Shenyang J-21/31/F-60/AMF thread part 1

[J-31 Penguin]

To get this debate back to aviation, I think that Euros will never buy anything Chinese and most likely also never buy Korean (even if it's perceived as "almost-American", like the Golden Eagle)

That I can agree on. Just look at what happened to European efforts to buy the An-70.

[mack8]

Umm...'the hell are you guys talking again?! Remember Shenyang J-31?

[SlowMan]

Just like making a plane look like an F-22 or F-35, doesn't mean it will be as good as one.

The PLA operates on the principle of numerical superiority, made famous by the human wave attack. The PLA belief is that they could overcome technologically superior US forces by overwhelming them with sheer number, and that dooms day scenario has been studied by the RAND corporation.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009...aiwan-air-war/

Think Tank: China Beats U.S. in Simulated Taiwan Air War

Still, with or without F-22s, the Chinese air and missile force “dramatically outnumbers [U.S. and Taiwanese] forces and wins the war of attrition,” according to Steve Trimble’s summary of the RAND study. The Chinese lose 241 jets on the first day of fighting, while the U.S. and Taiwan together lose 147, but this lopsided kill ratio doesn’t matter, when China has hundreds more planes to put into the air. Moreover, most of the U.S. and Taiwanese planes lost, are destroyed on the ground by barrages of Chinese ballistic missiles. (It’s not for no reason that the U.S. Air Force is working hard to win new friends, each with juicy new bases, all over the Pacific.)

So as long as enough J-11, J-20, and J-31 could close in enough for IR missile launches, the US loses.

[swerve]

The PLA operates on the principle of numerical superiority, made famous by the human wave attack. The PLA belief is that they could overcome technologically superior US forces by overwhelming them with sheer number, and that dooms day scenario has been studied by the RAND corporation.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009...aiwan-air-war/

So as long as enough J-11, J-20, and J-31 could close in enough for IR missile launches, the US loses.

Except that the PLA doesn't have numerical superiority. It's outnumbered in combat aircraft by the USA & its western Pacific allies. At best, it can get local superiority by stripping the rest of the country of combat aircraft.

IMO that RAND study is very optimistic from the Chinese PoV. It makes optimistic (for China) assumptions about the effectiveness of Chinese attempts to interdict US tankers & about the effectiveness of Chinese ballistic missile bombardment of air bases, & discounts US attacks (e.g. by cruise missiles) on Chinese air bases.

[Mpacha]

Further efforts to derail this discussion will result in infractions being issued.

[mack8]

There are 4 clipped fins PL-12 missiles in the bay, same number as F-35 f.e. It is an adequate load in LO mode for an aircraft this size. Only way it can carry more is if there will be some sort of mini-missile developed in the future (like that CUDA thing). Actually, i wonder if China will follow suit on that concept, if they can make one of these mini-me missiles just long legged enough to be competitive to the bigger PL-12&co, imagine a J-31 with say EIGHT BVR missiles in the bay , or the J-20 with 12 or more.

[KYL]

Shenyang usually takes days off right before spring festival(Chinese New Year).

[gentle breeze]

Shenyang AMF Gyrfalcon is flown accompanied by a Shenyang J-11BS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...--JsS_g#t=118s

[Deino]

Fially back to topic !

[Deino]

:diablo:

[Tu 160]

Is there 1 J31 prototype or 2?

[Deino]

IMO there are nearly for sure 2 prototypes: One flying and a static testbed !

[MSphere]

One flying. I assume there is some other airframe for static tests, though.
edit: Deino beat me

[Broccoli]

Fresh out of the oven. How many flights there has been so far?

[mack8]

Apparently only the first one. I suspect they are preparing for the second now. Perhaps the long time between the first few flight seems awkward but it was same for J-20 ( 4 months).

[mack8]

Thanks to Deino @ secretprojects.



Rumour is of a ( second ?) test flight today.

[vario2012]

3rd flight an hour ago

[Deino]

When was the second flight ???

[zhengpao33]

When was the second flight ???

last month

[Deino]

Do You have the exact date ??

[zhengpao33]

Do You have the exact date ??

no one knows the exact date because in china things are leaked at times different than the actual event. but the picture on the internet was in january for sure.

[mack8]

There was a rumour about a flight on SDF on or about january 25-26th i think, right ? About the time the last good picture emerged ( the one from below/front of it landing), need to re-check that.

[Deino]

Thanks ... by the way some new images - albeit with these damn stupid stamps on it ! .... and a happy new year of the snake to all !

Deino

[MSphere]

A nice balanced design. Not as elegant as the Fulcrum due to certain boxiness but still impressive.

[gentle breeze]

[mack8]

Now now, so there's a video there in excellent quality of J-31 taking off and retracting it's gear? Please do post, come on it's new year!
Also, should it be understood that the gear-up pic is not PS ? (i think it was labelled as such in another place)
Thanks.

[roberto_yeager]

Thanks ... by the way some new images - albeit with these damn stupid stamps on it ! .... and a happy new year of the snake to all !

Deino

Dear Deino, here you can see it without "stupid stamps"


http://chinesemilitaryreview.blogspo...con-eagle.html

1Saludo

[Inst]

With the recent downgrades in F-35 performance targets, to what degree should we expect the J-31 to underperform as a maneuverable fighter?

[zhengpao33]

With the recent downgrades in F-35 performance targets, to what degree should we expect the J-31 to underperform as a maneuverable fighter?

j31 is superior because it has two engine not one and it does not have to worry about vertical take off problems, so it will not have the same problem as f35. i read one article that j31 is basically what the f35 should have been.

[TR1]

j31 is superior because it has two engine not one and it does not have to worry about vertical take off problems, so it will not have the same problem as f35. i read one article that j31 is basically what the f35 should have been.

All that based of some photos.

Amazing.