Key.Aero Network
Register Free

Page 1 of 24 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 701

Thread: Indian Air Force Thread - 19

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,558

    Indian Air Force Thread - 19



    C/O Vishal J.

    IAF thread 18
    PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
    Have a good one..

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    5,725
    Nice, a normally named thread for once.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    4,560
    P-8I looks beautiful , it would be fun friendly contest of IN P-8I on a ASW trial of INS Chakra ......... where else you could find such friendly contest
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,002
    ^^^
    It doesn't need to end up friendly. Its still an American system and the chances are high that they will get all the details of the friendly match from the data base. Only the Yanks will know if the system is giving them back real-time or delayed feedback of what all the P-8I is coming in contact with.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4,893
    Quote Originally Posted by JangBoGo View Post
    ^^^
    It doesn't need to end up friendly. Its still an American system and the chances are high that they will get all the details of the friendly match from the data base. Only the Yanks will know if the system is giving them back real-time or delayed feedback of what all the P-8I is coming in contact with.
    Surely the IN have had enough of a forethought to build signals analysis equipment to understand where the data is going, plus if i remember correctly a lot of the coms systems are non US
    Wrinkles wrinkles my kingdom fallen to a wrinkle

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    4,560
    IN would have built enough safe guard to check the oppsec of its equipment to ensure no one can get unauthorised access to data.

    Having said that it is not impossible to get some information from the tons of black box that might be fitted into P-8I and that needs maintenance by OEM from time to time ... but thats not P-8I specific but generally speaking for any aircraft or systems that has many black boxes that you are not sure how it works.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,558
    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    P-8I looks beautiful , it would be fun friendly contest of IN P-8I on a ASW trial of INS Chakra ......... where else you could find such friendly contest
    Haha correct about that!
    I wonder though what they do during exercises with other navies?Do they allow other MRA to track the kilos or?
    PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
    Have a good one..

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,558
    Old pix but didnt see this before..
    PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
    Have a good one..

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,002
    ^^^ that is completely refreshing and beautiful. The dull grey is boring, they should have retained the original scheme atleast for the various prototypes.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    4,560
    Quote Originally Posted by rayrubik View Post
    I wonder though what they do during exercises with other navies?Do they allow other MRA to track the kilos or?
    With other navies namely Western/US navies IN brings in U-209 for exercise and with Russian Navy they get in Kilo , AFAIK we have never brought in Kilo against western navies or U-209 against Russian , Since these submarine are from parents nations they are aware of signature of these submarine , how ever ASW warfare is much more than signature its also about tactics and doctorine and they usually check their tactics during such exercise.

    Although i have been told reliably in past IN managed to get Kilo close to US CBG enough for firing solution as they pass through Indian ocean or Arabian sea ... just to add here its normal practice carried by navies world over to tail the others assets.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,545
    Antony told the parliament today that Kaveri (as it is) would be integrated on Tejas in three years. That is a little later than what I heard from a chaiwalla.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,903
    Quote Originally Posted by JangBoGo View Post
    ^^^
    It doesn't need to end up friendly. Its still an American system and the chances are high that they will get all the details of the friendly match from the data base. Only the Yanks will know if the system is giving them back real-time or delayed feedback of what all the P-8I is coming in contact with.
    Good grief! That assumes stupidity, complacency & technical incompetence on the part of the Indian Navy, & stupidity, ignorance & misplaced contempt for the IN on the part of the Americans.

    You have a very low opinion of the IN.

    Just think about it for a moment. You can easily track whether the aircraft is transmitting anything. You can easily cross-check sensor data against other sensors to see if it's real-time or delayed.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,002
    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Good grief! That assumes stupidity, complacency & technical incompetence on the part of the Indian Navy, & stupidity, ignorance & misplaced contempt for the IN on the part of the Americans.

    You have a very low opinion of the IN.

    Just think about it for a moment. You can easily track whether the aircraft is transmitting anything. You can easily cross-check sensor data against other sensors to see if it's real-time or delayed.
    your are entitled to your views and I'm to mine... Austin have already said few points on the matter. As long as the critical stuffs are from the Americans, the chance of access to the data stored and exchanged is possible. If none of the critical equipments and systems were of American origin and was Indian, then there was no need for the P-8I in the first place. India would have been better off in integrating its own mission suite and its equipments by selecting an appropriate platform like B373 or A320 or Tu-204 family. That is what India is at least doing in the case of AEW with Embraer.

    w.r.t to prioritizing the need and funding for naval assets, I certainly do have a low opinion about the IN.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,002
    Quote Originally Posted by Twinblade View Post
    Antony told the parliament today that Kaveri (as it is) would be integrated on Tejas in three years. That is a little later than what I heard from a chaiwalla.
    There can't be bad news than that. I truly wonder if these guys understand the value of time.

    Kaveri Engine

    The DRDO has not fixed any time frame to full develop the Kaveri Aero Engine for the LCA, Tejas. LCA, Tejas requires 90 kN thrust class engine to meet its operational requirement, whereas Kaveri Engine does not fully meet this requirement. Therefore, it has been decided to use variants of Kaveri Engine to power Unmanned Air Vehicle and also for marine applications.

    Two important milestones of Kaveri project have been successfully achieved:-

    (i) Completion of Official Altitude Testing for 73 hrs at Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM), Russia.

    (ii) Flying Test Bed (FTB) trials for 55 hrs with IL-76 Aircraft conducted at Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI), Russia.

    Endurance testing for about 2100 hrs has been conducted at Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE).

    It is planned to commence flight trials for Technology Demonstration of Kaveri Engine with LCA Tejas Mk-I in about 3 years time.

    This information was given by Minister of Defence Shri A K Antony in a written reply to Shri Bal Kumar Patel in Lok Sabha today.

    PK/NN
    (Release ID :83706)
    http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=83706

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,557
    cross posting from BRF..apparently the IAF has accepted the first Tejas fighter from DRDO for user acceptance testing. Was this LSP-7 ? after all LSP-7 and 8 were supposed to be handed over to the IAF for acceptance tests. Not sure how accurate this news is since there have been no other reports on this. This report is translated from Russian

    Indian Air Force received the first light fighter Tejas, worked out by the Organization of the Indian Defense Research and Development (DRDO) in 1983, reports The Times of India. The transfer took place on the plane at the airport in Bangalore, HAL. Now the next few months, the Indian Air Force will conduct tests on the Tejas combat use, then it can be accepted for service.

    In total, the Indian Air Force got a long Tejas; 19 more such aircraft will be transferred to the military in the near future. In total, the Indian Air Force ordered 40 fighter aircraft Tejas, which will be formed from the two squadrons. On the future plans of the purchase of combat aircraft while it is not known. Tejas squadron will be based near Koimbattura and Tuticorin in Tamil Nadu. As expected, the new fighter will be formally adopted by the Air Force to the beginning of 2012. Tejas was created as a replacement of obsolete Soviet MiG-21 fighters. The fighter capable of speeds up to 1.9 thousand kilometers per hour, and its flight range is about two thousand kilometers. The fighter is armed with 23-millimeter cannon, and has eight points of suspension for various types of missiles, as well as adjustable and svobodnopadayuschih bombs. At present, based on the deck creates a version of the Tejas aircraft for the Indian Navy, as well as training and combat aircraft. In addition, now DRDO is developing Tejas Mk.II, a significantly improved version of the fighter.
    Last edited by BlackArcher; 15th May 2012 at 00:02.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Glarus/ Switzerland
    Posts
    236


    India Tests First Intercontinental Ballistic Missile

    India tested on Thursday its first long-range intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) able to carry a nuclear warhead deep into China or Europe, bringing Delhi into a small club of nations with intercontinental nuclear capability.

    Defense Minister A K Antony described the missile’s test as an "immaculate success.”

    "The nation stands tall today. We have joined the elite club of nations (possessing ICBM capability)," he told the DRDO head on phone following the launch.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    3,561
    I really want to take a ride in your time machine.
    Love Planes, Live Planes

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,558
    Just days after the IAF complaint about HAL further news suggests that HAL is messing things up...in the Su 30 line as well..



    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/d.../1/188918.html
    PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
    Have a good one..

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,545
    Comparing MiG-29 and Mirage 2000








    Source:
    Vayu Aerospace and Defence Review

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,558
    Nice article. Though this article gives us the account of the arguably first account of Mig 29 going against a M2000 in the world , let alone the IAF , it became a regular feature later in the intra IAF exercises.And without a doubt it has been shown that Mig 29 trumps over a M2K almost everytime in all regimes.Though having a less refined radar than the M2K , surprisingly the mig 29 with sarh missiles was quite a match if not better than the M2k with sarh in bvr too.
    If aircraft uptimes/downtimes are considered it will be a different story altogether.
    PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
    Have a good one..

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,558
    ...and the Kaveri saga continues..
    Outlook bleak for India’s Kaveri jet engine
    

    Print
    By: GREG WALDRON SINGAPORE

    India has no fixed plans to fully develop the indigenous Kaveri fighter engine for the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) Tejas aircraft.

    "The Defence Research Development Organisation [DRDO] has not fixed any timeframe to fully develop the Kaveri Aero Engine for the [Tejas]," says defence minister AK Antony.

    The announcement is the closest New Delhi has come to abandoning the long-delayed engine programme, which has suffered from major performance issues and cost overruns.

    Antony noted that the Tejas requires an engine capable of producing 90kN (20,200lb) of thrust, but the "Kaveri does not fully meet this requirement."

    "Therefore, it has been decided to use variants of Kaveri engine to power unmanned air vehicles and also for marine applications," he says.

    He adds, however, that a Kaveri jet engine could be tested aboard a Tejas Mk 1 in another three years. This suggests that major issues still need to be ironed out before the engine is married to a manned fighter.

    Antony made the comments in a written reply to a question in parliament.

    The Tejas Mk I uses the General Electric F404 power plant, while the planned Tejas Mk II will use the General Electric F414.

    In March, Antony told parliament that the Kaveri's development cost was Rs28.39 billion ($528 million), nearly 10 times greater than the Rs3.83 billion originally allocated.
    From Flightglobal
    PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
    Have a good one..

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    898
    this is old bad news being repackaged as new bad news, of course that's what you would expect in general from international media reporting on Indian defence projects. make the good look bad and the bad worse.

    kaveri on LCA is meant as a test bed and not anything more, kaveri in it's ver 2 avatar is expected to power AMCA and the timelines do not allow for it to power the LCA. this is known since last 2 years if not more.
    HAL - one step ahead of IBM

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,557
    Finally a video of NP-1's first flight. The view from the rear cockpit seems amazing ! Seems to be a clear influence from the Su-30MKI where the rear-seater gets a very good forward view..this must've definitely been an IAF requirement for the LCA trainers.

    http://tejas.gov.in/press_release/np...t flight video
    Last edited by BlackArcher; 17th May 2012 at 20:20.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,002
    In the below video we'll see "pudding" mentioned in the above article, Air Marshall Padamjith Singh Ahluwalia, in the discussion on selection of Rafale in MMRCA.
    NDTV - What does the Rafale deal mean for the Indian Air Force?
    I'm not sure if this is the same talk show, but I did saw the Retd Air Marshall commenting negative about the MiG-29 by completely hiding the causes behind the serviceability of the MiG-29s.

    Quote Originally Posted by rayrubik View Post
    Nice article. Though this article gives us the account of the arguably first account of Mig 29 going against a M2000 in the world , let alone the IAF , it became a regular feature later in the intra IAF exercises.And without a doubt it has been shown that Mig 29 trumps over a M2K almost everytime in all regimes.Though having a less refined radar than the M2K , surprisingly the mig 29 with sarh missiles was quite a match if not better than the M2k with sarh in bvr too.
    If aircraft uptimes/downtimes are considered it will be a different story altogether.
    The article says they also made good use of their radar against the m2k.
    Regarding the uptimes, it mostly had to do with the service network which was broken due to the political situation that evolved during that time.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,002
    BA,
    your video link is not working...

    Here is the alternate link... First Flight of LCA NP 1 on 27th April 2012

    It can be watched in this link. Very good.
    http://www.tejas.gov.in/press_releas...st_flight.html

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,476
    Quote Originally Posted by Twinblade View Post
    Comparing MiG-29 and Mirage 2000

    Source:
    Vayu Aerospace and Defence Review
    to summarize

    MiG-29 Spanks M2K in raw performance
    MiG-29 engine thirstier but more power means less time in afterburner so range issue nullified against M2k
    MiG-29 skin rougher more crudely built than M2K
    MiG-29 avionics spanks M2K when actualy working

    M2K spanks MiG-29 in finish

    but when combining with other reports from IAF
    M2K spanks MiG-29 in serviceability and uptimes
    M2K spanks MiG-29 in A2G

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,237
    The article while very nice on the narrative stand point has clearly an agenda in promoting the Mig-35 for the MMRCA deal.
    I would love to read the point of view of those you flew against the Mig-29 during that exercise.
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,079
    Quote Originally Posted by J-20 Hotdog View Post
    to summarize

    MiG-29 Spanks M2K in raw performance
    MiG-29 engine thirstier but more power means less time in afterburner so range issue nullified against M2k
    MiG-29 skin rougher more crudely built than M2K
    MiG-29 avionics spanks M2K when actualy working

    M2K spanks MiG-29 in finish

    but when combining with other reports from IAF
    M2K spanks MiG-29 in serviceability and uptimes
    M2K spanks MiG-29 in A2G
    I recall the late BHarry mentioning something like a 7:1 BVR score in favor of the fulcrum in IAF Dact (Acig.org). The N019 was much more powerful than the RDI?, and the R27 has longer legs than the Matra Super 530.

    In WVR, apart from the advantages mentioned by AM Masand in the above article, let us not forget the incredible advantage provided by the Archer/HMS combo - something that USAF F-16s found rather painful vs. Luftwaffe 29s.

    Overall, pure A2A performance, BVR/WVR, the fulcrum comes out on top vs. both the M2k and even the F-16.

    Multirole and A2G, however, the other two are clearly ahead.

    Serviceability is a draw with a marginal advantage to the teen/M2k. The fulcrum's complaints were mainly due to the break up of the FSU. It is not as much an issue today.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,557
    This article reminded me of Kedar Karmarkar's pics and I looked for some of Air Marshal Harish Masand at Aero India 2009..the MiG-35 didn't come for AI-11.



    and a much younger Harish Masand with a Hunter in the background..


    this is an article on him. It reveals that "Khappuski", the nickname that AM Ahluwahlia gave him was a corruption of "Khappe" (meaning left handed)

    On the morning of 04 Dec 71, No 37 Squadron ‘the Black Panthers’ lovingly called the “Black Panties” by other IAF squadrons, launched their very first mission of the war, with four Hunters. This was the first Squadron to get the camera nose Hunter (FR Mk 10) and had already flown several recce missions in to East Pakistan since July '71.
    The Hunters were configured with four 100 Gal long range tanks and only gun ammo. The mission was lead by the CO, Wg Cdr SP ‘Supi’ Kaul (later Chief of the Air staff) with Flt Lt SK ‘Billu’ Sangar as no 2 and Sqn Ldr AM Mascarenhas as no 3 and Fg Offr Harish ‘Khappe’( left handed) Masand as no 4. The mission was search and destroy targets of opportunity at Tezgaon airfield, which was at 181 NMs with a small detour for the IP- Rupsi, while the Range of Action of the Hunter at LO-LO was 167 NM in that configuration.

    TOT was 0705 and a pair of MiG-21 FLs from 4 Sqn out of Guwahati was to RV overhead the target to tackle the CAP if any. A second mission by 17 Sqn Hunters was also to be in the area a few mins behind this force.

    Mascarenhas’ aircraft did not start and the 3 aircraft were airborne on time at 0630 into a blue sky with limitless visibility. However, Masand’s undercarriage failed to retract, but he kept tagging along for nearly 30-40 NMs trying to raise it, finally managing to raise it with the emergency override.

    2 mins after leaving the IP at low level, Masand on the left as a single aircraft, saw two silver Sabres (PAF 14 sqn ac out of Tezgaon, Dacca) swinging from their 3’0’ clock to 6 ‘o’clock at about 5 Nm. Having reported them the formation continued on course to target as they had no fuel to engage and kept trying to raise the MiG 21 CAP. The Sabres closed in to about 3000 yards by which time the form was at 480 Kts.

    At this time the Sabre behind SP Kaul dropped his tanks, and Masand seeing the whoosh of the fuel thought it was a missile launch and ordered a hard turn to the right. Although this Sabre eased off he feared that there would be another Sabre behind his tail, and continued through 180 deg of turn so as to get cross cover from the other section. On rolling out he saw a Sabre shooting at Billu from around 500 yds.

    Forgetting to punch his tanks Masand maneuvered behind the Sabre which continued to ignore him and closed to approx 150 yds. But by force of habit, he pressed the camera button rather than the trigger and had closed to less than 100yds by the time he dropped the trigger and fired. At this time the two were at approx 500-700 feet of the ground and the Sabre reversed left to evade, but at that close range, the four guns blew him up (on ground they found that Massand had fired only 2 rounds per gun a total of 8, he was that close).

    Masand continued right calling for the form to roll out approx 350 and head home. By then the MiGs were overhead and reported seeing the chute of the Pakistani pilot on R/T (sadly the PAF pilot- Flt Lt Saeed Afzal Khan of 14 sqn PAF is said to have ejected safely but was lynched by Mukti Bahini guerilla fighters). Masand never caught up with the rest of the formation and climbed so as to save fuel, landing with only 100lbs a side.

    On the ground he found that the formation that was being shot at was part of the 17 Squadron formation of Sqn Ldr Lele and Fg Offr ‘Buster’ Bains his course mate which had ended up ahead of time and in the same general area. Buster had 42 holes in his aircraft and was saved by the fact that the Sabres were using only ball ammo. Sqn Ldr Javed Afzal, the PAF formation leader has been incorrectly credited with this kill.

    Masand was awarded a Vir Chakra for this action and became the youngest pilot to get an air to air kill in this war being 24 yrs and 8months at the time and hence also the last serving VrC from 1971 to retire. He later went on to command No 28 Sqn (the first supersonics) on the MiG 29 on which he became one of the greatest exponents of the low level aerobatic art. He finally retired as an Air Marshal in 2005.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,476
    Quote Originally Posted by uss novice View Post
    I recall the late BHarry mentioning something like a 7:1 BVR score in favor of the fulcrum in IAF Dact (Acig.org). The N019 was much more powerful than the RDI?, and the R27 has longer legs than the Matra Super 530.

    In WVR, apart from the advantages mentioned by AM Masand in the above article, let us not forget the incredible advantage provided by the Archer/HMS combo - something that USAF F-16s found rather painful vs. Luftwaffe 29s.

    Overall, pure A2A performance, BVR/WVR, the fulcrum comes out on top vs. both the M2k and even the F-16.

    Multirole and A2G, however, the other two are clearly ahead.

    Serviceability is a draw with a marginal advantage to the teen/M2k. The fulcrum's complaints were mainly due to the break up of the FSU. It is not as much an issue today.
    its a bit of an unfair comparison in the end

    Mirage 2000 is the size of a Gripen

    MiG-29 is the weight of the F-15A and almost the same size too!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

- Part of the    Network -

KEY AERO AVIATION NEWS

MAGAZINES

AVIATION FORUM

SHOP

 

WEBSITES