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Thread: The Sinking of the Concordia

  1. #91
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    [QUOTE=fv24;1847357] The Italians, however, seem to be treating this purely as a criminal trial.

    In Italy it IS a criminal offence to leave your ship before all the passengers, or those that can be found have disembarked.
    The Captains coarse was pre sailing computerised, and he should have ONLY have taken the action he did, if...1) Bad or severe weather was coming making it his decision to alter coarse, for the SAFETY of his passengers.
    and 2) He changes coarse for the safety of the passengers. for some other reason.

    Whether you look at Italian Maritime Law. or International Maritime Law, he has comitted a crime in the eyes of his Peers.
    Jim.

    Lincoln .7
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  2. #92
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    Well the good Captain Schettinos alleged behavour could be contrasted with Capt. Chesley B. Sullenberger who had to ditch his aircraft in the Potomac.

    What did he do? Not dive out of the nearest exit. He and his Co Pilot disregarding their own safety walked the entire length of a sinking aircraft to see if everybody was out before leaving.

  3. #93
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    Hudson?
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    Can T22 WT525, Can B2 WD954, Vamp T11 XE921, Pilatus P2 A-125 (cockpits)

  4. #94
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    Ooops! Yes Baz you are correct, I really must put a new battery in my brain!

  5. #95
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    From the gCaptain website:

    “Grave imprudence and incompetence” – Transcript of the Preliminary Court Inquiry into Costa Concordia Disaster.

    gCaptain’s John Konrad Narrates the Final Maneuvers of the Costa Concordia [VIDEO]

    The video shows the AIS track for the cruiseship's last few minutes. The commentary is a bit tedious (and I would opine, in places, erroneous) but the video does show the courses followed by the ship as it approached the island, and subsequent to the collision itself.

    My own personal view is that after losing power in the electric motors driving the propellers (it matters not whether she had azimuth drive or conventional props - electric motors won't work too well when immersed in sea water) she drifted northwards until the starboard anchor was dropped. She then continued to move forward until the anchor cable paid was fully stretched out, and the anchor found something to take hold of (the charts indicate a sandy bottom, not good for holding). At that point, the ship made its abrupt turn (not, I would argue, as the commentator suggests in the video by using bow thrusters), and began to move back aided by the weight of the anchor cable settling down to the seabed and with the wind pushing her too.

    I still think (as I hinted in my earlier post) that a decision was made by someone (perhaps Schettino, maybe somebody else) to drop the anchor to initiate the manoeuver and bring COSTA CONCORDIA closer inshore.

    [My theories are based on more than 30 years experience in the Merchant Navy.]

  6. #96
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    As I asked earlier.

    Are we now going to be able to make similar comments, and speculate on the causes
    of aircraft accidents, without incurring the usual wrath of the forum thought police ?


  7. #97
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    It's not speculation though is it Alan? Captain Schettino has admitted that he was too close to the shore, that he made the turn from shore too late and that he 'messed up' the subsequent evacuation. As Captain, he bears responsibility for the safe operation of the ship anyway, but in this case it is his actions, and from the sound of it inaction subsequently, that has led to the loss of an as yet unknown number of lives.

    Regards,

    kev35
    The Forums only '"blithering anorak" as endorsed by ZRX61

  8. #98
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    Captain's responsible

    If he deviated from his prescribed course several times before this, GPS positioning would have reported that to the Cruise Line and the insurer.
    Everyone will have a lot of explaining to do, and pity the poor captain explaining all this, and his 'guest' to his wife!

  9. #99
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    There is now an animation made using the ships GPS locations. It seems the ship did execute a turn well out to sea but drifted in the turn into the rocks. Could the wind have played a part? It's been shown that it was the wind that pushed the ship into the shoreline were it now rests after the engines cut out.

    is the captain/concordia a vicitim of stronger than expected winds?
    Last edited by Bmused55; 22nd January 2012 at 09:52.
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  10. #100
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    A ship's captain that doesn't take into account the effect of winds on a ship with the same vertical surface area of a small skyscraper?

    Hmmm, maybe he should have stuck to something smaller...

    ...like a pedalo
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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post

    ...like a pedalo
    Nooo!, they have those on a pond in Newquay and they're a complete nightmare in a crosswind
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  12. #102
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    If he was caught out by the wind acting on his ship, making him make the mistake he did, then why didn't he use his Bow and stern thrusters to correct the turn. These still work even if the main engines are U.S. and possibly, and I say possibly kept the ship off the rocks.

    I would like to attend the Court proceedings, cos this one will go down in History, as a right failure and neglect of duty.
    It's a shame those that lost their lives will not be able to know what happens to the man who caused their death.

    They can't say it was Pilot error on this one!!

    Jim.

    Lincoln .7
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev35 View Post
    It's not speculation though is it Alan? Captain Schettino has admitted that he was too close to the shore, that he made the turn from shore too late and that he 'messed up' the subsequent evacuation.

    kev35
    Some posts are speculating though.

    Personally I have no problem with that. As long as when the inevitable
    aviation accidents occur this year (as unfortunately they surely will), the same
    rules can be applied when making comments. We can't have double
    standards can we ?
    Last edited by ~Alan~; 22nd January 2012 at 20:08.

  14. #104
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    Alan

    There are a lot of aviation experts on this forum, therefore, when there is an accident involving an aeroplane, the problem will be the press, members of the public, the CAA, AAIB, etc all hanging on the forums every word.(according to some)
    However, this thread is about a boat that crashed into a rock, driven by an Italian (badly) which resulted in the deaths of 30+ people. I really doubt media, next of kin, anybody curious will be the slightest bit interested in the ramblings of a bunch of old anoraks on here, speculating (or not) on a subject better covered on more nautical forums. (except fv24!)

    TBH there isn't much speculation on here that cannot be found in the media in the first place.

    Baz
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    Can T22 WT525, Can B2 WD954, Vamp T11 XE921, Pilatus P2 A-125 (cockpits)

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by spitfireman View Post
    Alan

    There are a lot of aviation experts on this forum, therefore, when there is an accident involving an aeroplane, the problem will be the press, members of the public, the CAA, AAIB, etc all hanging on the forums every word.(according to some)

    Baz


    "According to some"
    , being the operative phrase.

    In practice, who knows ?

    In the event of a member of my family being killed or injured in an
    accident, (of any type) the last place I would go for info would be an
    Internet forum.

    Then again, I can only speak for myself.

  16. #106
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    I agree that things are slightly different in a plane crash than in this circumstance.

    I don't know about families, and I would hope that the AAIB don't get their ideas from internet boards, but there is at least one that the press have got stories and opinion from in the past. I'm not aware of any stories that have come from this site, but I don't think that we would want this board to become the source of some of the often misguided aviation stories that we often spend our time criticising.

  17. #107
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    From the only diagram I have seen of the accident, the hull was holed on the port side? If so, why can't the salvors weld some temporary patches over the gash, pump the water out and 'Bob's your Uncle'.

    Save all this phaffing about taking the oil out which is going to take a month?

    Your answers will probably explain why I am not a marine salvager.

    Can anybody pinpoint the ship on Google maps?
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 10.8 times!

  18. #108
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    They've been blowing holes in the hull to gain access and the gash in the port side was pretty big - maybe too big to patch?
    Under my gruff exterior lies an even gruffer interior...

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  19. #109
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    [QUOTE=Newforest;1849642]From the only diagram I have seen of the accident, the hull was holed on the port side? If so, why can't the salvors weld some temporary patches over the gash, pump the water out and 'Bob's your Uncle'.

    This is exactly what I said in thread 13.
    Jim.
    Lincoln .7
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  20. #110
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    So you did. Great minds think alike. What say, we split the commision after 'advising' the powers that be?
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 10.8 times!

  21. #111
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    Newforest, Good idea. In todays economic gloom and doom, it's just too much money to be cut up for scrap where she is. The logistics would be a nightmare, far better to re float her and re furbish her.

    When are you available to go?.
    Jim.

    Lincoln .7
    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newforest View Post
    Can anybody pinpoint the ship on Google maps?
    There is a webcam during daylight hours.

    http://www.webcams.travel/webcam/124...iglio-Castello

  23. #113
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    That's a great help thanks. The ship is located on the east coast of the island and Google map has a photo of it on there. I was thinking about the need for an airport on the island for urgent supplies but there doesn't seem to be one and the mainland is close enough not to need one I suppose.
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 10.8 times!

  24. #114
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    Interesting article on the potential salvage of C/CONCORDIA.

  25. #115
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    Great analysis there, presumably a Canadian newspaper.
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 10.8 times!

  26. #116
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    Aircraft hit "cumulus granitus"

    Ships hit "........... granitus"


    Can anybody fill in the missing word ?
    Fly with the eagles,or scratch with the chickens.

  27. #117
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    "Giglio granitus?"
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 10.8 times!

  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-21 View Post
    Aircraft hit "cumulus granitus"
    He he, reminded me of this:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Bmused55

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  29. #119
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    it would seem to be regular events for this company ( read comments of crew ) whilst it may be true or may not be true about the captain , one has to wonder how much is cost cutting management powered by greed over safety

    who knows he may have been out of his depth because the company did not want to pay the going rate for the correct qualifications

    it seems all too regular what with the previous concordia accident and this ship also to be merely one captain it would seem to be from higher up also

    for me the company has been all too quiet for my liking

    as the saying goes , while they're picking on him they're leaving me alone !!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tan5V...eature=related

  30. #120
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    Whilst I know nothing about the legalities in Italy, I would say that if they,(The Cruise Company) keep quiet and let the Captain take all the blame, they will get off scott free.
    If however they admit liability, (Doubtful) then it will cost them Millions in passenger claims, salvage recovery etc,No, my guess is that they have hung him out to dry.and take all the blame.
    Jim.
    Lincoln .7
    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

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