Ukrainian Air Force Thread 1

[J-20 Hotdog]

Since the Air Force is actually bigger than many of the other air forces in Europe.

28 fighter jets, 16 helicopters to guard Ukraine's airspace during Euro 2012
Apr 25 at 11:44 | Interfax-Ukraine
Vasylkiv – A total of 28 fighter jets and 16 helicopters will guard Ukraine's airspace during the Euro 2012 European Football Championship in June, Director of the Operations Department and Deputy Chief of Staff of the Command of the Ukrainian Air Force, Major-General Viktor Hamora, has said.

"We will use 28 MiG-29 and Su-27 aircraft, 16 Mi-8 and Mi-24 helicopters of the Armed Forces, air defense systems that are located near the host cities, radio engineering troops, and more than 3,000 troops," he told reporters in Vasylkiv on Tuesday, April 24.

Read more: http://www.kyivpost.com/news/euro201...#ixzz1ugWirXOg

[AutoStick]

One of Ukrain's Su 27's RIAT last year . I also bought a Ukrainian air force cap badge off them for £2.00..

[TR1]

In terms of what actually flies, it is certainly not bigger than many air forces.
State is pretty bad, but at least in recent years there have been a number of KapRemonts carried out on a handful of Su-27s, MiG-29s, and Su-25s.
Also, a number of Mi-24s are getting overhauled, and fitted with new engines.

[AutoStick]

Well they can also afford to run one of these !!

[J-20 Hotdog]

In terms of what actually flies, it is certainly not bigger than many air forces.
State is pretty bad, but at least in recent years there have been a number of KapRemonts carried out on a handful of Su-27s, MiG-29s, and Su-25s.
Also, a number of Mi-24s are getting overhauled, and fitted with new engines.

Ukraines biggest mistake was to not retire a good chunk of them after independence and save money on operation/maintainance costs that could've went to upgrading their newer airframes.

they also should've traded bombers for navy ships.

[swerve]

Yup. Should have retired a large number of aircraft of all types, offered some for sale & kept some as spares sources (unless spares stocks were large enough not to need them). Some types should have been scheduled for complete retirement, with no training of new air or ground crew for them. That way, they'd have kept more aircraft actually usable, & relatively up to date.

[TR1]

They did retire (park on reserve airfields) most of the inventory within the first decade of independence.

[rsetiawan]

shouldnt the title of this trit 'J20-Hotdog Ukraine AF thread' instead havarla

[J-20 Hotdog]

They did retire (park on reserve airfields) most of the inventory within the first decade of independence.

just the really old aircraft that should've been retired. but things like 80 MiG-29s.. they don't really need 80 MiG-29s.

all they needed were to keep these 2 planes

and

[martinez]

Well, well, digi fulcrum from Ukraine.... seems like the digital thunder camo

[TR1]

Hmm, looks like they found some inspiration!

[a89]

all they needed were to keep these 2 planes

I hope you are being ironic!

[J-20 Hotdog]

Well, well, digi fulcrum from Ukraine.... seems like the digital thunder camo

wow almost dot to dot the same. but surprised Ukraine didn't go with a low viz fin flash. looks better than that blue digi camo on their Flanker makes it look like a digitized version of this paint

[J-20 Hotdog]

I hope you are being ironic!

Tu-22M could be vulnerable to enemy fighters, thats what the Su-15 is for.

[martinez]

but surprised Ukraine didn't go with a low viz fin flash.

they have a trident, not a flash on the fin.

[J-20 Hotdog]

they have a trident, not a flash on the fin.

the fin flash is a trident, no conflict here

as for what Ukraine should've done after independence.

They inherited 80 MiG-29s and 70 Flankers 120 Su-24, 36 Su-25s, etc
They should've retired or sold all MiG-29s and eventually all Su-24s.. keeping only the MR versions. Focus on the 70 flankers and upgrade them to relevance. Throw in a Litening pod on it for better A2G like Kazakhstan's Su-27s. Eventually work their way to Su-30MKK or MKIs for increased multi-role capabilities and Su-30MKR to replace the Su-24MR like Algeria did.

Retire MiG-25, 23, 27, keep MiG-21s for a little longer, keep Su-17 until Litening pod equipped Su-30s are in service. retire all Tupolevs.

Retire all Su-25s. keep only 2 squads of L-39s and have the rest for spares
Retire some Il-76, they don't need that capability. Retire some of the Mi-8s. License produce more W-3 Sokols because the Mi-8 is too big for many missions.

also depends when Ukraine can make up its mind on their political orientation.. do they want to be pro-west or pro-Kremlin?

[TR1]

They pretty much did all that though.
Most of the assets were parked on a spare airfield and remain there to this day.

It's not like they tried to keep too much and in the end failed to keep anything operational.

As funds have become available, a small number of Su-27, MiG-29, and SU-25 are going through overhaul + slight modernization.

[J-20 Hotdog]

They pretty much did all that though.
Most of the assets were parked on a spare airfield and remain there to this day.

It's not like they tried to keep too much and in the end failed to keep anything operational.

As funds have become available, a small number of Su-27, MiG-29, and SU-25 are going through overhaul + slight modernization.

not quite. They kept both Su-27 and MiG-29 and in larger than needed quantities. they only need one type. MiG-29 could do it too but Su-27 series has better upgrade path and a brighter future.

they don't need Su-25.

[TR1]

MIG-29 is cheaper to operate than larger Su-27, and they have domestic repair facilities. I see no problem operating both types, in small numbers, which is what they do.


Between the retiring of Su-24, the Su-25 remains the only ready A2G asset, I think retiring it would be madness.
Certainly Ukraine feels they need it, since they use rare funds to overhaul several.

[J-20 Hotdog]

MIG-29 is cheaper to operate than larger Su-27, and they have domestic repair facilities. I see no problem operating both types, in small numbers, which is what they do.


Between the retiring of Su-24, the Su-25 remains the only ready A2G asset, I think retiring it would be madness.
Certainly Ukraine feels they need it, since they use rare funds to overhaul several.

but operating two types instead of one is also expensive. but like i said, either center it upon one type like MiG-29 or Su-27. Multirole upgrades will replace the need of Su-24 and 25 in the mid term, like what Algeria is doing.
Su-25 is a specialized aircraft and Ukraine has no situation to use it unless it plans to either fight hordes of NATO or Russian tanks, which while I know some wish for, unlikely to happen.

They do not have many kavkaz people to be concerned about.. only problem is Bulgarian black sea fleet.

[Freehand]

It looks as if there are two digital blue flankers in Ukrainian service.

http://spotters.net.ua/file/?id=62891&size=large

[J-20 Hotdog]

It looks as if there are two digital blue flankers in Ukrainian service.

http://spotters.net.ua/file/?id=62891&size=large

actually it might look better if they went with greens instead of blues given Ukraines geography!

[TR1]

Il-76 doing its thing.

[rsetiawan]

MIG-29 is cheaper to operate than larger Su-27, and they have domestic repair facilities. I see no problem operating both types, in small numbers, which is what they do.


Between the retiring of Su-24, the Su-25 remains the only ready A2G asset, I think retiring it would be madness.
Certainly Ukraine feels they need it, since they use rare funds to overhaul several.

Flanker is cheaper to operate if you have large nation....
in the long run it is more durable and expandable too, plus engine with longer MTBF...

for those reason Malaysia fond of their Su-30MKM and not their MiG-29N

[TR1]

MiG-29N and Su-30MKM are hardly comparable.

If they bought a MiG-29M variant, then we could talk about engine/airframe life and operational costs.

MiG-29N should be compared to first gen, vanilla Su-27.

I don't see how the Su-27 is cheaper to operate than the MiG-29 for Ukraine at all.

[a89]

They did retire (park on reserve airfields) most of the inventory within the first decade of independence.

Yep. MiG-23/27 and Su-15 were retired quite quickly. They could have traded the Tu-160s for Flanker/Fulcrum spares, but the US offered to pay in cash for the destruction of the airframes, so they went for it. Kazakhstan exchanged Tu-95 for MiG-31 and spares.

[TR1]

http://russianplanes.net/ID78609
http://russianplanes.net/ID78608
http://russianplanes.net/ID78607

Ukranian MiG-29 digicamo looking good!

[Freehand]

I like the trident on the tail section

[a89]

According to Ukrainian defence minister, combat pilots flew in January-March 1.5 hours. Those in Belarus managed 10.5. Polish ones got 100 for whole of 2011. Flight time will be ramped up to 20 hours by July and 40 by the end of the year.

http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang...=read&id=24383

[TR1]

According to Ukrainian defence minister, combat pilots flew in January-March 1.5 hours. Those in Belarus managed 10.5. Polish ones got 100 for whole of 2011. Flight time will be ramped up to 20 hours by July and 40 by the end of the year.

http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang...=read&id=24383

Good if it actually goes through.

I want to see some joint UkAF and RuAF exercises.