Pak-Fa news thread part 20

[Berkut]

So is F-15's. That said, PAK FA's landing gear seemed over sized for me from the start. It doesn't take away the looks or anything, but it looks much stronger than Su-27's for example, which is heavier. So i suspect LG and wheelbays will shrink and get weight cut. Of course it might be designed with carrier version in mind, but isn't that jumping ahead of yourself?

[Acatomic]

@ Berkut

PAK FA's landing gear was designed to operate from short, unprepared runways

[Levsha]

@ Berkut

PAK FA's landing gear was designed to operate from short, unprepared runways

It was? just like the F-35C then (almost).

[Acatomic]

It was? just like the F-35C then (almost).

OK, let me correct myself


PAK FA's landing gear is designed to operate from short, unprepared runways.

[mack8]

So...what are we looking at here? Is this 51, or maybe they modified T-50-0 (KPO) with the IRST mock-up and a canopy?

( T-50 knowledgeable folks know that the initial images of T-50-0 shows it without an IRST mock-up, and without a canopy )

Via Comet @aviaforum

[Jō Asakura]

T-50-0. Now that's what I call testing to destruction (they even smashed the canopy!)

Interesting test equipment relacing the tail-fins.

[mack8]

Nah , don't think the canopy is smashed , they probably cut that piece for easier access to the inside (as oposed to sliding the thing somehow whenever they need to)

[JSTCVW09CD]

Hey guys! I think I may have had an (open source) 'eureka moment' regarding PAK-FA and S-ducts, it's a little long-winded so bear with me…

Here is an extract from a technical paper from Ufa State Aviation University (Уфа: УГАТУ) regarding the development of the next generation engine (by referring to the "fifth generation engine"- it is, by all accounts, referring to the PAK-FA stage 2 engine in all but name), dated 2008:



So what they're talking about is developing a fan-blade composed of what they call 'Meta-Composites', in this case a magnesium matrix reinforced with boron-carbon fibre composite. This would replace the Titanium superalloy 1st stage of the compressor.

Here comes the 'Da Vinci Code' bit, assessing the EM properties of the above composition...and guess what?...

Here is a Chinese technical paper on magnesium (Mg) alloys which it describes as possessing "special radar-absorption characteristics, low density and high rigidity…".

http://www.ysxbcn.com/upfile/soft/200961/2004-02-22.pdf

I don't know about 'Have Glass', but magnesium is used in Eurofighter's canopy seal. As for Boron, isotopes of Boron are designed to absorb radar waves and Boron Carbide is a RAM.

The best bit, according to a more recent technical paper from Ufa State Aviation University (Уфа: УГАТУ) dated 28/04/12:



So it appears to be a very high-tech and elegant solution, also involved in composite fan blade development are FGUP TsIAM and FGUP VIAM (ФГУП ЦИАМ & ФГУП ВИАМ), these are big on nanotech, so I guess the final composition will be very interesting indeed!

Note 'NPP Motor' also worked on NPO Saturn's 117S and 117. Kinda makes you wonder about the FM2's front cover huh Berkut?

Pretty informative stuff. thanks.

[quadbike]

So now the Russians are stealing tech from the Chinese ?

[Berkut]

Note 'NPP Motor' also worked on NPO Saturn's 117S and 117. Kinda makes you wonder about the FM2's front cover huh Berkut?

Hmmm, not following your logic here to be honest. FM2 is being developed by Salut not by Saturn. So if anything 117 engine should make me wonder.

AND NO BLOCKER.

It is interesting hypothesis, that blades will be able to "eat" all radar waves making blocker not needed, but i am not convinced just yet. The fact they are stealthifying the blades doesn't mean that is the only thing they will use.

Blades on NK-32 was treated as well, but that isn't the only thing they did in Tu-160 intakes.

PS: Considering our dear Petr Butovsky has been kind enough to show us "Izd 30" fan-blades, i still don't think there is anything mysterious about FM2 ones. But good research. Magnesium rings a bell somewhere, i fancy it was used on B-2?

[Twinblade]

Being the nice guy I am, I'll go out of my way to pander to your disposition:

IT MEANS NO S-DUCT……...AND NO BLOCKER.

I am not convinced either, that fan will still bounce off a ripple, no matter how tiny and a decent passive suite on enemy aircraft will be able to identify Pak-fa's presence.

[haavarla]

I am not convinced either, that fan will still bounce off a ripple, no matter how tiny and a decent passive suite on enemy aircraft will be able to identify Pak-fa's presence.

Lets be realistic shall we.
Nobody claims these treated fan blades will not bounce back zippo radar waves..
The point is how much reduction, right!
For Sukhoi to keep the Flanker like Airduct/intakes, this will ensure the insane freedom of slow/poststall speed regime performance and no reduction in airflow(blockers!).
Also, there is the partly twisted airduct, every bit counts for the total result.

All in all, as a compromise, it is brilliant solution.
The spirit of Simonov seems to live on

[haavarla]

Following the recent good posts here:


On the modernization of production and infrastructure of the plant Komsomol "Dry" in 2012 planned to spend 1.4 billion rubles

Moscow, July 13. About 650 million rubles will be allocated to the technical development of part of the holding "Sukhoi" Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Association. Yuri Gagarin (KNAAPO). These funds will be used for technical renovation and modernization of the plant, the implementation of energy efficiency programs, etc. In the third and fourth quarter of 2012 the company will be established fifteen units of high-tech machining, cutting and bending equipment and warehouse complex. Until the end of the year in various departments of the plant will install the latest from the 22 leading domestic and foreign manufacturers. Here and in the new airfield equipment for flight test station, and lifting and networking equipment, computers, devices in the Office of the Chief Metrologist and the Central Laboratory, and special equipment for a number of shops. In addition, at the expense of the federal target program "Development of the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation for the period 2011-2020, the" beginning of the year in the shops KnAAPO has 12 machines. In the near future will be running another 4 units of metallurgical equipment, and before the end of the year - two machining centers and a range of cutting.

Some equipment, installed at the plant, has no analogues in Russia. For example, machining centers for machining of titanium alloys in the world there are only a few copies. To enter and use such equipment in the pool is being renovated shops, transformer substation, as well as staff training. A total of 2012 for capital investments (infrastructure, modernization of production and the association) is planned 1.412 billion rubles.

Modernization and upgrading of production KnAAPO implemented according to plan the technical development of the enterprise. Putting high-tech equipment to improve performance, reduce production cycle, to improve the quality of parts and, more importantly, to improve working conditions at the plant.

http://www.sukhoi.org/news/company/?id=4913

[Berkut]

I don't see it being confusing. Seems they are just doubling RCS measures. So if somehow radarwaves get though the blocker they will be "eaten" again by the blades.

Or they just do it fo sh!t and giggles. Like they apparently did Su-47 for that exact reason according to some here.

[flateric]

T-50 top fuselage composite panel quality check at ONPO "Tekhnologiya"

[Berkut]

While we are at it... Another picture of previously shown panel if anyone recalls.

[Trident]

Yes, that one was even exhibited at MAKS 2011 IIRC, and the wing panel has been shown as well.

[WinterStars]

They seem to be using generous amounts of tape. What is it for?
Mostly female workforce...

[Amiga500]

Via Comet @aviaforum

WOW!


What a whiffletree!


I need to send this to some stresser head mates!!

[Trident]

That's nothing!

http://sibnia.com/assets/images/page.../sibnia008.jpg

http://dedmaxopka.livejournal.com/59515.html

http://dedmaxopka.livejournal.com/59849.html

[edi_right_round]

T-50 top fuselage composite panel quality check at ONPO "Tekhnologiya"

The panel from the photo seems to be 1 cm thick.
I recall DjCross when T-50 flew first saying that from panels thickness one could approximately give what kind of band radars the platform will be invisible.Can somebody confirm this and what would be the target?
Sorry if the assumption sounds silly

[Berkut]

The panel from the photo seems to be 1 cm thick.
I recall DjCross when T-50 flew first saying that from panels thickness one could approximately give what kind of band radars the platform will be invisible.Can somebody confirm this and what would be the target?
Sorry if the assumption sounds silly

No, it isn't silly. I would say it is less than 1 cm if one looks at the hexagon and compare with for example ring on her hand.

[flateric]

it's thinner at hexagon opening area as there's no honeycomb insert there
I'd say it's about an inch thick where honeycomb are

[Erkokite]

The panel from the photo seems to be 1 cm thick.
I recall DjCross when T-50 flew first saying that from panels thickness one could approximately give what kind of band radars the platform will be invisible.Can somebody confirm this and what would be the target?
Sorry if the assumption sounds silly

This is true, but only to a certain extent. Convenctional RAM requires a certain thickness to be effective (I think on the order the wavelength/2 or the wavelength/4 IIRC). This is also true of conventional Jaumann absorbers. However, comparatively new (that is to the conventional Jaumann absorber) capacitive Jaumann absorbers do not require this. This is what the F-35 is rumored to use, and it would make sense for the T-50 to use the same.

[flateric]

Mostly female workforce...

because they are the most accurate ... at certain areas

[Italy]

They seem to be using generous amounts of tape. What is it for?
Mostly female workforce...

Russians like sexy

[Flanker_man]

because they are the most accurate ... at certain areas

They learned their trade re-covering the wings of An-2's with fabric & dope .........



Ken

[Jō Asakura]

A report from an engine technology exhibition some time late 2011 detailing FGUP TsIAM's work.

http://engine.aviaport.ru/issues/79/pics/pg04.pdf

As regards PAK-FA, TsIAM is delegated work regarding:

малоступенчатым высоконагруженным вентилятору и КВД с низкой массой;
A fewer staged, high loading fan and a low mass, HP compressor;

основной высокотемпературной камере сгорания;
The main high-temperature combustion chamber;

высокотемпературной одноступенчатой ТВД;
High-temperature, single-staged HP turbine;

легкой форсажной бесстабилизаторной камере сгорания;
A lean-burn combustion chamber without a stabilizer

цифровой САУ с полной ответственностью (FADEC).
FADEC

Also reported is work on a UAV (UCAV?) engine and conceptual design of the PAK-DA engine.

Interesting pics:
БЛИСК турбины из биметаллического сплава (page 5, top left)
BLISK turbines made of a bi-metallic alloy

Камера сгорания перспективного ТРДД (page 5, middle-left)
Section of combustion chamber for a future engine

Лопатка РК модернизированного КНД из полимерного композита (page 6, top left)
Fan blade 'RK' for upgraded LP compressor made of polymer composites.

Лопатки РК и НА перспективного КНД (page 7, top left)
Fan blades 'RK' & 'NA' for a future LP compressor

Рабочие лопатки турбины из композиционных материалов (page 7, bottom-left)
Working fan-blades of a turbine made of composite materials.

[Trident]

'RK' = rotor, 'NA' = stator.

[flateric]