TR1's Great Russian Aviation Thread 7,the return of Timofey Mozgov

[TR1]

http://aviaforum.ru/attachment.php?a...5&d=1328770563
http://aviaforum.ru/attachment.php?a...6&d=1328770563

Mi-8AMTSh in grey.

http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/436

2nd part of Vitaly Kuzmin's report.

[haavarla]

Oh man thx a lot! I cant get enough of em Fullbacks..

Now, a few Q if i may. All those hardpoints/pylons on the wings here.
Why are all of em different looking, does it have something to do with the inner are wet points and wing loading etc?
How much weight and what kind of armament can it carry on the hardpoint next to the wet points?
And that double rack in between the airducts, are it only for bombs?
I count 14 hardpoint here, how much improvments are this over the Su-24M2?

[Trident]

I thinks they are maybe more composits (but not more than J-10!!):diablo:

That's an interesting topic for two reasons, actually.

1. I don't think all the grey areas are composite in these MiG pictures, the only ones which certainly are should be the lightest (CFRP) and darkest (GFRP or AFRP) panels. At least some of the medium grey areas are probably painted metal though, for example I doubt the wing skins have been switched to composite.

2. Do we have ANY reliable sources on what parts of the J-10 airframe are composite? The Chinese primer schemes seem to give little if any indication, you could argue that the green parts sometimes seen could be non-metallic but more often than not those are areas where you wouldn't normally expect composites.

[mack8]

Here is 2 more pictures in the mig29 fur syria.

http://russianplanes.net/images/to66000/065927.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to66000/065926.jpg

I thinks they are maybe more composits (but not more than J-10!!):diablo:

rafael is not as beatifull as J-20!!:diablo:

Thanks mate.

Hm...looks like they put some pylons on it for today. Also where's the chute ? Did they moved it in the beaver tail? ( 961 and 967 have a characteristic chute fairing where the tailhook attachment would be)

[J-20 Hotdog]

2. Do we have ANY reliable sources on what parts of the J-10 airframe are composite? The Chinese primer schemes seem to give little if any indication, you could argue that the green parts sometimes seen could be non-metallic but more often than not those are areas where you wouldn't normally expect composites.

its called wishful thinking on the side of Chinese aviation fans. Chinese aviation is less transparent than Russian one. more mysteries there, yet lots of optimistic assumptions. You don't see Sukhoi rolling out Pak-fa's in full paint trying to hide certain things.

[martinez]

That's an interesting topic for two reasons, actually.

1. I don't think all the grey areas are composite in these MiG pictures, the only ones which certainly are should be the lightest (CFRP) and darkest (GFRP or AFRP) panels. At least some of the medium grey areas are probably painted metal though, for example I doubt the wing skins have been switched to composite.

2. Do we have ANY reliable sources on what parts of the J-10 airframe are composite? The Chinese primer schemes seem to give little if any indication, you could argue that the green parts sometimes seen could be non-metallic but more often than not those are areas where you wouldn't normally expect composites.

I agree, in case of the Mig-35M2 I think integral wing fuel tanks are welded structure now as well as the fuselage FT no.3, risky to fly when in bare/anodized metal and needs to be treated asap for the sake of safety by an external coating. It is also visible that they are treating other areas with a light layer of that grey paint.

I dare to say that J-10 airframe possesses very little composite materials, but they could prove me wrong.

[martinez]

its called wishful thinking on the side of Chinese aviation fans. Chinese aviation is less transparent than Russian one. more mysteries there, yet lots of optimistic assumptions. You don't see Sukhoi rolling out Pak-fa's in full paint trying to hide certain things.

Well, but now when owning the whole USA they are catching up quickly bcs of technology transfer, I think the J-20 is just an example of that, dont you think?

[TR1]

China owns like 7% of US debt, let's not get too wild with the whole China "owning" the US thing.

[Trident]

Makes sense if it is for additional corrosion protection. Airbus fuselage sections receive an additional coat of grey paint on the lower interior areas, where water from the cabin air collects after condensing on the cold metal while flying at altitude.

[martinez]

Airbus fuselage sections receive an additional coat of grey paint on the lower interior areas, where water from the cabin air collects after condensing on the cold metal while flying at altitude.

It might be also some kind corrosion inhibitor coatings, widely used in the aircraft MRO as well, but usually they are transparent, not grey. They are applied on the interior paint though.

[mack8]

So Martinez about these two new MiG-29s 741 and 747, do you think i can have my diet coke now, please?

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showp...&postcount=394

[mack8]

Mr. Fomin's news article on the new MiG-29M/M2
http://www.take-off.ru/news/117-news...ig-29m-02-2012

Looks like it lacks the folding wing mechanism. Wonder which "overseas" customer it is .

[JSR]

At this point it does not matter who ever the customer.
MIG-29 should be produced at maximum quanity per year. just like MIG-21 in 1960s. This will lower the cost of production and increase leverage. There is something needed cheaper than Flanker in mass quantities.

[TR1]

http://russianplanes.net/ID65975

Recent photo, Kamov Ka-52/President-S testbed.

[mikoyan1991]

http://russianplanes.net/ID65975

Recent photo, Kamov Ka-52/President-S testbed.

TR1,is president in other helios of VVS or just has been developed and ready for instalation.and has it been any kind of this system before president-s in VVS ? thanks in advance

[J-20 Hotdog]

At this point it does not matter who ever the customer.
MIG-29 should be produced at maximum quanity per year. just like MIG-21 in 1960s. This will lower the cost of production and increase leverage. There is something needed cheaper than Flanker in mass quantities.

and who's going to buy all those, especially if Syria's government doesn't survive in the near future?

People prefer Flankers, not Fulcrums
17 export customers and still going strong

[TR1]

There is a Mi-26 that was also fitted with active defense:
http://russianplanes.net/ID64514
http://russianplanes.net/ID20339

Also the reco Ka:
http://russianplanes.net/ID64788
http://russianplanes.net/ID58835

But the Ka-52 is first serial I guess.

[TR1]

And here it is, the newly built Ka-52, President-S, MAWS, Arbalet, etc.

http://aviaforum.ru/attachment.php?a...3&d=1328899548

[JSR]

and who's going to buy all those, especially if Syria's government doesn't survive in the near future?

People prefer Flankers, not Fulcrums
17 export customers and still going strong

MIG-29 (MIG brand in general) is known commodity across the world. There are trained pilot, technicians & infrastructure. from Ex-Iraq all the way to Burma.
MIG should just churned out these many fighters ever year regardless of customer and distribute freely among allies at time of need.
IF MIG manage to raise output to 50 to 100 MIG-29M per year at $50m price. It will cost $5b at most to Russian government.
The more Russia stand up for these countries. The more contracts for MIG and other busineses will come down.
first benefit of Russian veto.
http://www.emg.rs/en/news/world/174200.html

[J-20 Hotdog]

MIG-29 (MIG brand in general) is known commodity across the world. There are trained pilot, technicians & infrastructure. from Ex-Iraq all the way to Burma.
MIG should just churned out these many fighters ever year regardless of customer and distribute freely among allies at time of need.
IF MIG manage to raise output to 50 to 100 MIG-29M per year at $50m price. It will cost $5b at most to Russian government.
The more Russia stand up for these countries. The more contracts for MIG and other busineses will come down.
first benefit of Russian veto.
http://www.emg.rs/en/news/world/174200.html

its no longer the 1990's son. Many countries that could've been Mig-29M importers are opting for Flankers. Even African countries are going for Flankers. Lots of trained pilots, technicians and infrastructure for Flankers too. Ethiopia and Eritrea hired many Russian and Ukrainians to help with Flanker work. Eritrea.. after getting spanked by Ethiopoian Flankers.. bought Flankers, not Fulcrums, after the war.

The older MiG-29s were only successful because of the cancelled Iraq order that led to many spare unsold ones available. Those are nearly gone if not all gone now. anything sold has to be used stock or new build M/K/35 or whatever Mig is trying to call it.

[Trident]

And here it is, the newly built Ka-52, President-S, MAWS, Arbalet, etc.

http://aviaforum.ru/attachment.php?a...3&d=1328899548

Nice! Good to see they've put the engine exhaust IR suppressors back on, they were omitted from a number of recent production airframes. Can't tell whether the RWR is installed though, all series machines are fitted with the corresponding mounting points but the actual antennas seemed to be missing.

[Trident]

http://russianplanes.net/F!B1!T14!A0...!K0!V!P1!REG55

Two new pictures of my favourite sharkmouth scheme ever!

[JangBoGo]

This was not posted earlier...

https://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/20120209_03.html

5 Russian fighter jets approach Japan's territory

Aircraft from Japan's Self-Defense Force have been forced to scramble after Russian fighter jets skirted Japanese airspace for 12 hours.

Japan's Defense Ministry says 2 Russian TU-95 bombers and a single A-50 plane approached Japan over Sanin, western Japan, at around 9 AM on Wednesday. The A-50 is equipped with an early airborne warning and control system.

The Ministry says the bombers hovered near the Japanese archipelago for 12 hours while the A-50 circled over waters off Sanin for 9 hours, forcing Japanese planes to scramble.

The Ministry says that around midday on Wednesday, another 2 SU-24 surveillance planes approached the Japanese air space between Hokuriku, central Japan, and Hokkaido, northern Japan, before navigating over the Sea of Japan for several hours.

None of the planes intruded into Japanese air space but the Ministry says it's unusual for Russian fighter jets to fly in such numbers so close to the country.

The Ministry adds that Russian planes with the early warning system have never been spotted near Japan before and that the Russian Air Force may have been conducting sophisticated surveillance drills.

Thursday, February 09, 2012 07:39 +0900 (JST)

There was few posts in an earlier thread which talked about the A-50 endurance....in which I also replied. If I remember correctly, the talk likely came up with the "huge" 9hrs endurance (one way) of Israeli G550 AEW and the comparatively "low" endurance of the A-50.

I had pointed out then that, the patrol endurance of the A-50 on station is over 4hrs@1000km from the base and the overall endurance of the A-50 is likely to be over 9hrs if we take the two way trip to the patrol area and back.

Berive quotes an endurance figure (on station) of over 4hours without refueling and 7hours with refueling from the base, which they say can be changed upon customers request. The recent patrol near the Japanese coast have given us a confirmation that the endurance for A-50 on station is over 9 hours.

I don't know which model it is, but my guess is it has to be the old D-30KP (?) powered A-50. If this is indeed the old model, it is likely that the new models (or upgraded A-50, incl A-50EI) installed with the more fuel-efficient PS-90A engines is going to have a better performance figure.

But the missing link (for me) in the whole stuffs is the Japanese have not reported the presence of any tanker in or during the patrol and the 9hours reported for the A-50 on station is without the tanker support..... and that endurance is truly amazing. more info & theory on the A-50 endurance considering this recent patrol would be very welcome.



tohoku region


The Chugoku Region (中国地方, Chūgoku Chihō, literally "central country") makes up the western part of Japan's main island Honshu. It is commonly subdivided into the heavily urbanized and industrialized Sanyo region along the Seto Inland Sea coast and the much less developed, rural Sanin region along the Sea of Japan coast.


http://www.en.rian.ru/world/20120209/171225017.html

Japan Scrambles Fighters to Meet Russian Bombers

© RIA Novosti. Ivan Rudnev
11:10 09/02/2012
TOKYO, February 9 (RIA Novosti)

Japan’s Air Self-Defense Force had to scramble fighter jets in response to flights by Russian military aircraft near Japanese airspace on Wednesday, Kyodo news agency said on Thursday citing the Defense Ministry.

According to the ministry, a total of five Russian planes, including two Tu-95 Bear strategic bombers, two Su-24 Fencer reconnaissance planes and an A-50 Mainstay airborne early warning and control aircraft skirted Japanese territory on Wednesday.

“They flew over the Pacific Ocean and the Sea of Japan off Hokkaido and the Tohoku region in northeastern Japan,” Japanese officials said, adding that it was the first time a Russian AWACS plane was spotted near Japan.

Russia resumed strategic bomber patrol flights over the Pacific, Atlantic and Arctic oceans in August 2007.

Yesterday’s flights by Russian Air Force aircraft close to the coast of Japan were carried out strictly in accordance with international rules and took place over international waters, air force spokesman Col. Vladimir Drik said on Thursday.

“All flights by air force aircraft were carried out and are carried out in strict accordance with international rules on use of airspace above international waters, and not violating the borders of other states,” he said.

“They were escorted by on their flights by Japanese Air Self Defense Force F-15 and F-16 fighter aircraft,” Drik said.

[J-20 Hotdog]

This was not posted earlier...

https://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/20120209_03.html

There was few posts in an earlier thread which talked about the A-50 endurance....in which I also replied. If I remember correctly, the talk likely came up with the "huge" 9hrs endurance (one way) of Israeli G550 AEW and the comparatively "low" endurance of the A-50.

I had pointed out then that, the patrol endurance of the A-50 on station is over 4hrs@1000km from the base and the overall endurance of the A-50 is likely to be over 9hrs if we take the two way trip to the patrol area and back.

Berive quotes an endurance figure (on station) of over 4hours without refueling and 7hours with refueling from the base, which they say can be changed upon customers request. The recent patrol near the Japanese coast have given us a confirmation that the endurance for A-50 on station is over 9 hours.

I don't know which model it is, but my guess is it has to be the old D-30KP (?) powered A-50. If this is indeed the old model, it is likely that the new models (or upgraded A-50, incl A-50EI) installed with the more fuel-efficient PS-90A engines is going to have a better performance figure.

But the missing link (for me) in the whole stuffs is the Japanese have not reported the presence of any tanker in or during the patrol and the 9hours reported for the A-50 on station is without the tanker support..... and that endurance is truly amazing. more info & theory on the A-50 endurance considering this recent patrol would be very welcome.



The Chugoku Region (中国地方, Chūgoku Chihō, literally "central country") makes up the western part of Japan's main island Honshu. It is commonly subdivided into the heavily urbanized and industrialized Sanyo region along the Seto Inland Sea coast and the much less developed, rural Sanin region along the Sea of Japan coast.

Maybe Japan should respond and send some E767's and F-15s to skirt near Russian Air space. fair is fair

[mikoyan1991]

Maybe Japan should respond and send some E767's and F-15s to skirt near Russian Air space. fair is fair

it wont happen.They fear the BEAR :diablo::diablo::diablo:

[J-20 Hotdog]

it wont happen.They fear the BEAR :diablo::diablo::diablo:

unfortunately that's true. While the China and Russia dance around near Japanese air space and waters, Japan is too afraid to do the same. What haggis they are.

[JangBoGo]

Mr. Fomin's news article on the new MiG-29M/M2
http://www.take-off.ru/news/117-news...ig-29m-02-2012

Looks like it lacks the folding wing mechanism. Wonder which "overseas" customer it is .

So the 741 & 747 are meant for those models without wing-folding and refueling probe?
Or is there more to it? How about the new RD-33MKM engine?

Can you plz post the full translation? Google tranlate is not working for me.

[secondparttohel]

So the 741 & 747 are meant for those models without wing-folding and refueling probe?
Or is there more to it? How about the new RD-33MKM engine?

Can you plz post the full translation? Google tranlate is not working for me.

Aren't those for Syria ?

[JangBoGo]

Maybe Japan should respond and send some E767's and F-15s to skirt near Russian Air space. fair is fair

How about Japan pulling out of NPT, building N-bombs, leasing a dozen of Russian ICBMs and paying back the long time due of two Atoms to America?

[TR1]

Good post BoGo, thanks.
The MiG-29 article @ TakeOff doesn't really have anything new.

Also, fear the Mistrals Japan. For they are coming.