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Thread: The Sinking of the Concordia

  1. #61
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    the thing is most are very quick to ridicule him , saying the old male bravado thing of a captain must go down with his ship !!

    easy to type

    but i put myself in that position my romantic and chivalrous male bravado side says i'd stick with the ship climb up and down through water fire and sh*t till every last soul was off

    but then i think of the actual reality where i'd probably be just as scared as everyone else and human natures self preservation instinct would take over

    therefore i would get off at the first possibility

    comparisons to the titanic are not helping either the titanic was in the middle of the atlantic at night in freezing conditions with nowhere else to go to some degree it made sense for smith to stay where he was !!

    the concordia was a short swim to shore in nowhere near the same conditions

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-21 View Post
    Instead of speculating I urge everyone to read an article in todays Daily Telegraph "Is human weakness a crime ?" by Theodore Dalrymple.
    I quote " Can we be sure that if Captain Schettino had kept calm and carried on,fewer people would have died ?
    The whole point is if he had NOT deviated from the prescribed course the vessel would not have hit ANY rocks and this tragedy would not have occurred. There is only one person responsible for that, Captain Schettino.

    tornado suggests that perhaps "he stayed till he was no further use then abandoned ship." This is arrant nonsense as by his own admission he FELL into a lifeboat. I would imagine that it is not the responsibility of the Captain to runaround and climb" up and down through water fire and sh*t till every last soul was off"I would suggest his role was to co-ordinate what was happening aboard the vessel and maintain communications with the rescue services. If he was able to do that from a lifeboat it is indeed fortunate that he FELL into one.

    Regards,

    kev35
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  3. #63
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    Yes he deviated off course its happened ! fait accompli.... Now we must look to the investigation and much better cruise ship safety practices to stop this happening in the future. Sh*t happens.
    Last edited by T-21; 19th January 2012 at 14:10.
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  4. #64
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    Of course one cannot predict how one would act in a situation like this.

    There are people who act in a non selfish manner and help others, be they women, children or the elderly. Sometimes doing so costs them their life. They may be called a hero or a fool depending on your outlook....
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev35 View Post
    The whole point is if he had NOT deviated from the prescribed course the vessel would not have hit ANY rocks and this tragedy would not have occurred. There is only one person responsible for that, Captain Schettino.

    tornado suggests that perhaps "he stayed till he was no further use then abandoned ship." This is arrant nonsense as by his own admission he FELL into a lifeboat. I would imagine that it is not the responsibility of the Captain to runaround and climb" up and down through water fire and sh*t till every last soul was off"I would suggest his role was to co-ordinate what was happening aboard the vessel and maintain communications with the rescue services. If he was able to do that from a lifeboat it is indeed fortunate that he FELL into one.

    Regards,

    kev35
    given that practicaly all communications on a ship that size would probably have to be electronic means just how much communication after the power failure was available to him

    myself personaly i do not know where the ships communications rooms were

    how do we know for sure he hadn't already passed the abandon ship message

    there are too many variables for us to presume before an enquiry

    to me the he did this he did that is all heresay , even saying he fell in the lifeboat is i feel not the full story

    we realy do need to hear a full hearing

    maybe it was off course but also not something or an area he was unfammiliar with as the company had done it before

    maybe with the same ship and captain

    lets not forget the old saying " while they're picking on him they're leaving me alone !!" and also think of the crew and company around him that may well be hiding behind it !!

  6. #66
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    apparently the ship wasn't new to accidents either wich could possibly pose the question of the company cutting corners too !!

    2008 bow damage

    On 22 November 2008, Costa Concordia suffered damage to her bow when high winds over the Sicilian city of Palermo pushed the ship against its dock. There were no injuries and repairs started soon after.[13][14]

  7. #67
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    If this is true there is no defence for the Captain and his cohorts

    "'Let down'

    Some 300 Philippine crew members of the Costa Concordia have arrived back in Manila.

    They looked visibly shaken by their ordeal, says the BBC's Kate McGeown in the capital.

    Some crew members said they did their job well, making sure their passengers were safe, but found the captain and officers had already left the ship by the time the "abandon ship" message was given. They said they felt angry and let down.

    "It's... horrible because it is supposed to be the captain to [be] the last one to stay on the ship if there is a collision like this and not the passengers and the crew members," Andrew Bacud, a steward on the ship, told the BBC. "


    Article
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16626640

  8. #68
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    but it is all people saying he should stay with the ship in the old fashion manner ..

    in reality what could he have done in that situation that others couldn't have done

    with no electric for communications there is the secondary method at sea of sending runners it doesn't take a great angle on deck to make this impractical and fruitless

    a better option as shore was so close could well have been to opperate directions from shore ( but a pompus know all coast guard nowhere near the scene may well have put paid to it !! )

    yep the coast guard may also be a contributing factor !! he was shouting and ordering him about with no knowledge of the situation as it seems he was in a cosy control room many miles away with no direct understanding of events and just going off the ideals of many !!

    lets not forget the herald of free enterprise was firmly with the captains blame , until it was discovered there was no way of knowing the doors were shut on the bridge and it was company policy and crew sloppiness that sank it !!

  9. #69
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    Italian maritime law (apparently) states the captain is last off his vessel.


    Many ships use handheld radios to communicate between crew members - even they work when the electric is off.


    Defend him all you want - he caused the disaster by his poor seamanship.


    A ship striking the dock while manouvering in high winds is hardly the same as dredging up half the coastline as you showed off to your mate on shore.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Italian maritime law (apparently) states the captain is last off his vessel.


    Many ships use handheld radios to communicate between crew members - even they work when the electric is off.


    Defend him all you want - he caused the disaster by his poor seamanship.


    A ship striking the dock while manouvering in high winds is hardly the same as dredging up half the coastline as you showed off to your mate on shore.
    but you my friend are the same as i !! a keyboard warrior !!

    that is why there are long lasting legal enquiries to get all sides versions before making a decision

    things aren't always as they seem till they have done so

    the best thing to remember is to take everything you hear on tv and read in the papers and wipe yer ars* on it

    it isn't that long ago that iraq had weapons of mass destruction and liverpool fans were urinating on and pickpocketing thier own dead at hillsborough according to the media !!
    Last edited by tornado64; 19th January 2012 at 17:12.

  11. #71
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    I wouldn't claim to be a keyboard warrior - and I think I'll stick to Andrex for the wiping...
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  12. #72
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    [QUOTE=Bob;1847252]Italian maritime law (apparently) states the captain is last off his vessel.


    Many ships use handheld radios to communicate between crew members - even they work when the electric is off.


    Defend him all you want - he caused the disaster by his poor seamanship.


    Bob I agree with your comments.Hand held comms are issued, and in fact I still have a couple of Icoms myself, I would never go to Sea without them, also my fixed radio on chanel 16, just in case. Believe me, the Coastguards would have known exactly what was going on, they have Satellite info plus radar, and I would be very surprised if the Captain was not warned pre accident, by the Coastguards, that he was too close to the shore,They would also have known by the same method that he was sailing too close to the rocks, one can only presume the Charts were old and no updates had been done, close inshore, as well as rocks, there may well have been sandbars to evade.
    A monumental cockup by any standards, and one which should never have happened.
    Jim.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev35 View Post
    Do you know any of the dead personally?

    He has been shown by the previous transcripts to be, shall we say, less than competent (I suspect that's being kind) and if this newspaper report is correct he, in one sentence, both admits culpability "I ordered the turn too late." and in the next breath tries to suggest that he doesn't know "why it happened." Might it not be the simple fact that he was doing something he shouldn't have done in an area where he shouldn't have done it? And because of that simple fact, somewhere in the region of 35 people have paid for those mistakes with their lives.

    Sandy.

    You know just as much (or as little) as I do. All either of us are doing are voicing opinions onn the news as it is reported. But then again, as we all know, opinions are just like a*seholes, in as much as that everyone has one. Either of us or even both of us may be wrong in our opinions, only time will tell. But for now, the evidence presented against Captain Schettino is pretty compelling.

    Regards,

    kev35
    Kev, I'm afraid to say this, but all I see here is you being as prejudice and unreasonable as the people I've seen you taking to task for on therese forums. Whatever happened to due process?

    There is no denying, it was chaos that evening.
    However, in chaotic scenes, some things will appear to be what they are not.

    So far, all we have to go by is what the media are feeding us and statements from hostile witnesses. In that audio recording between Schettino and the coast guard, he was clearly not being given a chance to explain what was going on. The coast guard clearly judged him from a far and were far from constructive in their communication with him. In fact, the communicating coast guard even showed severe prejudice by stating "I will make sure you get in trouble". He heckled Schettino all the way through the recording.

    I'm not for one second saying Schettino is blameless. Indeed, he's admitted making mistakes but stands firm that he did not abandon the ship and its passengers. There are accounts of him staying beside the ship in a boat. Once the ship was dark and listing heavily, what good would have come from his clambering back aboard?

    Also, where was the Captain when the initial collision took place? I read reports that had him at the dinner table. Then I read people comdemning him for not being on the bridge.
    It's convenient that people forget Cruise Captain's regularly eat dinner with the guests. Friday the 13th was no different aboad the Concordia than any other cruise ship in that respect.

    Again, I'm not saying the man has no blame to take, but let's not call him names and prejudge him before the investigation is complete.
    Last edited by Bmused55; 19th January 2012 at 19:27.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmused55 View Post
    Kev, I'm afraid to say this, but all I see here is you being as prejudice and unreasonable as the people I've seen you taking to task for on therese forums. Whatever happened to due process?

    There is no denying, it was chaos that evening.
    However, in chaotic scenes, some things will appear to be what they are not.

    So far, all we have to go by is what the media are feeding us and statements from hostile witnesses. In that audio recording between Schettino and the coast guard, he was clearly not being given a chance to explain what was going on. The coast guard clearly judged him from a far and were far from constructive in their communication with him.

    He's admitted making mistakes but stands firm that he did not abandon the ship and its passengers. There are accounts of him staying beside the ship in a boat. Once the ship was dark and listing heavily, what good would have come from his clambering back aboard?

    Also, where was the Captain when the initial collision took place? I read reports that had him at the dinner table. Then I read people comdemning him for not being on the bridge.
    It's convenient that people forget Cruise Captain's regularly eat dinner with the guests. Friday the 13th was no different aboad the Concordia than any other cruise ship in that respect.

    Again, I'm not saying the man has no blame to take, but let's not call him names and prejudge him before the investigation is complete.
    agreed !! there is little being said about the woman that has stated she was on the bridge , an ex company employee and stated he and others did everything possible to save as many lives as possible before leaving

    there are two sides to every story presently we are being delivered one side !!

  15. #75
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    Regardless of the actions taken by certain individuals after the ship reached her current resting place, someone on board made a fairly quick assessment of the situation that had suddenly arisen and, despite apparently having lost propulsion (and hence steering), managed to get the ship turned around and closer inshore. It was this action that probably accounted for the vast majority of those on board successfully getting ashore.

    There's been a lot of talk about the way that the ship rolled over yards from the shore. If the water had been a little deeper, it is quite possible that she might have reached the 20 degree list that she acquired fairly early on, and remained at that angle. Because the water was fairly shallow where she ended up, I think that it's likely that - as she was still filling with water and losing what buoyancy and stability she still had left - she began to roll over further with the curved underbody resting on the bottom already.

    From what I have read in the press and online, there seems to be one major difference between how this tragedy will be treated in Italy, compared to how it would have been handled in, say, the UK. Had British authorities been involved, the accident and events following would be examined in detail by the Marine Accident Investigation Branch, a body who generally do not apportion blame but make suggestions to prevent another tragedy of the same type from occurring again. The Italians, however, seem to be treating this purely as a criminal trial.

    What lessons - if any - will be learned from this remain to be seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmused55 View Post
    Kev, I'm afraid to say this, but all I see here is you being as prejudice and unreasonable as the people I've seen you taking to task for on therese forums. Whatever happened to due process?
    I think due process abandoned ship at about the same time as Captain Schettino 'fell' into a lifeboat. He has already admitted that he was grandstanding and that he 'made the turn too late.' That is an admission of guilt. He did not turn the boat in time. He may not have foreseen what was to happen next but he is no less guilty for that. He was playing with a multi million pound cruise ship and 4,000 lives. Had he have been where he was supposed to be none of this would have happened. The evidence available so far, including Captain Schettino's admission of culpability, means that I cannot have any sympathy for him. He had a duty of care to the 4,000 or so people on that cruise, that duty was not carried out. He is a lucky man.
    He is alive, well and even at home. At least thirty of those people who entrusted their safety and indeed their lives to him were spectacularly failed.

    Regards,

    kev35
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  17. #77
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    I see the Police are looking for the Blonde woman. The Captain was ashore it seems and his fellow officers shouted at him to get back on board.
    2 Salvage Companies are vying to get the contract to empty the ship of fuel, get the ship righted, after initial repairs, and then taken for a possible total re fit. I guess a lot of what we have heard is speculation as there will be nearly 4,000 Statements to be taken, and due process will take 2 or 3 yrs. The Italian Judicial system is not known for it's speed.
    It's going to be a long wait, As Fox Moulder says, "The truth is out there".
    Jim.

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    This Captain will be remembered in the same light as the skipper of the Oceanos.

  19. #79
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    This Captain will be remembered in the same light as the skipper of the Oceanos.
    Who gave the world these stirring words:

    "When I give the order abandon ship, it doesn't matter what time I leave. Abandon is for everybody. If some people want to stay, they can stay."

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    Quote Originally Posted by kev35 View Post
    I think due process abandoned ship at about the same time as Captain Schettino 'fell' into a lifeboat. He has already admitted that he was grandstanding and that he 'made the turn too late.' That is an admission of guilt.
    It's an admission of making mistakes, that is for sure.
    Still does not qualify you to call him names and state it as fact.


    Quote Originally Posted by kev35 View Post
    He is a lucky man. He is alive, well and even at home. At least thirty of those people who entrusted their safety and indeed their lives to him were spectacularly failed.

    Regards,

    kev35
    The man is under house arrest. He can't go anywhere else. What has that got to do with anything? Your taking circumstances and making them fit your argument.
    We do not know the circumstances of those 30 people. Did they ignore instructions to go to the boat deck? Did they speak different languages to everyone else and not realise the life vests were a serious sign of trouble?

    At least one person has stated their friend when back to their cabin for their belongings (A violin I think), despite the ship being dark and listing heavily. That person is on the list of the dead.

    If people do not respond to instructions and go do their own thing, that isn't exactly the fault of the Captain or whoever is in charge. Free will is something we are all born with.

    Lets wait and find out why those people were still inside the ship while the other 3970 were on deck or in boats.

    Quote Originally Posted by fv24 View Post
    Regardless of the actions taken by certain individuals after the ship reached her current resting place, someone on board made a fairly quick assessment of the situation that had suddenly arisen and, despite apparently having lost propulsion (and hence steering), managed to get the ship turned around and closer inshore. It was this action that probably accounted for the vast majority of those on board successfully getting ashore.
    And by all accounts, that was the Captain. But, we do not know for sure yet.
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  21. #81
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    [s]omeone on board made a fairly quick assessment of the situation that had suddenly arisen and, despite apparently having lost propulsion (and hence steering), managed to get the ship turned around and closer inshore.
    And by all accounts, that was the Captain...
    Hmm, with no steering and no propulsion? Must have been towed there by the gallant captain in a lifeboat - that's what he was doing!!!!

    Three cheers for Il Capitano!!!
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    again this morning there is more footage with the news agencies broadcasting it in a negative way !!

    it involves a female member of the crew instructing passengers to keep calm and return to thier cabins !!

    the news sold the negative side

    my first thaughts were " but what if this film was shot at upper deck levels !! the lifeboats are at the lower deck levels if the cabins were on the lifeboat deck level it would make sense for crew to calmly send them to thier cabins to get them nearer the lifeboats without panic

    the news decided to instantly condemn without actualy checking all facts i'd guess

    and lets not forget shall we " captain smith also turned too late , but a company CEO was also a contributing factor by insisting he sailed too fast !!"

    we don't know all facts hell the investigators don't yet , if as it seems he has made grave errors i'd image the lives lost will be punnishment enough for him

    but on the same token we should not be led by press and news agencies as they depict to full impact and not always correctly

    lets remember the uk newspapers are currently in court being charged with multiple cases of phone hacking ( not only celebrities but murder victims et al ...... would you realy trust individuals like that to report the truth ???

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Hmm, with no steering and no propulsion? Must have been towed there by the gallant captain in a lifeboat - that's what he was doing!!!!

    Three cheers for Il Capitano!!!
    Why the sarcasm.
    The ship DID turn around and DID ground itself in shallower water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmused55 View Post
    Why the sarcasm.
    .
    bacause like a great deal of the population he is incapable of self rational thaught and would believe it if less than honnest news agencies told him the sky was green and grass was blue !!

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    I am more than capable of self rational thaught (sic) - the Captain is guilty by his own admission (The ship's captain, Francesco Schettino, has admitted to making a navigational error, Italian media reported. He told investigators he had "ordered the turn too late" as the luxury ship sailed close to an island, according to a leaked interrogation transcript.).

    The degree of his guilt and his responsibilty for the deaths of 30+ people will no doubt be revealed in the fullness of time.

    Insult my intelligence if you wish - sticks and stones and all that...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tornado64 View Post
    but you my friend are the same as i !! a keyboard warrior !!
    Yes indeed, it would appear that yours is one without a "Shift" key !!!!!

    Planemike

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    "according to a leaked interrogation transcript" There's your clue.
    A conversation like that should never be "leaked". Who knows whether or not it is true?

    Yes, the Captain has the ultimate responsibility. But is he the devil that he's being made out to be? Who knows.

    My gut tells me he's being made a scapegoat. All these "leaked" bits of information are all suspiciously trying to paint the same picture.

    Meanwhile, more passengers and coming forward with different stories.
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    Meanwhile, more passengers and coming forward with different stories.
    Hmmm, and all seem to point to a complete screw up apart from the 'mystery Moldovian woman' who happened to be on the bridge with the captain even though she (allegedly) is not crew or even on the passenger manifest.

    All leaks, but not as big as the leak that sank the ship...
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    Leadership

    Leadership - the one thing that no-one seems to have mentioned.

    I don't think that anybody expects the captain to go down with the ship, but in these sort of situations surely the captain must set an example, and be seen to to be in control of the situation. The captain departing the ship, for whatever reason, before all the passengers and crew have been evacuated must inevitably be seen as "I'm all right Jack" and the signal that it's every man for himself.

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    I was just thinking to myself.

    If this had been an aircraft accident, the forum thought police would have
    been telling us how distasteful these comments are, and how we shouldn't
    speculate as to the causes.

    It's a funny old world.

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