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Thread: TR1's Great Russian Aviation Thread 7,the return of Timofey Mozgov

  1. #721
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    I have made following list for orders for new planes, helicopters and upgraded aircrafts.

    Contracts for new jets:
    • Su-30M2 KnAAPO (contract fulfilled last year)
    • 12 Su-27SM3 KnAAPO (contract fulfilled last year)
    • 96 Su-35S KnAAPO (current number is 48, but 48 more will be ordered)
    • 124 Su-34 NAPO
    • 67 Yak-130 IAPO
    • 20 MiG-29K Sokol
    • 4 MiG-29KUB Sokol
    • 28 MiG-29SMT Sokol
    • 6 MiG-29UB 9.53 Sokol
    • 60 PAK FA KnAAPO (this is just for version with stage one engines, and before 2020)
      = 451

    Upgraded planes:
    • 48 Su-27SM (finished)
    • 12 Su-27SM3 (finished)
    • 100 MiG-31BM (til 2020)
    • 130 Su-25SM/SM3
    • 12 Tu-160M
    • x Tu-22M3M
    • x Su-24M2
      = 330 +

    New helicopters:
    • 97 Mi-28N OAO Rosvertol
    • 140 Ka-52 Progress
    • 30 Mi-35M OAO Rosvertol
    • x Mi-8 versions
    • 15 Mi-26 OAO Rosvertol
      = 282+

    Total:
    • =1063


    Any good information on Su-24M2 (48?), Mi-8 and Ansat numbers would be nice!
    Last edited by Berkut; 28th March 2012 at 13:26.

  2. #722
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    Nice table Berkut, here is my version (in Spanish). Note that I have only included contracts that have been signed, not options. I thought only 22 Mi-35M were acquired.

    26-3-2012

    Sujoi:

    - 30 Su-30SM (Marzo 2012)
    - 92 Su-34 (Febrero 2012)
    - 48 Su-35 *(Agosto 2009)
    - 12 Su-27SM3 (Agosto 2009)
    - 4 Su-30M2 (Agosto 2009)

    MiG:

    - 24 MiG-29K (para la marina, Febrero 2012)
    - Modernización de 60 MiG-31 al estándard BM (Diciembre 2011).

    Yakovlev:

    - 55 Yak-130 (Diciembre 2011)

    Kamov:

    - 140 Ka-52 hasta 2020 (2011)

    Mil-Mi:

    - 67+30 Mi-28N Havoc (67 firmados en el 2005, y 30 en el 2010).
    - 22 Mi-35M (Junio 2010)
    - 22 Mi-26T.

    Antonov:

    - 40 An-70 (Junio 2010)
    - 10 An-124 (Enero 2012, por confirmar).
    - 10 An-140 (2011).

    Tupolev:

    - Modernización de 30 Tu-22M3 al estándard M3M.
    Last edited by a89; 28th March 2012 at 14:01.

  3. #723
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    From my info:

    Yak-130: 1st batch for 12 (completed), 2nd for 55, plys 2rd contract supposedly underway for another 10.
    Su-27SM: 48 in units + 5 @ Lipetsk. So 53 in total.
    Mi-35: First batch for 22, 2nd for 26. 48 total.
    Su-24M2 is confusing. 48 likely, plus a number of Gefest&T upgraded airframes @ Lipetsk.
    Ansat-U: Number of 70 floated through 2020.
    An-140: 10 through 2014.
    Ka-226: First contract was for 30, looks like it has been increased.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  4. #724
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    The Commander-in-Chief of the Russian air forces: 70% of the air forces’ fleet will be renewed by 2020
    70% of Russian air forces’ fleet will be renewed by 2020. Besides, new UAVs and aircraft will join the fleet, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian air forces, General Colonel, Alexander Zelin, said. It has been reported by Lenta.ru.

    In particular, T-50 fighters (PAK FA), Prospective Air Complex for Long Range Aviation (PAK DA – next-generation strategic bomber), A-100 AWACS aircraft and combat UAVs will be put into operation in the next ten years. Speaking of Т-50, Zelin noted that it would be the air superiority and combat area interdiction aircraft.

    "Of course we cannot entrust such vehicles to every pilot so only the most experienced ones will operate them. And the units equipped with these fighters will become elite. Specifically those units will perform the most important and complicated tasks", - the Commander-in-Chief said, adding that Т-50 has the significant technical potential, which will help create another modifications on its basis.

    Zelin has not unveiled any details regarding PAK DA stating that “the most careful attention” is being paid to this aircraft. According to him, the PAK DA would be able to perform tasks more effectively under conditions of war (or even nuclear war) and it will have “a lot of new combat capabilities intended for implementation of alternative ways of solving containment tasks”.

    At the same time the modernization of existing strategic aircraft is currently underway. In particular, all the Тu-160 bombers will be upgraded to Тu-160М version, Тu-95МS - tо Тu-95МSМ. The efficiency of the bombers will be increased by means of this modernization.

    A-100 AWACS aircraft "is the follow-up of A-50U AWACS aircraft". This vehicle would be able to accomplish regular missions of AWACS aircraft, including control of the crews and ground guidance, but it will also be able to use different types of UAVs. "The full range of application for this aircraft after 2020-2030 is being elaborated", - Zelin said.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  5. #725
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    i think there is 300 to 400 more fighter orders pending before 2020.

    it says Yakhont/Brahmos type missile for Su-30SM for blacksea. http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ghters-370055/

  6. #726
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    is Russia getting more Su-35s besides the 15 produced?

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornado View Post
    is Russia getting more Su-35s besides the 15 produced?
    Su-35 as in original Su-27M?

    No, that program is long dead.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    Su-35 as in original Su-27M?

    No, that program is long dead.
    Ah I see, Su-35S still in prototype stage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-35
    Last edited by Thornado; 28th March 2012 at 22:34.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornado View Post
    Ah I see, Su-35S still in prototype stage. Man, Russian pilots still don't have planes as good as the Indian boys do http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-35
    Su-35C is already in serial production, so yeah they do have better fighters.

    Oh, and happy 50th birthday to Bogdan!
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  10. #730
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    4 Su-30M airctafts - two seat version for 12 Su-27SM3 - contract is finished

  11. #731
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    That was noted by me and a89 already Kotey.

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    Su-35C is already in serial production, so yeah they do have better fighters.
    They have three of them and it took almost 2 years to build those three production aircraft. I wouldn't even call that serial production, not by any means.

  13. #733
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    Four Su-35S, four(4).
    Keep in mind that Knappo did produce four Su-30M2 and 12 Su-27SM3 about the same time they started the Su-35S serial production, so perhaps they was in no hurry to produce it at that time.

    And also, the State trials for Su-35S has rounded 500hours now, is it so clever to ramp up the production before the state trials are finnish?

    What if they discover cracks from tear & wear on the fuselage.. F-35 ring a bell!
    Then they need to change or strengting something in the structure right.

    The Su-35S airframe are slightly different from the Su-27. It also have stronger engines and are design to carry heavier load, hense more tear & wear.
    Needless to say, MTOW at 34.500kg are massive for a fighter.
    Last edited by haavarla; 29th March 2012 at 10:13.
    Thanks

  14. #734
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    I dont want to be a spammer but i fear my question got lost in the hale of recent posts. So...

    How many planes does a combat squadron in russian air force have?

  15. #735
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    It will be very similar to NATO Sq standard.
    12 operational, + a few more for reserve.
    Perhaps 14-16 total..
    Thanks

  16. #736
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  17. #737
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    Russia launches MALE-class UAV Project
    Denis Fedutinov
    Moscow Defense Brief

    In the autumn of 2011 the Russian MoD announced R&D contracts for two relatively heavy unmanned aerial vehicles, with an approximate take-off weight 800kg and 4,500 kg.

    Recognizing the need

    The United States is the world leader in MALE-class (Medium Altitude, High Endurance) UAVs. It has been developing the Predator family of drones since the early 1990s. Early models saw their first action during the war in Yugoslavia, which highlighted the practical uses of the UAVs of that class, and stimulated further research and development. The second war in Iraq and the campaign in Afghanistan saw routine and wide-spread use of the Predator and Reaper drones. In addition to providing continuous aerial reconnaissance and target tracking, they have been used to launch missiles against targets on the ground, killing a number of key Al Qaeda operatives.

    Russia has several obvious uses for MALE-class UAVs; many of them have to do with the sheer size of the country’s territory. The prospective users include the armed forces and several other uniformed agencies, especially the Border Service and the Coastguard.

    Import or indigenous design?

    The world’s most capable armed forces either operate MALE-class drones already or are studying how best to acquire them. Some countries pursue indigenous projects (sometimes in cooperation with foreign partners); others buy their UAVs abroad; several nations do both.

    Apart from the United States, only Israel now makes its own MALE-class drones. The Israeli product range includes the Heron and Eitan (Heron TP) systems made by Israel Aerospace Industries. A recent addition to the Israeli product range is the Heron 900, made by Elbit systems. Italy buys Predators from the United States. Germany and France operate specially adapted Heron models. The UAE, India, South Africa, China and several other countries are developing MALE-class UAVs, either independently or in cooperation with foreign partners such as Britain and France.

    Russia has long pursued a policy of developing and manufacturing all its weapons on its own. In recent years, however, it has come to realize that such an approach is no longer viable. Russian defense technology is increasingly lagging behind the foreign competition in a number of key areas. In addition, the Russian defense industry is often unable to deliver the new weapons ordered by the armed forces quickly enough or in sufficient volume. UAVs is one area where the technological gap has become especially obvious. To address the situation, in 2009 the Russian MoD placed an order for a batch of Israeli drones, including the Bird Eye 400 (mini-class) and the Searcher MkII (tactical class, which is closer to MALE). The drones were delivered in 2010, and the training of their operators was completed in 2011.

    But the Russian army still doesn’t have any MALE-class drones. Buying them from the United States is out of the question owing to American export restrictions, and Israel has refused to sell, reportedly after coming under American pressure.

    Contracts


    The Russian MoD has announced contracts for two UAV R&D projects. The first contract, worth about 2bn roubles, is for the smaller of the two drones; the winner must deliver a product ready for mass production.

    The second contract, worth about 1bn roubles, is for the larger of the two drones; it is expected to deliver a working prototype.

    The winners and losers

    Several Russian companies submitted their bids. Three companies were in the running for the contract to build the smaller UAV: Tupolev, which is part of the United Aircraft Corporation (OAK); Luch Design Bureau, a Rybinsk-based branch of the Vega concern; and the Tranzas company from St. Petersburg.

    Luch Design Bureau is the only company which already had an existing prototype when it submitted the bid. The vehicle, also called Luch, is based on Sigma-5, a small trainer aircraft for rookie pilots designed by the Sigma-TS company from Zhukovo, Moscow Region. Experts believe, however, that using a piloted aircraft as a UAV platform is not the best solution, even though this has already been tried in other countries. To make matters worse for Luch, its parent company, the Vega concern, it not held in very high regard in the MoD. Some time ago Vega was designated as Russia’s main developer of UAVs, but failed to live up to the generals’ expectations. Its designs have repeatedly come under criticism from Vladimir Popovkin, a former first deputy defense minister. One of the Vega products, the Tipchak tactical UAV, turned out to be a big disappointment during the 2008 conflict in Georgia, especially when measured against Israeli-made drones used by the Georgians.

    Another bidder for the first UAV contract, Tupolev, is one of the founders of the Russian school of UAV design. Its first drones date back to the 1950s, but most of the Tupolev designs are extremely dated. The company is also struggling financially. In the absence of large new orders Tupolev’s R&D capability has seen a rapid deterioration. It is also finding it difficult to attract and retain the design and engineering expertise.

    The contract for the smaller UAV has therefore been awarded to Tranzas. Its high-tech designs, well-known both in Russia and abroad, focus mainly on simulator systems. It also has experience in developing tactical UAVs.

    The second MoD contract, for the larger of th]e two UAVs, attracted two bidders: Sokol Design Bureau (Kazan), and RSK MiG.

    MiG has developed dozens of combat aircraft over the decades, most of them fighters and interceptors. It also has some experience in designing UAVs, although most of those designs date back to the past century. Its most recent UAV design, the Skat attack drone, was demonstrated at the MAKS-2007 airshow, but it appears that the project has never been completed.

    For these reasons the MoD awarded the second contract to Sokol. The company is one of Russia’s leading developers and suppliers of aerial targets. It also has several active drone projects. In addition to its prior experience with UAVs, one of Sokol’s main advantages is that the company is relatively compact, which makes it a more nimble and effective operator in the new post-Soviet economic environment. The company also has its own manufacturing facilities.

    Outlook

    The winners, Tranzas and Sokol, have announced that they are going to work on the two projects together. Sokol will probably focus on designing the airframe and on the subsequent mass production, while Tranzas will integrate the avionics and design the ground control stations for the two UAVs. Both projects will be led by Nikolay Dolzhenkov, a prominent Russian aircraft designer. He was the lead designer of the Pchela UAV, which is used in the Stroy-P, a regiment-level tactical aerial reconnaissance system. His other designs include the Yak-130 combat trainer.

    It is not yet clear which design and engineering solutions will be used in the two UAVs. Some information will probably appear in the run-up to the MAKS-2013 airshow. It has been reported that both UAVs are expected to take to the air in 2014 and enter a flight test program in 2015.

    Conclusion

    Russia’s decision to design MALE-class UAVs independently has its upsides and downsides. On the one hand, the project will be expensive. It is for a good reason that several European countries have decided to pool their efforts in this area. On the other hand, independent projects provide for greater flexibility and impose fewer restrictions on any subsequent exports. Rosoboronexport already has a lot of foreign customers. Integrating UAVs into the existing Russian reconnaissance and weapons systems would make them significantly more attractive for international buyers.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  18. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nopia View Post
    They have three of them and it took almost 2 years to build those three production aircraft. I wouldn't even call that serial production, not by any means.
    Nopia you should know better, there are 3 prototype aircraft that have flown ( 1 crashed) by sukhoi aircraft company for trials of systems before serial manufacture. This process is now finished and yes it took from 2008 to 2011. But the next 4 serial production planes that the Russian air-force has received are finished products being used by the air-force for testing of weapons and tactics and are in a Russian air-force unit. The first one flew in July 2011, 2nd in November 2011, third in January 2012 and fourth in March 2012. At least 6 more are scheduled to enter the air-force this year, with around 12 to 15 then per year. You must remember this aircraft has just been given the go-head for mass production, before that it was a slow testing program. The su-35S production will increase as all su-27's and su-30's other then what was ordered just a week ago(30 Su-30MKS), decrease to eventually nothing probably 2015.
    Pak-fa and su-35 production will dominate after 2015.

  19. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla View Post
    is it so clever to ramp up the production before the state trials are finnish?
    I agree but isn't this what they did with the Su-34? State trials finished only in September 2011 and by then the VVS had already 15 (?) in service.

  20. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    Su-35C is already in serial production, so yeah they do have better fighters.

    Oh, and happy 50th birthday to Bogdan!
    You could argue that the Su-27SM is better than the Su-30MKI on certain parameters, too.

  21. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by dionis View Post
    You could argue that the Su-27SM is better than the Su-30MKI on certain parameters, too.
    Yes especially the su-27sm3 version, all glass cockpit, 4 Lcd screens etc. It almost comes to the Su-35S standard, except for engines, radar minimization RCS, integrated systems, strengthened airframe, a good plane for pilots to go from su-27m versions to su-35 and pak-fa.

  22. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by calimero View Post
    I agree but isn't this what they did with the Su-34? State trials finished only in September 2011 and by then the VVS had already 15 (?) in service.
    Sure. But keep in mind the plauged history on those Su-34..
    Lack of funding drow the whole program to a hold, on several occations.
    It took forever to get to State Trials, and by that time the VVS requirements had changed several times.
    So when the start of State trials happend to it ended, lots on the onboard equipment was allready outdated and got replaced.
    Note, The first seial Su-34 got upgraded prior to the official VVS hand-over last year.

    However, let us not mix system and platform here.
    Given the size of the Su-34, it has an exellent road-map for upgrades, thus it could enter serial production at an earlier stage 2007-08. And even then the ramp-up production was veery slow..
    Thanks

  23. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nopia View Post
    They have three of them and it took almost 2 years to build those three production aircraft. I wouldn't even call that serial production, not by any means.
    Su-35 specifications may have been revised. as it is build as competitor to F-22.
    Radar range is now more than 400km. so it could be 500 or 600 depending between export and Ruaf versions.

    http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/news/archiv...9-CDAFC6273DA5
    Заложенные в самолете потенциальные характеристики позволят превосходить все тактические истребители поколения 4 и 4 + типа “Rafale” и EF 2000, модернизированные истребители типа F-15, F-16, F-18, F-35 и противодействовать самолету F-22A.

  24. #744
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    Please continue the discussion here
    Regards,

    Frank

  25. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    Su-35 specifications may have been revised. as it is build as competitor to F-22.
    Radar range is now more than 400km. so it could be 500 or 600 depending between export and Ruaf versions.
    I wouldn't hold my breath.. While the 400km detection range on the Irbis are impressive, its is still a highly teoretical capability.

    It is only on a 'Focus radar beam mode' where the search pattern and size are consentrated into a tiny high power search beam.
    It is only usefull if you know where to look in the first place!
    Thanks

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