AVIC JF-17 Thunder versus SAAB JAS-39 Gripen

[JSLLL4]

which is better and in terms of what?

[Samudragupta]

Why, JF17 of course --- It has DSI!

[JSLLL4]

Why, JF17 of course --- It has DSI!

Good point. JF-17 has a more technologically advanced airframe. Don't forget that JF-17 is the world's first plane that incorporates DSI, both in the prototype stage and in the operational stage.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gripen

[JSLLL4]

Can Gripen carry anti-ship cruise missiles like JF-17 which is armed with YJ-83 missiles that have a range of over 255+ km?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-je2VLDhzDN...25283%2529.jpg

[Vnomad]

Good point. JF-17 has a more technologically advanced airframe. Don't forget that JF-17 is the world's first plane that incorporates DSI, both in the prototype stage and in the operational stage.

Umm.... you realise you're comparing an all metal airframe to one featuring extensive use of composites?

[JSLLL4]

Umm.... you realise you're comparing an all metal airframe to one featuring extensive use of composites?

Doesn't JF-17 use composites extensively?

[Vnomad]

Doesn't JF-17 use composites extensively?

Please refer the to great findouter.

If this thread is a parody or something, I confess I don't get it.

[JSLLL4]

What does Gripen's composites do? JF-17 has a thrust to weight ratio of 0.95 while Gripen has a thrust to weight ratio of 0.97.

[eagle]

Can Gripen carry anti-ship cruise missiles like JF-17 which is armed with YJ-83 missiles that have a range of over 255+ km?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-je2VLDhzDN...25283%2529.jpg

Yes, RBS-15. Which is top secret and all so it's impossible to find public domain sources about it.
But its pointless anyway to compare JF-17 to Gripen. Since the former has DSI, it is superior in every way. You really should compare JF-17 to F-22. Maybe the Raptor stands a chance even though it doesn't have the mighty DSI.

[TR1]

Why, JF17 of course --- It has DSI!

Don't forget the Generation Zwei radar- the amazing cockpit, the STATE OF THE ART WS-10 engine, and devastating PLA A2A missiles.

The answer is clear.

[JSLLL4]

Yes, RBS-15. Which is top secret and all so it's impossible to find public domain sources about it.
But its pointless anyway to compare JF-17 to Gripen. Since the former has DSI, it is superior in every way. You really should compare JF-17 to F-22. Maybe the Raptor stands a chance even though it doesn't have the mighty DSI.

LMAO

and RBS-15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS-15

[MSphere]

Can Gripen carry anti-ship cruise missiles like JF-17 which is armed with YJ-83 missiles that have a range of over 255+ km?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-je2VLDhzDN...25283%2529.jpg

Yes.. Rb15F

[JSLLL4]

Yes.. Rb15F

Looks better than YJ-83

LOL at 3 girls in 3 hair colors

[Boom]

excellent thread. the JF-17 is clearly superior to the F-22, as proven by this youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6sU8-G8y8

bottomline : one shouldn't insult the JF-17 by comparing it with clearly inferior aircraft like the Gripen.

[TR1]

excellent thread. the JF-17 is clearly superior to the F-22, as proven by this youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6sU8-G8y8

bottomline : one shouldn't insult the JF-17 by comparing it with clearly inferior aircraft like the Gripen.

Can you imagine how badly Tejas would get trashed by PAF JF-17s?

Frankly I don't think even FGFA will be enough.
DSI or bust baby.

[EagleSpirit]

You get what you pay for? (Cept the F-35)

[Boom]

Can you imagine how badly Tejas would get trashed by PAF JF-17s?

Frankly I don't think even FGFA will be enough.
DSI or bust baby.

exactly ! my neighbour complained to the police about the noise, my knees are shivering so badly in fear.

[WinterStars]

Don't forget that the integration of Mach 7 PL-12D Ramjet shooting out to 350 km capable of engaging 15 G LO targets is going on as we speak. Plus the fact that thousands of JF-17 can be manufactured per month which other companies like LM (with BAe, Northrop Grumman, Cassidian, etc) are struggling to make 2000 across 5 years.
Airforces worldwide cower in fear at the thought of a Generation Zwei JF-17. Thunder Indeed.

[PLA-MKII]

I think this thread is being derailed simply because some specific individuals, often of a particular national persuasion think its okay to troll around on a thread that has nothing to do with them.

Despite the attempted sarcasm, the JF-17 and the Gripen are very comparable planes. I would rank the Gripen higher than the JF-17, but I think that the JF-17 has more potential in future developments than the Gripen does.

Some interesting similarities:

1. Very closely matched thrust and weight
2. STOL performance, ability to operate off roads
3. Both projects pioneered by smaller nations (in the case of Pakistan and the JF-17 is more vital to Pakistan than China thus...)
4. Are to be armed with similar weapons (MAA-1B Pirhana for SA and PAK)
5. A central attempt from the start to focus on ease of maintenance and simplicity in production over raw performance
6. Both envisioned as multirole platforms from the start

Between, the JF-17 does use composites, but to a lower percentage than the Gripen. The JF-17 Block II is slated to have even greater composite use. JF-17's TWR is believed to be greater than 1, thanks to some tweaking (as stated if I recall correctly from some info out of the Zuhai airshow)

[WinterStars]

I think this thread is being derailed simply because some specific individuals, often of a particular national persuasion think its okay to troll around on a thread that has nothing to do with them.

Despite the attempted sarcasm, the JF-17 and the Gripen are very comparable planes.

All facts have been provided by the OP himself here, page 13 onwards...
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...114701&page=13

Nobody is presenting anything new.
The OP would disagree with you that the JF-17 and the Gripen are comparable. JF-17 with DSI clearly ...

[PLA-MKII]

All facts have been provided by the OP himself here, page 13 onwards...
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...114701&page=13

Nobody is presenting anything new.
The OP would disagree with you that the JF-17 and the Gripen are comparable. JF-17 with DSI clearly ...

What exactly does that thread have to do with what I am saying? And do you always speak in the second person? Stick to the topic or go away.

[matt]

Most advance aircraft ever! it does not even need DVI and is composite head to toe! nearly 80% composite usage.

[MadRat]

If you don't mind a steeper maintanence curve then JF-17 might suit your needs. But if man-hours matter then Gripen may be the better choice for you.

[JSLLL4]

You really should compare JF-17 to F-22. Maybe the Raptor stands a chance even though it doesn't have the mighty DSI.

Not a bad suggestion. F-22 still uses the same air intake technology as Q-5 does, the latter being a 1960s plane.

F-22 http://www.kbvp.com/sites/default/fi...ht.preview.jpg

Q-5 http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...n/IMG_0142.jpg

[Twinblade]

Not a bad suggestion. F-22 still uses the same air intake technology as Q-5 does, the latter being a 1960s plane.

F-22 http://www.kbvp.com/sites/default/fi...ht.preview.jpg

Q-5 http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/china.../day04_016.jpg

Oh wait, F-22 raptor and wright brother's flying machine both depend on atmospheric oxygen to fly, the latter being an early 1900's design.

[Levsha]

Isn't the JF-17 basically just a warmed over MiG-21? In other words, has it got anything more to offer compared to the Indian air force MiG-21 Bison, avionics etc?

[Corran]

Can Gripen carry anti-ship cruise missiles like JF-17 which is armed with YJ-83 missiles that have a range of over 255+ km?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-je2VLDhzDN...25283%2529.jpg

Why do you start a thread comparing A with B when you are apparently ignorant about B. Yes Gripen carry antiship missiles, SAAB - the Gripen manufacturer of the RBS-15.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS-15

[Sens]

JF-17 or former Super 7 is a joint design of the late 80s from CATIC and Grumman as a replacement for the J-7. Forced to an end by the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square massacre in 1989. To keep it alive for Pakistan in an urgent need as a F-7 replacement the avaibility of the Russian RD-93 allowed to continue that program without further US cooperation. The present JF-17 does not differ much from the Gripen A in flight performance with the edge for the Gripen by a lower wing-load at least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen

[JSLLL4]

Oh wait, F-22 raptor and wright brother's flying machine both depend on atmospheric oxygen to fly, the latter being an early 1900's design.

All aircraft require air to fly. The difference is in the engines. The first planes used piston engines. F-22 uses turbofan engines.

[Corran]

Isn't the JF-17 basically just a warmed over MiG-21? In other words, has it got anything more to offer compared to the Indian air force MiG-21 Bison, avionics etc?

When MiG-21 legacy is clearly visible in the JF-17 it is far beyond MiG-21 bis. MiG-21 has some airframe limitations like small nose that limit is from using any proper radar.

On the other hand JF-17 has rather limited capabilities, no advanced targeting pod, and no BVR missile. Hard to say if it has anything like modern, interested ECM system - like ASPIS from advanced F-16s or Spectra from Rafale.

Remember that MiG-21bison in India is the solution to fill the gap and eventually all Bisons will be replaced by MMRCA (the Rafale). On the other hand JF-17 for Pakistan is the future platform for like next 30 years.