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Thread: Indian Air Force Thread - 19

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jō Asakura View Post
    Interesting, what the Junior DM's report to parliament alludes to is that Sukhoi's PAK-FA programme is running 2 years behind schedule- realistic RuAF IOC has slipped to 2018/19. Remember, the initial FGFA deliveries will be single seaters near-identical to their Russian counterparts (ACM Browne has already confirmed 166 single seaters and 48 2 seaters) also the IAF's single seaters will be manufactured in Russia.

    The 2 seaters, to be co-designed and exclusively manufactured by HAL- will not be joining the IAF until much later than 2019. That HAL wrist-slapping is just hokum. This is the first time preliminary unit costs have surfaced ($93-$97m) and I don't know how accurate the "specified 43 improvements" statement is, but clearly there is much more to come for the T-50/FGFA.
    I had the feeling they refer to the first IAF deliveries( initially slated for 2017, right ?)

  2. #92
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    Looks like India will opt for more C-17s before the line closes in late 2014 (as per current orders).

    India interested in more C-17s says Boeing

  3. #93
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    AW&ST on Indian program on AMCA , Stealth and UCAV , Tejas Mk3

    Big Plans
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    AW&ST on Indian program on AMCA , Stealth and UCAV , Tejas Mk3

    Big Plans
    That weight of AMCA should be with fuel.

  5. #95
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    the French Embassy hopes that the Rafale deal will be signed by the end of 2012. I have grave doubts about that, especially considering the rupee going weak so sharply. The deal price will go up significantly for India as a result of that.

    SOURCE:sunday-guardian.com

    Indian Air Force’s single largest contract for 126 fighters is yet to be signed. The French embassy has said that they are hopeful that the contract to buy the French Rafale aircraft will be signed by the end of this year. French company Dassault Aviation was chosen to supply the 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for the IAF for a deal worth approximately $18 billion. Rafale was declared the winner of a five-year long contest on 31 January 2012.

    Presently the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and Dassault Aviation are engaged in the final negotiations of the deal. When this newspaper contacted Dassault Aviation, there was no response on the matter.

    The French embassy told this newspaper, “Indian authorities and Dassault are currently negotiating and finalising all aspects of the Rafale contract in detail: technical definitions, terms and conditions, transfers of technologies and offsets. This discussion, which is complex by nature, is still going on. The final contract will comprise thousands of pages and everything has to be perfectly clear and defined before it is signed.”

    ...

    France saw a change of guard last month when François Hollande took over as the new French President from Nicolas Sarkozy, about which the French embassy in India has said that the change of government in France will have no influence on the nature of Indo-French strategic relations and French commitment towards India. Being technical and non-political, the Rafale deal will not be influenced by the democratic changeover in France, the embassy added.

    Former IAF chief S. Krishnaswamy told this newspaper, “There must be good reason for it to be delayed. There’s no need to rush, as the deal is big and complex and little delays don’t matter.”
    ...
    link

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackArcher View Post
    the French Embassy hopes that the Rafale deal will be signed by the end of 2012. I have grave doubts about that, especially considering the rupee going weak so sharply. The deal price will go up significantly for India as a result of that.



    link
    India may have some money in dollars or Euros it could use and for a contract so big it could probably negotiate terms of payment, End of the year may also give the rupee enough time to recover slightly.

    anyway by then the euro might have crashed to the bottom!
    Wrinkles wrinkles my kingdom fallen to a wrinkle

  7. #97
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    Mahindra Aerospace (actually Gipps Aero) conducted the first flight of the GA-10 ten seater utility prop recently. Saw this on BRF.

    link


  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt View Post
    India may have some money in dollars or Euros it could use and for a contract so big it could probably negotiate terms of payment, End of the year may also give the rupee enough time to recover slightly.

    anyway by then the euro might have crashed to the bottom!
    The problem is that the deal cost will inflate a lot due to the weak rupee. The MoD will be really hoping that a weak Euro may offset some of the increase.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackArcher View Post
    ormer IAF chief S. Krishnaswamy told this newspaper, “There must be good reason for it to be delayed. There’s no need to rush, as the deal is big and complex and little delays don’t matter.”
    link
    Can't understand this "no rush" attitude. Have the extra MKIs made the IAF so confident that it feels no real threat that cannot be handled in this decade?

    AFAIK, PLAAF numbers are simply unknown and tend to be surprisingly high when regiments suddenly make a public appearance. And, their ability to manufacture JF-17s (once they have it properly configured) in large numbers should give the IAF plenty of reason for worry,. And then there are incoming F-16s as well. But nope, they seem pretty relaxed.

    Hell and the Tejas seems to be taking its time as well.

    What gives? Any quick off the shelf purchases around the corner? UAE Mirages? Extra SMTs?

  10. #100
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    Super MKI should be around the corner.
    Off the shelf or not, no need to panic.
    Thrust the IAF Chief words we should.
    Last edited by haavarla; 13th June 2012 at 21:57.
    Thanks

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by uss novice View Post
    Can't understand this "no rush" attitude. Have the extra MKIs made the IAF so confident that it feels no real threat that cannot be handled in this decade?

    AFAIK, PLAAF numbers are simply unknown and tend to be surprisingly high when regiments suddenly make a public appearance. And, their ability to manufacture JF-17s (once they have it properly configured) in large numbers should give the IAF plenty of reason for worry,. And then there are incoming F-16s as well. But nope, they seem pretty relaxed.

    Hell and the Tejas seems to be taking its time as well.

    What gives? Any quick off the shelf purchases around the corner? UAE Mirages? Extra SMTs?
    First they were talking about Rafale deliveries in late 2014. Then the outlook shifted to 2015-2016. I am pretty sure with the level of customization needed and the speed of negotiation, it might as well slip to 2016-2017.

  12. #102
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    Ok, proof that the Super 30 upgrade (also referred to as the Su-30 avionics upgrade) will have significant commonalities with the Su-35 program.

    http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/nl/2012/...l_2012_web.pdf

    Go to Page 12. Check out the image of the Su-30 cockpit rig for avionics integration at DARE, Bangalore. Same layout with the characteristic dual MFDs of the Su-35. Same simulator is seen in the June issue with another senior IAF person visiting the facility.

    DARE is the DRDO lab which deals with fighter aircraft mission avionics (mission computers, cockpit displays and self protection suites).

    Also shows the program is fairly advanced and is proceeding without fuss with the work clearly preceding the formal sign off. The deal was formally signed after the Indian PM visited Russia in December.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pm...ukhois/888064/

    So far, what we now know:

    -Some 100 aircraft to be upgraded, the first 50 plus the new 42 delivered.

    -Joint responsibility: Overall architecture, avionics/cockpit glass layout with new MFDs, improved HOTAS etc, stealth features added

    - India: DRDO/HAL - an Integrated Mission computing suite, new radios (probably the software defined suite developed at HAL), new datalinks, an improved EW suite (wingtip jammers + MAWS/LWS - element may come from Russia), new mission software, launcher for Brahmos/Nirbhay, Astra BVR, Nirbhay cruise missile (first launch due in 2012)

    - Russia: Structural modifications for stealth, and aircraft to carry Brahmos (Sukhoi corp), internal improvements (possibly new APU+ECS) for higher power electronics, newer radar from NIIP - in Phase 1, Irbis level upgraded Bars, in Phase 2 AESA, newer weaponry- RVV-SD, RVV-MD mentioned, K-100 missiles (AWST). Su-35 mission software (e.g. sensor fusion is a possible). AWST and others (http://defencenewsofindia.blogspot.i...hive.html)have mentioned that India may acquire the Zhuk-AE for the upgrade, but NIIP has been confident that its proposal (heavily improved PESA for phase 1 and AESA in the next) would succeed based on the maturity of NIIP PESAs plus performance still available, Indian investment in Bars etc. Also possible that a variant of the NIIP AESA for the PAKFA is to be provided in Phase 1 itself.
    NIIP offers TWT upgrade of 5kw (same as Irbis) for current Bars and notes range increase of 2X. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mDvQ8xYRdS...00-29_0021.jpg

    The rest of the 170 aircraft will be upgraded to a revised standard based on technology developed for the PAKFA/FGFA.

    Prototypes ready for trials by 2016, with deliveries to commence by 2018.

    Overall, a pretty powerful upgrade. Super 30's with the Rafale, LCA, Upg MiG-29/Mirage/Jaguars are more than enough for the IAF to hold its own till the FGFA arrives.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teer View Post
    Ok, proof that the Super 30 upgrade (also referred to as the Su-30 avionics upgrade) will have significant commonalities with the Su-35 program.
    Yeah, I concur: as per Dec. 2012 contract, 42 new build (Irkut) Su-30MKIs to be manufactured as 'Super-30' Phase 1 with new 'Bars' antenna. However, as yet, it remains unclear if the new 'Bars' antenna will be retrofitted to the old 'back-end' hardware, or if the newer 'Irbis' 'back end' will be installed.

    Most likely it will be the latter, making for a relatively straight forward Phase 2 upgrade to PAK-FA/FGFA level AESA (the current AESA for PAK-FA has the 'back-end' of the 'Irbis'). Many tens of PAK-FA/FGFA radars (for 'Super-30') could be delivered before a single series PAK-FA/FGFA rolls off the production lines!

    Clearly, the Russkies and Indians have got their heads together on this one and there'll be much 'crossover' tech for 'Super-30'/Su-35S/PAK-FA/FGFA and the sizeable international upgrade market thereafter.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teer View Post
    http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/nl/2012/...l_2012_web.pdf

    Go to Page 12. Check out the image of the Su-30 cockpit rig for avionics integration at DARE, Bangalore. Same layout with the characteristic dual MFDs of the Su-35. Same simulator is seen in the June issue with another senior IAF person visiting the facility.
    Those dual MFD's were not the easiest thing to locate even on a 20 inch monitor

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinblade View Post
    Those dual MFD's were not the easiest thing to locate even on a 20 inch monitor
    Thanks. If one keeps their eyes open, a lot of interesting stuff is available in open sight.

    Take this June 2003 pdf of DRDO radar tech for instance - it shows how mature the org was in the domain even 9 years back but the interesting snippet. See page 7 with the picture of the Near Field Test Range. That antenna being tested there is clearly the LRTR for BMD, even when this program became pretty well known, there were no images of the LRTR available in public...

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jō Asakura View Post
    Yeah, I concur: as per Dec. 2012 contract, 42 new build (Irkut) Su-30MKIs to be manufactured as 'Super-30' Phase 1 with new 'Bars' antenna. However, as yet, it remains unclear if the new 'Bars' antenna will be retrofitted to the old 'back-end' hardware, or if the newer 'Irbis' 'back end' will be installed.

    Most likely it will be the latter, making for a relatively straight forward Phase 2 upgrade to PAK-FA/FGFA level AESA (the current AESA for PAK-FA has the 'back-end' of the 'Irbis'). Many tens of PAK-FA/FGFA radars (for 'Super-30') could be delivered before a single series PAK-FA/FGFA rolls off the production lines!

    Clearly, the Russkies and Indians have got their heads together on this one and there'll be much 'crossover' tech for 'Super-30'/Su-35S/PAK-FA/FGFA and the sizeable international upgrade market thereafter.

    Hi Jo, is there any link talking of the Bars Phase 1 upgrade being the new antenna? I would have thought they'd keep the existing antenna and put the Irbis backend. The Bars antenna has limited scan angles because of its weight, but has better gain.

    Also, is the Bars1-Bars-2 approach confirmed as versus the Zhuk AE one?

  17. #107
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    Another snippet on Super 30 program.

    Bharat Electronics annual performance disclosure:

    https://mm.jpmorgan.com/stp/t/c.do?i...-1nk4hdk%0D%0A
    "High value orders acquired in 2011/2012":

    Airborne EleCtronic Warfare System (Eagle Eye): Rs .85 Bn
    Clearly the first batch for the prototypes. This is per public info by BEL, the new Sukhoi ESM system. DARE (DRDO) would develop this along with BEL (the manufacturer). Based on recent info revealed by DARE, it is reasonable to surmise this system has digital receiver tech., and is able to detect, identify and classify LPI systems.

    Also, unrelated but still AF: Note orders for Aslesha radars by IAF. Rs 2,200 Mn implies a fairly decent quantity.

  18. #108
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    Teer, this is an extract of an interview with Yury Beliy, General-Director of Tikhomirov-NIIP @ MAKS 2011:

    Не забываем мы о предшествовавшей «Ирбису» РЛС с ФАР «Барс», находящейся в массовом серийном производстве и широко поставляемой в составе самолета Су-30МКИ и его модификаций вооруженным силам Индии, Малайзии и Алжира. Как известно, партию подобных самолетов, названных Су-30СМ, решило в ближайшее время заказать и российское
    Минобороны. У нас уже есть контракт с компанией «Сухой» по созданию варианта РЛС «Барс» для этих истребителей.

    We haven't forgotten about the radar that preceded "Irbis"- the "Bars" PESA, which has been in mass serial production and widely supplied as part of the Su-30MKI aircraft and variants for the armed forces of India, Malaysia and Algeria. It is well known that the Russian Ministry of Defence has decided to purchase such aircraft (Su-30SM), in the near future. We already have a contract with 'Sukhoi' on the delivery of a variant of the "Bars" radar.

    Участвуем мы и в программе модернизации Су-30МКИ для индийских ВВС. На первом этапе этих работ предусмотрено дальнейшее повышение характеристик РЛС «Барс» с имеющейся ФАР, а затем возможно оснащение ее АФАР.
    Но мы считаем, что такая модернизация «Барса» должна быть увязана с программой создания РЛС с АФАР для совместно разрабатываемого Россией и Индией Перспективного многоцелевого истребителя пятого поколения ПМИ, чтобы применить полученные наработки по радиолокационному комплексу с АФАР для последующей модернизации строевых самолетов Су-30МКИ.

    We are participating in the modernization programme of the IAF's Su-30MKI. The first phase of these works calls for increasing the performance characteristics of "Bars" with the available PESA, and then it's possible to equip it with AESA.
    But we believe that such a modernization of "Bars" must be linked with the creation of the AESA radar being developed jointly by Russia and India for the PAK-FA/FGFA, in order to apply the received experience to the AESA intended for further modernization of the Su-30MKI units.


    http://take-off.ru/pdf/10_2011.pdf
    (page 35).
    I'm not absolutely certain that the Phase 1 upgrade will include a new "Bars" antenna, but the RuAF has ordered a "variant" of the "Bars" and I would doubt NIIP could achieve such an increase in reported performance by retaining the old antenna combined with 'Irbis' back end and software upgrades.

    This is believed to be the new 'Bars' array (as you can see the assembly and finish is far superior to the current version):



    ...or maybe there's an outside chance that a gimbal-less 'Irbis' array will be fitted (above right).

  19. #109
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    Re TEER

    Is there any plan to have ground based variant of Indian Emb based AEW radar?

  20. #110
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    DRDO Chief Takes A Spin In A Gripen


    "Can we please name it as LCA Mk. 345713 so that it sees atleast some squadron service?!"
    PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
    Have a good one..

  21. #111
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    What is this mystery 20 KN engine HAL newsletter talks about ?

    Page 3
    http://www.hal-india.com/HAL-CONNECT...ISSUE%2013.pdf
    Last edited by Twinblade; 12th June 2012 at 12:57.

  22. #112
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    ADE's 'AURA' UCAV breaks cover:



    http://livefist.blogspot.co.uk/

  23. #113
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    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...e-concern.html

    The French Rafale has been short-listed for detailed contract negotiations in the MMRCA competition. This programme for 126 aircraft, despite licensed production of all but 18 aircraft, is still likely to cost between US $10 and 20 billion. While it was presumed a few years ago that funds for defence would not be a constraint in the future, a slowing economy has led to these funds being curtailed. The Ministry of Finance questioned the Rs. 65,000 crore earmarked for infrastructure development and raising of new mountain strike corps earlier this year, while the defence budget for 2011-12 saw cuts of a few thousand crore of rupees. The nominal increase in the defence budget for 2012-13 is about 17 per cent, which amounts to a real increase of just about 8 per cent after taking into consideration the inflation rate of 9 per cent. The writing on the wall is clear: resource constraints are looming for the armed forces. Imports of defence equipment do not contribute to GDP growth while indigenous design and manufacture do. The IAF would do well to look at indigenous development of equipment to maintain or build up numbers. While this is in progress, retirement of in-service equipment would have to be delayed somewhat to maintain numbers at the desired levels.
    Go to link for more information
    Wrinkles wrinkles my kingdom fallen to a wrinkle

  24. #114
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    Honest or a set up either way how dangerous is it for the P-8I and the C 17 or C130 India has ordered?

    The defense industry supply chain is rife with counterfeit parts, and efforts to police it are failing. The potential that these parts could compromise the quality of U.S.-made defense systems is bad enough, but on top of that Chinese components could offer a back door to cybersnoops, escalating the threat of cyberspying and intellectual theft.
    http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....p68-461194.xml
    Wrinkles wrinkles my kingdom fallen to a wrinkle

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    LCH TD-2




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    Ah, the new wings have been fitted.

    They remind me a bit of the Mi-35 wings.

    Payload should probably remain the same.

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by killerbean View Post
    Ah, the new wings have been fitted.

    They remind me a bit of the Mi-35 wings.

    Payload should probably remain the same.
    Looks like the wings will provide some lift during forward flight.Cannot quite figure out the necessity of those being so large though.
    The Mi 28 also sport similar stubs.Ka 50/52 and apache stubs are also quite large but not inclined.
    PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
    Have a good one..

  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jō Asakura View Post
    ADE's 'AURA' UCAV breaks cover:
    http://livefist.blogspot.co.uk/
    Oh, hai X-47B.

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkut View Post
    Oh, hai X-47B.
    More like nEUROn.

  30. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayrubik View Post
    Looks like the wings will provide some lift during forward flight.Cannot quite figure out the necessity of those being so large though.
    just enough lift to support its own weight, no more. after all, to generate lift drag is increased as well.
    I believe the shape and size has to do with the need to handle the enormous stresses generated during rapid upward or downward acceleration, like say during a crash-landing. it would not do for the munition stubs to break away and damage the rotors or worse, the cockpit.
    HAL - one step ahead of IBM

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