and electronics.

Also, even though CAC and SAC are competitors within AVIC-1, they are still cooperative in the sense that they do share designs. For example, SAC is said to have been fairly involved with the J-20 project.

excatly. All the people who think China can simply hack the f-35 design servers and download the blueprints to the f-35 as if it were a torrent obviously have no idea of how aerospace engineering works, or for that matter any type of advanced technical engineering. This simply does not happen. A much much more likely scenario is that they have been studying American airforce doctrine and designs for many years now and have decided to follow in its footsteps. This means they have been studying public available data on the f-35 and f-22. This can range from videos and any data they can get their hands on that is not classified. From these videos, they can clearly see the shaping and get a general idea of the flight characteristic of these platforms. If lockheed martin has been compromised, it is most likely design memo's/emails and very few limited detailed data on design choices. But this is far less important that what is already readily available to them, videos. From this they can slowly research why the f-35 and f-22 are shaped the way they are and the compromises each aircraft went through. You can think of it this way. Think of it as a test question. They know the question. They have a rough idea of what the answer is. They need not the full answer, but the steps required to get the answer. From this they can make their own design choices and learn from the so called "mistakes" that the US went through. It simply makes sense to learn from the best. There is not point in reinventing the wheel.
__________________

[Sintra]

Politics run deeper than what is reported in the media. The Democratic party shares similar ideologies with China's Communist party. I wouldn't be surprise if there's quite a bit of under the table deals between China and the US.

The Democratic Party shares ideology with China´s Communist Party and with the MLM (Mars Libertarian Movement) ...

[haavarla]

L o L

I too don't see the Chinese Aviation Industry over take the Russian, never mind Euro/US within the next 30 years.
I'm not talking about manpower and the production rate, but rather the inovation and hi-tech R&D programs. for Engines, metalurgy Radar and optics sensors.
While the Chinese Aviation industry are catching up, its not like the rest of the world are standing still..

Be that as it may, an congratulation is in order here.
Well done both CAC and SAC.

[thinkplum]

The Democratic Party shares ideology with China´s Communist Party and with the MLM (Mars Libertarian Movement) ...

Karl Max is very unhappy. Cause he didn't have a US MBA degree.
Dude, careful with the word "ideology".

By the way, trying using emule and resource search for "LM"or "F35 fighter", you will find someone did forget to reset thier share folder to D://porn instead of E://mailbox backup.

Many P2P clients are very active portal ways. Governments & institutions & hackers & telecom companies & software companies check your computer every day.

[Sintra]

Karl Max is very unhappy. Cause he didn't have a US MBA degree.

Karl Marx is dead... The chap died in 1883...

Dude, careful with the word "ideology".

IDEOLOGY; IDEOLOGY; IDEOLOGY...


OH NO, i am being attacked by mutant Green Martians, equiped with Democratic Party stickers... (Translated from Portuguese)

By the way, trying using emule and resource search for "LM"or "F35 fighter", you will find someone did forget to reset thier share folder to D://porn instead of E://mailbox backup.

?

Many P2P clients are very active portal ways. Governments & institutions & hackers & telecom companies & software companies check your computer every day.

You´ve just won a Nobel Prize, thats an amazing discovery...


Now can we go back to the latest Chinese Bird? (yes, yes, i am quite aware that i´ve helped more than a litle to "deviate" the topic)

[mack8]

Bai Wei again via J10