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Thread: Indian Navy : News & Discussion - V

  1. #691
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    Very interesting photos, thanks!
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  2. #692
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    Vishnu Nice Documentary on Kilo Subs of IN.

    Guys love their ships to work in such claustrophobic environment , The worst is to have 1 toilet for a crew of 70 !

    Hopefully we can see similar documentary on INS Chakra

    BTW have the modernised Kilo exercised with IN P-8I , How have they fared ?
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  3. #693
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    Navy rejects Tejas, begins global search

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...le17105331.ece
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  4. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Navy rejects Tejas, begins global search

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...le17105331.ece
    Linked the RFI somewhere...

  5. #695
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    Incredible images from the TROPEX exercises off the coast of Goa including a Kolkata Class DDG firing a BrahMos anti-ship cruise missile.






  6. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by VishnuSom View Post
    Incredible images from the TROPEX exercises off the coast of Goa including a Kolkata Class DDG firing a BrahMos anti-ship cruise missile.





    Nice images, surprised that NDTV has access to defence considering the recent controversies
    Wrinkles wrinkles my kingdom fallen to a wrinkle

  7. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt View Post
    Nice images, surprised that NDTV has access to defence considering the recent controversies
    What controversies ?

  8. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by VishnuSom View Post
    What controversies ?
    some noise about giving away key locations for military sensitive areas up north.

  9. #699
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    Never heard of it.

  10. #700
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    Vishnu, good job on the documentary. How about something on the the 209?

    Also, eager to hear any updates on INS Vikrant.

    INS Vikrant was laid down on 28th Feb 2009 and 2017 makes it the 8th year. Is it possible to do a report/documentary on the progress of the ship and its current status to coincide with the date?

  11. #701
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    INS Betwa, which toppled over during refit, is back on even keel and the IN will complete her refit by 2018

    link

    Good news: @IndianNavy's INS Betwa that keeled over in dock in Dec 2016, back on even keel. Navy determined to get her full ops by Apr 2018.

  12. #702
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    Great article by Saurav Jha on the Indian undersea nuclear deterrent

    India's undersea deterrent

  13. #703
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    Huh, I didn't realise that Aridhaman and follow-on units were going to have eight silos. I thought eight silos were only planned for the next class equipped with a ~150MW reactor.

    Of course the real question, as always, is implementation. It's one thing to imagine several operational nuclear boats equipped with a mixed loadout of nuclear K-4s, conventional K-15s and Nirbhay cruise missiles, but when can we realistically expect such a thing? Nirbhay in particular doesn't seem to be going anywhere fast.
    Last edited by Rii; 25th February 2017 at 13:11.
    Brief and powerless is Man's life; on him and all his race the slow sure doom falls pitiless and dark.

  14. #704
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    any recent pics of the vikrant?
    most of what I find on google are when its hull is still forming or when the island structure was put on, but little else.

  15. #705
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    INS Viraat decommissioned today.

















    Last edited by Coffee_Bean; 6th March 2017 at 08:37.

  16. #706
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    Some more great pics of the grand old INS Viraat












  17. #707
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    IN to retire its Tu-142M 'Albatross' fleet..

    After Viraat, Navy to bid adieu to Albatross patrol aircraft

    NEW DELHI: Another iconic naval platform is now set for retirement after aircraft carrier INS Viraat. The Soviet-origin Tupolev-142M aircraft, which helped the force keep a hawk-eye on enemy warships and submarines in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) for almost 30 years, will be decommissioned later this month.

    The world's largest and fastest turboprop aircraft, aptly named the 'Albatross,' the Navy had inducted eight TU-142Ms since 1988. "They were the backbone of our long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) and anti-submarine warfare operations. But only three are fully operational now. They will now be retired at the naval air station INS Rajali in Arakkonam in Tamil Nadu at a ceremony on March 29," said an officer.
    ..

  18. #708
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  19. #709
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    The past and the future of the IN's maritime patrol, anti-surface and ASW fleet



    On Mar 29, @IndianNavy's INAS 312 'Albattross' squadron will only operate @BoeingDefense P-8Is after Tu-142Ms retire. (Photos/@SitanshuRKar) pic.twitter.com/7pYNA6Hol7
    Last edited by BlackArcher; 24th March 2017 at 17:45.

  20. #710
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    Pics credit Vishal Jolapara


    INAS 312 crew salute their CO as he & his team depart on the second last flight of this legend.


    The INCREDIBLE cockpit crew of this magnificent aircraft of ours.
    @IndianNavy Cdr Mair, Rana & Arjun (Sr Nav).

  21. #711
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    From AW&ST

    India Plans Bulk Buy of Israel Barak-I Missiles

    India will soon buy more than 100 Barak-I surface-to-air missiles (SAM) from Israel for about 5 billion rupees ($77 million). Rafael’s Barak short-range SAMs are installed on most of the navy’s front-line warships, including its only aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya.

    “The new missiles are urgently needed to replace the current ones,” a defense ministry official says. The Indian navy took delivery of the first batch of 262 Barak-Is in 2015 to arm its 14 main warships. Deliveries of that first batch will continue until 2020. The spokesman did not mention when India will start taking delivery of the new order.

    The naval point defense system is vertically launched. A shipborne radar monitors the intercept and continuously guides the missile to its target. The missile has a short minimum range (a few hundred meters), and 10-km (6-mi.) maximum range against air targets.

    Meanwhile, the Indian navy recently issued a global request for information (RFI) for a new short-range SAM system that would eventually replace the Barak-I. The RFI delineates a requirement for 10 vertical-launch SAM systems and 600 missiles for installation onboard its vessels. “We are looking for a missile system that is adequate to engage [targets traveling up to] Mach 3,” an Indian navy spokesman says, without specifying the range. Vendors have been asked to indicate the shortest tentative time schedule for supplying the systems, he added.

    MBDA, Thales, Saab, Raytheon, Israel Aerospace Industries and Rafael Advanced Defense Systems have already shown interest. A full-fledged tender under the “Make in India” policy is likely to be issued later this year, and the system is expected to be inducted within the next five years.

    —Jay Menon in New Delhi

  22. #712
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    From AW&ST- India to export lightweight torpedoes to Myanmar

    NEW DELHI—India will soon supply indigenously-developed lightweight torpedoes to Myanmar in a deal worth about $38 million.
    The torpedoes will be developed by the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO), India’s state-run military agency, DRDO Chairman S. Christopher says.

    The system will be developed in collaboration with the public sector undertaking Bharat Dynamics Ltd. and private engineering and construction company Larsen & Toubro Ltd.

    The export of the lightweight torpedoes “would follow the earlier supply of sonars, acoustic domes and directing gear to Myanmar,” Christopher says.

    The DRDO official did not disclose a time frame for delivery of the weapons.

    India shares a long maritime boundary with Myanmar and is already providing night-vision devices, Bailey bridges, rocket launchers, mortars, rifles, communication and Inmarsat sets to the country’s armed forces.

    India earlier accepted a proposal from the Myanmar Navy to train Indian Navy personnel and set up meteorological facilities.

    New Delhi’s stepping up of military support to Myanmar comes in response to Yangoon’s interest in deepening the countries’ security ties. The two sides have also coordinated patrolling in the boundary along the Bay of Bengal.

  23. #713
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    Vikramaditya - oh you beauty!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  24. #714
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    Can some members who follow Indian military matters comment about what exactly is happening with INS Vikrant and INS Vishal?

    I've read varying articles over the last few weeks seemingly all from the same author from Business Standard, saying that Vikrant will only enter service with all its equipment fitted by the early 2020s (2023?) rather than the commonly cited 2018, and that INS Vishal to only enter service in the early 2030s rather than the commonly cited 2025 and that the configuration of INS Vishal is still not fully settled let alone having a finalized design??

    The relevant articles are below, and are the full length articles from business standard posted on the author's own blog. The relevant parts are quoted.

    http://www.business-standard.com/art...0100987_1.html
    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2017/...ming-this.html

    Meanwhile, India’s second carrier, INS Vikrant, being fabricated at Cochin Shipyard Ltd (CSL), has fallen eight years behind schedule. Originally to be delivered in 2015, it is now expected to be fully operational only in 2023, years after China’s second carrier joins the PLA(N) fleet.
    India’s third carrier, INS Vishal, however, is being planned as a technologically cutting-edge warship with American design features. Like the Type 002, it will have a catapult launch system that equips all US Navy carriers. As Business Standard reported (November 7, 2016 “Navy’s second home-built carrier will be nuclear but will come only in 2030s”) Vishal will feature nuclear propulsion, an “electromagnetic aircraft launch system” (EMALS) and the capacity to embark at least 55 aircraft. It will be built in India and will join the fleet by 2030-35.


    http://www.business-standard.com/art...1900950_1.html
    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.co.nz/201...ithers-on.html

    Vice Admiral DM Deshpande, the navy’s warship acquisition head, stated on Tuesday that the ministry remains uncertain about spending billions of dollars on a carrier.

    “Right now there is a bit of a question mark from the ministry’s side, [although] we have taken this up to the ministry on a few occasions. [An aircraft carrier] is a huge ticket item and, before some commitments are made on allocation of these funds everybody wants to be very clear on the requirement, whether we actually need that. So these are being addressed [before] we actually take it up to the government for final clearances”, said Deshpande, addressing defence industrialists in New Delhi.


    What exactly is happening here?

    With regards to INS Vikrant, if it really does want to enter service in 2018 then by now it should have completed fitting out and started sea trials, preferably last year. I'm not sure what the state of its fitting out is and how it will proceed, but if it goes the way of other big ticket Indian Navy warship projects and suffer delays in the post-launch fitting out process I cannot see it entering service before 2020, however as I say I'm not privy to the exact state of the many subsystems and subcontractors in control of them.

    With regards to INS Vishal, if the Indian Navy has yet to even decide on a concept they want to develop a design on, then I can't see them getting it in service by 2025, especially if it's meant to be a CVN with EMALS which would be a far more complex ship than INS Vikrant, and that's probably even if they receive US help. I mean, even if they had a finalized design ready and all the ducks from the various subcontractors and shipyard lined up in a row, steel cutting for INS Vishal should have already begun if they want to get it in service by 2025, assuming a construction time of about four years, a fitting out time of 2-3 years and a sea trial period of 1-2 years -- which I think would be an optimistic schedule to be honest.


    So would I be correct in saying that the Vikrant's commonly circulated 2018 service date and the Vishal's commonly circulated 2025 service date are very unlikely to be achieved? Or is the author of these articles (Ajai Shukla) not considered particularly reliable or something?

  25. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    So would I be correct in saying that the Vikrant's commonly circulated 2018 service date and the Vishal's commonly circulated 2025 service date are very unlikely to be achieved? Or is the author of these articles (Ajai Shukla) not considered particularly reliable or something?
    The article is quite accurate. Vikrant; launch 2017, sea trials 2018-19, IOC 2020, FOC 2023.

    Far from being delivery ready by 2025, the IN/MoD is yet to decide whether to even order the Vishal, given the expense & timeline (even though an FMS request for the EMALS/AAG has been approved by the US DoD). If ordered, 2035 for FOC would be a fairly reasonable target which is why they'd probably also be considering an interim order for another Vikrant-class ship.
    Last edited by Vnomad; 21st April 2017 at 12:07.

  26. #716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vnomad View Post
    The article is quite accurate. Vikrant; launch 2017, sea trials 2018-19, IOC 2020, FOC 2023.
    Thanks.

    Though I would consider an IOC of 2020 as having the ship be "commissioned" into the Indian Navy as naval ships are usually commissioned first before they achieve some level of operational/combat capability. So my question is whether the 2023 date refers to FOC or IOC, because those would obviously depend on how long the fitting out and sea trials take, and from the latest information I have seen about INS Vikrant's fitting out status I'm

    Another question I have in regards to INS Vikrant is what on earth is meant by various "aviation complexes" not potentially being on the ship until later -- do they actually mean things like arresting gear? Because it goes without saying that the ship can only function as a fixed wing aircraft carrier if you have arresting gear, for a STOBAR carrier, so I imagine the sea trials and commissioning date (edit) will not be representative of a "functioning" carrier.


    Far from being delivery ready by 2025, the IN/MoD is yet to decide whether to even order the Vishal, given the expense & timeline (even though an FMS request for the EMALS/AAG has been approved by the US DoD). If ordered, 2035 for FOC would be a fairly reasonable target which is why they'd probably also be considering an interim order for another Vikrant-class ship.
    When do you expect an order to be done for 2035 FOC? I can only speculate based on my understanding of shipbuilding and looking at some of the Indian shipyard's track record for big ticket projects, and realistically I think an order for a project of this magnitude would have to be made asap with keel laying having to begin by 2020 at the very latest.
    And which shipyards in India are suited to building a ship of this magnitude and complexity?

    Cheers.

    Edit: also, are there any indications as to what the INs destroyer plans are after P15B? I feel like only seven PAR equipped aegis type DDGs by 2024 when the last P15B is expected to be commissioned is insufficient for two CSGs and other missions, so i assume the IN should probably have another DDG class under development or at least consider ordering more P15B DDGs?
    Last edited by Blitzo; 22nd April 2017 at 08:41.

  27. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    Thanks.

    Though I would consider an IOC of 2020 as having the ship be "commissioned" into the Indian Navy as naval ships are usually commissioned first before they achieve some level of operational/combat capability. So my question is whether the 2023 date refers to FOC or IOC, because those would obviously depend on how long the fitting out and sea trials take, and from the latest information I have seen about INS Vikrant's fitting out status I'm
    'Commissioning' (i.e. handover to the IN) is scheduled for Dec 2018 (so probably early-2019) but I suspect that's mostly a ceremonial thing unless they defer it further. The final bits of the aviation complex will also be delivered and integrated in 2019. IOC in 2020 with flight ops beginning 2020-21. FOC 2023. Of course I won't bet the house on it.

    Another question I have in regards to INS Vikrant is what on earth is meant by various "aviation complexes" not potentially being on the ship until later -- do they actually mean things like arresting gear? Because it goes without saying that the ship can only function as a fixed wing aircraft carrier if you have arresting gear, for a STOBAR carrier, so I imagine the sea trials and commissioning date
    Arresting gear, restraining gear, hydraulic stations, etc. And yes, it can't function as a carrier without them.

    When do you expect an order to be done for 2035 FOC? I can only speculate based on my understanding of shipbuilding and looking at some of the Indian shipyard's track record for big ticket projects, and realistically I think an order for a project of this magnitude would have to be made asap with keel laying having to begin by 2020 at the very latest.
    And which shipyards in India are suited to building a ship of this magnitude and complexity?
    Same builder (Cochin Shipyard Ltd.) Again, at this point, whether it'll even be ordered is still up for question. Timeline too is function of that. The IAC project was a huge learning process - there was next to no local design experience and no shipyard in India had built anything half as large as the Vikrant. Even the basics like warship grade steel weren't available and core industrial capabilities had to built up simultaneously. That there was also a series of design changes midway (as IN upscaled its ambitions/requirements) didn't help.

    Having been through the grind, an upscaled IAC (supported by design consultancy from the US Navy) driven by conventional propulsion may not have as high a risk factor on the timeline; if the contract is signed in 2020, its quite feasible to have it fitted out by 2030 and operational in service by 2035. In contrast, if the IN opts for nuclear propulsion, the project almost certain to go over to 2040, given the lack of experience and the significant safety issues involved. At this point, its all hypothetical.

    Edit: also, are there any indications as to what the INs destroyer plans are after P15B? I feel like only seven PAR equipped aegis type DDGs by 2024 when the last P15B is expected to be commissioned is insufficient for two CSGs and other missions, so i assume the IN should probably have another DDG class under development or at least consider ordering more P15B DDGs?
    P15C? Possibly. Haven't heard anything concrete though. For the time being, 7 destroyers should be enough for two CBGs, I think. Four available at any time, two each for the two fleets. Supported by two Shivalik/Talwar class (later P-17A) frigates.

    The RN carrier group, for example, is expected to consist of one QE class CV, two Type 45s DDGs, one/two Type 26 FFGs and one Astute SSN. Same for the French Navy; one carrier, two DDGs plus two/three FFGs for ASW and one SSN.

  28. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vnomad View Post
    'Commissioning' (i.e. handover to the IN) is scheduled for Dec 2018 (so probably early-2019) but I suspect that's mostly a ceremonial thing unless they defer it further. The final bits of the aviation complex will also be delivered and integrated in 2019. IOC in 2020 with flight ops beginning 2020-21. FOC 2023. Of course I won't bet the house on it.
    Hmm I can't help but feel like if the aviation complex will only be integrated in 2019 then "true" sea trials (which for a carrier, means having aircraft handling trials i.e: launches and traps?) will only begin after that?

    I imagine delivering it in late 2018/early 2019 to the Navy could help expedite some functions, but even then I imagine the ship would have to undergo some form of yard sea trials before handing over it to the Navy even in its "uncompleted" state without aviation subsystems.


    Arresting gear, restraining gear, hydraulic stations, etc. And yes, it can't function as a carrier without them.
    Yikes.



    Same builder (Cochin Shipyard Ltd.) Again, at this point, whether it'll even be ordered is still up for question. Timeline too is function of that. The IAC project was a huge learning process - there was next to no local design experience and no shipyard in India had built anything half as large as the Vikrant. Even the basics like warship grade steel weren't available and core industrial capabilities had to built up simultaneously. That there was also a series of design changes midway (as IN upscaled its ambitions/requirements) didn't help.

    Having been through the grind, an upscaled IAC (supported by design consultancy from the US Navy) driven by conventional propulsion may not have as high a risk factor on the timeline; if the contract is signed in 2020, its quite feasible to have it fitted out by 2030 and operational in service by 2035. In contrast, if the IN opts for nuclear propulsion, the project almost certain to go over to 2040, given the lack of experience and the significant safety issues involved. At this point, its all hypothetical.
    Would CSL's drydock be big enough to accommodate a ship of the largest size for IAC-2 that's been proposed (65,000 ton CVN)?

    I don't follow the Indian Navy's developments super closely, but it was a bit of a surprise to me to read that the Indian Navy had yet to even settle on a design for IAC-2 yet. Reading some of the articles over the last year or so I was almost under the impression that it was fully decided IAC-2 would be a 65k ton CVN with EMALS.



    P15C? Possibly. Haven't heard anything concrete though. For the time being, 7 destroyers should be enough for two CBGs, I think. Four available at any time, two each for the two fleets. Supported by two Shivalik/Talwar class (later P-17A) frigates.

    The RN carrier group, for example, is expected to consist of one QE class CV, two Type 45s DDGs, one/two Type 26 FFGs and one Astute SSN. Same for the French Navy; one carrier, two DDGs plus two/three FFGs for ASW and one SSN.

    Yeah, I think 7 DDGs would allow 4 DDGs to be available for service at any one time, maybe 5 DDGs in a surge capacity, but I can't help but think if 4 of those DDGs are attached to a CSG then it leaves no aegis type DDGs for other missions like forming SAGs, though if the IN brass haven't got a new destroyer project in the pipeline for after P15B then I suppose they consider 7 aegis-type DDGs to be sufficient for their strategic requirements.

    It's interesting you mention the Royal Navy as well, as I hold the opinion that 6 Type 45s is not sufficient for their quite ambitious carrier plans as it'll leave them short staffed of DDGs for other non CSG related missions, but obviously funding cuts were a thing and finances remain an issue for them.



    Thanks for the comprehensiveness of your answers.

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