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Thread: T-50, M-346 and Yak-130 advance trainers future prospect?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    The long tails on the Yak and M-346 bother me. I'm surprised with the way their back end lays out they didn't opt for a more visually pleasant experience. Can anyone look at the now defunct Javelin project and say its unappealing to the eye?

    You would want your trainers to be as stable and predictible in flight performance as possible, hense the large tail.
    See Flanker design and compair em.

    Nothing comes for free.
    Thanks

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla View Post
    You would want your trainers to be as stable and predictible in flight performance as possible, hense the large tail.
    See Flanker design and compair em.

    Nothing comes for free.
    they are supposed to be unstable designs..

  3. #93
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    Stable In the forwards Directional plane. Thats what the Stabz do you know.
    But of course you knew that allready freddy..
    Last edited by haavarla; 18th January 2012 at 09:28.
    Thanks

  4. #94
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    The twin tails on the Javelin lay in the airstream. The single tail has to be tall to hit that same airstream. The M-346 and Yak-130 could have opted for twin tails to not only be prettier, but to have some control surface redundancy.
    Go Huskers!

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    M-346 is a graceful aircraft. Not sure that you don't get more bang for the buck going for L-159. The IAI could probably buy the rights to build their own L-159's at a competitive price.
    I'm sure that anyone with some cash who isn't barred from buying the US components could buy the entire stock of stored L-159s plus full manufacturing rights at a very good price indeed. But they'd have the problem of an orphan type, with only a handful in Czech service.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  6. #96
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    Everything in the cockit is COTS and the engine is used by M-346.
    Go Huskers!

  7. #97
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    From Jerusalem Posts : http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=254415

    Seems the ROK says to Israel," I have more budget than Italian now. You better buy our stuff if you want bigger deal for your own stuff, then the Italian can give you".

    Seems this two Trainers which are build on different philosophy, but will compete on similar marketing tactics .
    Last edited by ananda; 20th January 2012 at 01:02.

  8. #98
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    M-346 is choice of IDF but Korea is dangling some future contracts. These kind of tactics works in countries like Israel that are short of funds and always looking for contracts for it companies but it will not work in countries like China/ Saudi/Russia. when there is abundance of money.
    The thing that Israel produce like UAV/radars are cheaper than those produced by US/EU. so it is not that Korea is doing any favor to them.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    M-346 is choice of IDF but Korea is dangling some future contracts. These kind of tactics works in countries like Israel that are short of funds and always looking for contracts for it companies but it will not work in countries like China/ Saudi/Russia. when there is abundance of money.
    The thing that Israel produce like UAV/radars are cheaper than those produced by US/EU. so it is not that Korea is doing any favor to them.
    which is moot because Korea will never sell their T-50 to China/Saudi/Russia. they got their own products. Saudi could be an exception but unlikely.

    in related news.. South Korean AF orders prototypes of FA-50 to be built. Again if an an air force will be flying FA-50s for their light fighter, T-50 makes very much sense as their main trainer.

    other wise i do like M-346.. but prefer the looks of older Yak-130.. looks stealthy

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-20 Hotdog View Post
    which is moot because Korea will never sell their T-50 to China/Saudi/Russia. they got their own products. Saudi could be an exception but unlikely.
    Saudi Arabia is possible, when the Hawks need replacing. The UAE shortlisted the T-50 & M-346.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Saudi Arabia is possible, when the Hawks need replacing. The UAE shortlisted the T-50 & M-346.
    What happens when the UAE Master deal completely falls through? New contest?

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Saudi Arabia is possible, when the Hawks need replacing. The UAE shortlisted the T-50 & M-346.
    'Best replacement for a Hawk is a new Hawk.

    Hawk, M346, Yak130 and most trainers are not stealthy.

  13. #103
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    You can conceivably fill the Kfir's old niche with a fleshed out T-50. The M-346 really isn't something you can really develop much beyond a trainer. Just a thought.
    Go Huskers!

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    You can conceivably fill the Kfir's old niche with a fleshed out T-50. The M-346 really isn't something you can really develop much beyond a trainer. Just a thought.
    I believe that's the idea of F/A-50. KAI and Lockheed design T-50 for something that can be further developed from supersonic advance trainer, toward LIFT, and Supersonic Light Fighter that aimed to fill the gap of F-5 and possible Mig-21.

    The original design for F/A-50 I believe was a singgle seater with GE-414 as powerplant. Equiped with Aesa and have 9 weapons hardpoint. In sense it's something that comparable with Grippen. With KF-X in hand, I Don't Know if KAI have appetite to developed T-50 to original FA-50 design, or they will come out with some lower specs compromise than original FA-50 design (for the final FA-50). Because if I see from KAI sites, this present FA-50, is something that just little bit more advance than TA-50 (LIFT version of T-50), and not the original FA-50 design called for.

  15. #105
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    Might have already been reported, if so apologies, must have missed it.

    Dutch source

    Russia has sold 36 Yak-130s to Syria. The contract was signed in december and is valued at 425 million euro. The Russian newspaper Kommersant reported this today.

    Syria signed the contract with Rosoboronexport. The first planes will be delivered as soon as the first downpayment has been received.


    There is a bit of confusion in the Dutch article on the number of jet that have been ordered. In the first line it mentions specifically 36 Yak-130s. In the last line of the article it mentions 55 planes. Judging from the (poor) google translation of the Kommersant article I think the 55 planes refer to the combined order made by Syria and previously by Rusia.
    Click here to view my photos at JetPhotos.net!
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  16. #106
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    Syria ordered 36, the 55 is a recent additional order by the RussianMOD, over the 1st dozen batch.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  17. #107
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    So, appearently this means that the Cremlin vouches in favour of Assad in action and not just words.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananda View Post
    I believe that's the idea of F/A-50. KAI and Lockheed design T-50 for something that can be further developed from supersonic advance trainer, toward LIFT, and Supersonic Light Fighter that aimed to fill the gap of F-5 and possible Mig-21.

    The original design for F/A-50 I believe was a singgle seater with GE-414 as powerplant. Equiped with Aesa and have 9 weapons hardpoint. In sense it's something that comparable with Grippen. With KF-X in hand, I Don't Know if KAI have appetite to developed T-50 to original FA-50 design, or they will come out with some lower specs compromise than original FA-50 design (for the final FA-50). Because if I see from KAI sites, this present FA-50, is something that just little bit more advance than TA-50 (LIFT version of T-50), and not the original FA-50 design called for.
    There was a plan and it is called F-50 and yes it had aesa and a 414. Unfortunately the government wont pay for development and buy it because there is no place in between the FA-50 and F-16 for it. So it is scraped but maybe KAI will do it for a customer but it is unlikely.

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleSpirit View Post
    Unfortunately the government wont pay for development and buy it because there is no place in between the FA-50 and F-16 for it. So it is scraped but maybe KAI will do it for a customer but it is unlikely.
    The only scenario that I think possible if the KF-X design team decided that their twin engine design is unaffordable and opted to developed singgle engine design of T-50 further as KF-X. Which btw, seems also has small chances.

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananda View Post
    From Jerusalem Posts : http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=254415

    Seems the ROK says to Israel," I have more budget than Italian now. You better buy our stuff if you want bigger deal for your own stuff, then the Italian can give you".

    Seems this two Trainers which are build on different philosophy, but will compete on similar marketing tactics .
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...ystem-1.408964

    0.6 bill more (And more long term and diverse too) Iron Dome (im guessing) Ground based radar (More SuperGreenPines?) and quality avionics.

  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-20 Hotdog View Post
    which is moot because Korea will never sell their T-50 to China/Saudi/Russia. they got their own products. Saudi could be an exception but unlikely.

    in related news.. South Korean AF orders prototypes of FA-50 to be built. Again if an an air force will be flying FA-50s for their light fighter, T-50 makes very much sense as their main trainer.

    other wise i do like M-346.. but prefer the looks of older Yak-130.. looks stealthy
    aside the fact that on that pic it's camouflaged, it's the same aircraft


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-130

  22. #112
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    The nose is completely different now. Longer and roundish.

  23. #113
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    Italian counter sweetener for Israel on behalf of M-346 : http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/glob...did=1000718563

    One thing for sure both Italian and ROK need this deal to improve the chances of their respective Jet Trainers in the future market.

  24. #114
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    9 hardpoints. Looks nice.

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-20 Hotdog View Post
    which is moot because Korea will never sell their T-50 to China/Saudi/Russia. they got their own products. Saudi could be an exception but unlikely.

    in related news.. South Korean AF orders prototypes of FA-50 to be built. Again if an an air force will be flying FA-50s for their light fighter, T-50 makes very much sense as their main trainer.

    other wise i do like M-346.. but prefer the looks of older Yak-130.. looks stealthy
    The huge cockpit alone prevents such designs to be stealthy at all.

  26. #116
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    Alenia Aermacchi participates in the Singapore Air Show 2012



    Finmeccanica’s aeronautics sector, led by Alenia Aermacchi, is to exhibit at the Singapore Air Show, to be held at the Changi Exhibition Center from 14 to 19 February 2012 (stand J-39).

    The Singapore Air Show is today Asia’s largest showcase for aerospace and defence, and Alenia Aermacchi, the largest Italian aeronautics company to operate worldwide in the design, development, production and integrated support of civil and military aircraft, trainers, unmanned aircraft and aerostructures, is there to exhibit its main products and those of its subsidiaries.

    Over the years, Italy has developed a solid industrial alliance with Asia, and Finmeccanica’s aeronautics division has built partnerships in the defence sector, taking part in a variety of successful programmes. Most recently, in 2010, Alenia Aermacchi was awarded its first international contract to supply 12 M-346 advanced trainers for the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF), through the consortium formed by ST Aerospace (prime contractor) and Boeing.

    Furthermore, in June 2011, Alenia Aermacchi finalised contracts with ST Aerospace to provide logistics support for the RSAF’s fleet of M-346s, again as part of the Fighter Wings Course (FWC) programme.

    For the Finmeccanica group company, Singapore and the Asia region are a fundamental part of its growth strategy, offering business opportunities in the short and medium term. Through the Italo-French joint venture ATR (Alenia Aermacchi/EADS), the company has formed a close relationship with Singapore, and more generally South East Asia, not only by selling a large number of regional transport aircraft, but also by opening a customer support centre in Singapore and training facilities in Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur. Furthermore, it has some exciting prospects in relation to the replacement of the Singapore Navy’s patrol aircraft and the supply of ATR 42 and ATR 72 maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) to the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) and the Philippines’ Air Force.

    There are also some interesting opportunities for the C-27J in Asia, and Indonesia in particular.

    Two Italian Air Force’s M-346 aircraft (T-346A) and a C-27J will be displayed At the Singapore Air Show.

    On stand J-39 Alenia Aermacchi is exhibiting models of its own aircraft: the M-346, an advanced trainer, designed to train pilots to fly next-generation, high-performance military aircraft, and the C-27J Spartan, a tactical transport aircraft that offers high levels of operational efficiency, flexibility and excellent performance in all environmental conditions. Other exhibits include a model of the ATR 42 MP, the maritime patrol version of the ATR 42 developed by Alenia Aermacchi; the Eurofighter Typhoon, the supersonic twin-engine aircraft developed and produced in partnership by Alenia Aermacchi for Italy, BAE Systems for the UK and EADS for Germany and Spain; and a model of the Sukhoi Superjet 100 regional transport jet, which Alenia Aermacchi, as part the Superjet International joint venture with Sukhoi Holding, markets, sells and customises in Europe,

    The US, Africa, Japan and Oceania, as well as providing pilot training and after-sales support worldwide.


    Source: By Rob Vogelaar, 10 February 2012 - Alenia Aermacchi News (www.aviationnews.eu) and www.xairforces.net

    Photo: Italian Air Force M-346 (T-346A) aircraft (Photo by Alenia Aermacchi)

  27. #117
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by raptor2019 View Post
    Alenia Aermacchi participates in the Singapore Air Show 2012



    Finmeccanica’s aeronautics sector, led by Alenia Aermacchi, is to exhibit at the Singapore Air Show, to be held at the Changi Exhibition Center from 14 to 19 February 2012 (stand J-39).

    The Singapore Air Show is today Asia’s largest showcase for aerospace and defence, and Alenia Aermacchi, the largest Italian aeronautics company to operate worldwide in the design, development, production and integrated support of civil and military aircraft, trainers, unmanned aircraft and aerostructures, is there to exhibit its main products and those of its subsidiaries.

    Over the years, Italy has developed a solid industrial alliance with Asia, and Finmeccanica’s aeronautics division has built partnerships in the defence sector, taking part in a variety of successful programmes. Most recently, in 2010, Alenia Aermacchi was awarded its first international contract to supply 12 M-346 advanced trainers for the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF), through the consortium formed by ST Aerospace (prime contractor) and Boeing.

    Furthermore, in June 2011, Alenia Aermacchi finalised contracts with ST Aerospace to provide logistics support for the RSAF’s fleet of M-346s, again as part of the Fighter Wings Course (FWC) programme.

    For the Finmeccanica group company, Singapore and the Asia region are a fundamental part of its growth strategy, offering business opportunities in the short and medium term. Through the Italo-French joint venture ATR (Alenia Aermacchi/EADS), the company has formed a close relationship with Singapore, and more generally South East Asia, not only by selling a large number of regional transport aircraft, but also by opening a customer support centre in Singapore and training facilities in Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur. Furthermore, it has some exciting prospects in relation to the replacement of the Singapore Navy’s patrol aircraft and the supply of ATR 42 and ATR 72 maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) to the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) and the Philippines’ Air Force.

    There are also some interesting opportunities for the C-27J in Asia, and Indonesia in particular.

    Two Italian Air Force’s M-346 aircraft (T-346A) and a C-27J will be displayed At the Singapore Air Show.

    On stand J-39 Alenia Aermacchi is exhibiting models of its own aircraft: the M-346, an advanced trainer, designed to train pilots to fly next-generation, high-performance military aircraft, and the C-27J Spartan, a tactical transport aircraft that offers high levels of operational efficiency, flexibility and excellent performance in all environmental conditions. Other exhibits include a model of the ATR 42 MP, the maritime patrol version of the ATR 42 developed by Alenia Aermacchi; the Eurofighter Typhoon, the supersonic twin-engine aircraft developed and produced in partnership by Alenia Aermacchi for Italy, BAE Systems for the UK and EADS for Germany and Spain; and a model of the Sukhoi Superjet 100 regional transport jet, which Alenia Aermacchi, as part the Superjet International joint venture with Sukhoi Holding, markets, sells and customises in Europe,

    The US, Africa, Japan and Oceania, as well as providing pilot training and after-sales support worldwide.


    Source: By Rob Vogelaar, 10 February 2012 - Alenia Aermacchi News (www.aviationnews.eu) and www.xairforces.net

    Photo: Italian Air Force M-346 (T-346A) aircraft (Photo by Alenia Aermacchi)
    Good Lord, what's happening with you raptor2019

    What date is in Glarus today?

    Do you realize that you are constantly giving us news which are not news anymore, as they are usually 2 to 3 weeks old

  28. #118
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    I believe that twin-seat version of JF-17 will beat these all ^_^
    The truth usually between two extremes, the key is when and where.

  29. #119
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    I agree too...

  30. #120
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    Are Northrop Grumman still working on something for the T-X program ? Something based on the F-5B perhaps ?

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