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Thread: Rafale news XII

  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilTheBeloved View Post
    oh gee the saga continues
    Why? These are bids for the production facility for the Rafale..

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilTheBeloved View Post
    oh gee the saga continues
    What "saga continues" ? Did you even read the article before rolling your eyes ?

    HAL is simply inviting bids to build the new manufacturing complex for the MRCA. This is the logical next step in the process since HAL needs to build a new assembly plant for the MRCA and if things go as planned then by late 2014 the plant should be ready. Well in time for HAL to begin all the work related to transfer of Rafale documentation and jigs/fixtures and tooling for assembly to begin in 2016.

    Bangalore, March 25:

    Defence aircraft maker Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd has invited bids to build a new design and manufacturing complex in Bangalore for MMRCA fighter planes.

    The facility is estimated to cost Rs 360 crore and is to be completed two years from the award date.

    ..

    HAL plans to locate it at Challaghatta where it has large tracts of land. The integrated ‘green' factory complex will include hangars, runways and residential units.

    The area is close to the old international airport, which was closed to commercial flights in May 2008.

    ..
    "By the whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch!"

  3. #423
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    Sorry for the short off topic and we might continue this discussion in the Typhoon news thread, but this can't be left uncommented. The "~10°" figure is completely unsubstantiated.
    The SEER system made by the same company and using the same arangement (dual wide-band antenna per sector) is quoted as 10° RMS by its maker.

    http://www.selexgalileo.com/EN/Commo...ter_dsh298.pdf

    (one should notice that this "digital" RWR is quite similar to the proposed upgrade for Typhoon)

    We don't even know for sure whether DASS employs interferometers or not.
    Look, there are pictures of the system available on the internet.

    For example http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/B...%20Typhoon.jpg

    Notice the two spiral (wideband) antenna at the ends of each pod? These are the RWR antenna, just ask any sepcialist and I'm positive he'll confirm it.

    These are NOT interferometry arrays but "classic" pairs of antenna, an interferometry array requires at least four (but usually five) antennas deplayed in a planar configuration (in a cross although mathematically and dispotistion that isn't simply linear works).

    As the right wing-tip pod is designed to accommodate two TRDs this is a no-brainer. The rearward facing ESM/ECM antenna offers a wide FoR to provide full coverage of the rear hemisphere.
    Unless the laws of physics have changed, fitting a TRX creates a significant blind spot. It also prevents the use of cross-eye jamming for that hemisphere.

    So it's not like TRD is a no-brainer, it has a significant impact on the plane ECM capabilities (lose some, win some, as always it's a compromise).

    The lack of accuracy in this case a pure speculation of yours, if not an outright invention.
    Once again, look at the picture, there are no antenna arrays anywhere.

    Is it that hard to get? Don't you think the the Eurofighter consortium would communicate publicly on such a feature? Dassault did for the Mirage 2k and Rafale, Saab did it for the Gripen upgrades, Boeing for the F-18 Growler, Lockheed for the F-16 Blck60 and the F-35.

    The silence from EADS is deafening...

    You forget about PIRATE which offers very accurate angular position data, range data, velocity, acceleration, rough target vector and the target ID in STTI mode.
    By the time an IRST is able to give you a firing solution by tracking only, you're already at the merge (not that you were very far at the beginning given the range of an IRST).

    Captor reportedly offers a passive mode as well
    Reported by whom?

    Captor is a single, narrow-band, antenna, it's even worse than a dedicated RWR as far as positioning is concerned, this idea is just ridiculous.

    DASS was merely designed by two companies, like SPECTRA which is designed by MBDA and Thales.
    Invalid comparison. SPECTRA was designed by Thales which sub-contracted the chaff and flare dispensers to MBDA. Both ESM and ECM functions were designed by the same teams. The same company also designed the modular avionics that make the SIGINT/ELINT function possible.

    DASS ECM was designed in Italy and the ESM in the UK by different companies. And a third one did the avionics, one whose concept of sensor fusion is apparently limited to the elimination of duplicate tracks when displaying the tactical situation to the pilot (that didn't really impress the Swiss if we go by their evalution, sensor fusion was specifically quoted as a weak point).

  4. #424
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    Blue Apple,

    With respect, you're writing nonsense.

    You make assumptions about DASS which are simply wrong, and about why its sensor fusion received a well-justified kicking in Switzerland, back in 2008.

    SEER is a cheap RWR upgrade designed to be fit and form compatible with Sky Guardian. It should not be compared to DASS

    PIRATE's range FAR outreaches the merge.

    But this is all dragging us away from Rafale news, and there's plenty of that, not least with the various developments in India.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Apple View Post
    Is it that hard to get? Don't you think the the Eurofighter consortium would communicate publicly on such a feature? Dassault did for the Mirage 2k and Rafale, Saab did it for the Gripen upgrades, Boeing for the F-18 Growler, Lockheed for the F-16 Blck60 and the F-35.

    The silence from EADS is deafening...
    Wait, haven't you received their latest simulation update ?

    Anyway let's be fair and agree that picture can be deceptive...
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

  6. #426
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    Brazil :

    Brazil's Rousseff to weigh French jet buy in India

    AFP, March 26


    BRASILIA — President Dilma Rousseff plans to use her New Delhi visit later this week to sound out Indian leaders on the French Rafale fighter jet, which she is considering buying to beef up Brazil's air force.

    On Wednesday Rousseff is to attend the New Delhi summit of the BRICS (Brazil, China, India, Russia and South Africa) nations aiming to discuss increased cooperation among the five emerging powers, including the establishment of their own development bank.The next day Rousseff will begin a state visit in India, and officials say the Rafale, which India has selected for its air force, will be a top agenda item.


    The Rafale, made by French firm Dassault, is in competition with the F/A-18 Super Hornet, manufactured by US aviation giant Boeing, and Swedish manufacturer Saab's Gripen jet, for a Brazilian contract for 36 aircraft valued at $4 billion and $7 billion.
    "The exchange of ideas, impressions" on the Rafale "is certainly beneficial for us," Maria Edileuza Fonteneles Reis, a senior foreign ministry official, said last week."
    India's decision, which has not yet been formalized, could have an impact on Brazil's choice because it would show that the Rafale, which so far has never been exported to another country, has one customer," said Nelson During, a respected Brazilian defense experts who runs the Defesanet website.
    "It could resurrect an old project debated by the two countries in 2002 to join hands to produce the same plane," he added.

    Brazilian Defense Minister Celso Amorim traveled to India in February to discuss prospects for a "technical military accord."

    "It's extremely interesting that the two countries are discussing a military accord" since each country could complement each other in the industrial sector, said During, recalling that India and Brazil plan to modernize their fighter jet fleet and develop a nuclear submarine.

    A senior Brazilian government source said Rousseff will decide on which fighter jet to choose after her trip to India, her visit to Washington in April, and the French presidential election in May.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
    Blue Apple,



    But this is all dragging us away from Rafale news, and there's plenty of that, not least with the various developments in India.

    And what exactly are the various Rafale-related 'developments in India. That HAL is calling bids to build a new manufacturing facility which means that negotiations are continuing?

    Or that the Brazilian president plans to discuss the Rafale purchase on the sidelines of her visit?

    Or are you referring to a parliamentary reply that the government is supposed to give to a legislator who keeps changing parties as he changes clothes and has lost most of his recent popular elections? I certainly don't see any other issue here since most of the media and major political parties haven't uttered a word about the Rafale deal despite all the hyperventilation in the British press.

  8. #428
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    Rafale has won the Indian competition and will get its long awaited Brazilian deal soon.

    Why aren't you lot much happier? You're favourite aircraft is sweeping all before it after decades of waiting and it seems all some people can do is point fingers, pick holes in the competition and complain!

    This should be smug central!

    I have been surprised to see more mention of Rafale and stealth recently on the MMRCA. Please can someone in the know give me facts (rather than impressions) of when they built RAM/Saw edge and shaping to reduces RCS into the programme?

    I know they are there I would just like to see when they evolved.

    Luv and Cuddles!

  9. #429
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    Dassault confident in the sale of the Rafale, despite new attacks in India
    Les Echos , March 19


    An Indian MP denounced the "violation" and "manipulation" of the tender won by Dassault for the sale of 126 fighter planes. Confident, the manufacturer hopes to conclude within six months.

    Six weeks after winning the jackpot in India, Dassault began to wipe away the first attacks to derail the negotiations, now exclusive to the sale of 126 Rafale in New Delhi. The Eurofighter consortium, which failed in the final, has clearly not given up. The contract, valued at $ 10 billion, should nevertheless be concluded in about six months, assures Eric Trappier, CEO of Dassault International [see above].

    After innuendo about the reality of the price offered by the French group, a new burst was launched of the end of February. In a letter to Indian Defense Minister, MP Mysoora Reddy denounced the "violation" of the evaluation process, and "manipulation" by which the "official" who were in charge reached an "incorrect"decision . The French aircraft were never purchased abroad, "why India would buy it? " he asks , before unleashing his last arrow: in Libya, the Rafale has failed in ground attack missions, to the point that the Eurofighter has been called in reinforcements!

    Proven multirole capability

    [u]Apart from the "Deccan Chronicle", which made good use of it, no major Indian newspaper has seen fit to follow. The final argument used by Mysoora Reddy indeed undermines his approach: unlike the Eurofighter, the Rafale has demonstrated all its multirole capabilities during Operation Harmattan. Nevertheless, the Indian Defense Minister had promised to study by its staff all issues raised by the member. On Tweeter information is up a notch: since "investigation is ongoing," it is because there are doubts about the outcome of the tender. Case made. So, the men of BAE Systems and EADS, two of the three companies in the Eurofighter consortium with Italy's Finmeccanica, did not deny themselves to use it , and since then it spreads.

    To nip in the bud any suspicion, Dassault emerged a 2009 article in the journal "Flightglobal" in which the first English rider to have tested the Rafale, expressed his admiration for the aircraft ... The manufacturer also remember that it outperformed its competitors in all competitions in which they competed.

    Gradually, as the negotiation goes forward, it is likely that the traps will multiply. Some will see behind the attacks the hand of BAE Systems, however Dassault's new best friend! Since the signing of the defense treaty between France and England in November 2010 at Lancaster House, the two companies are working together on the proposed next-generation UAV. Better, at the summit of Cameron-Sarkozy last month, the duo was awarded the first post-Rafale and Eurofighter studies.
    Until there is a signature nothing is done but as far as this accusation is concerned I am not that worried as each argument brought are easilliy debunkable. Certainly it can bring some confusion but it is rather a weak attempt to derail the negotiations.

    It does not seem to bother Dassault that much for the moment, especially as Trapier and Edelstenn spoke in the open press recentently and are still hoping a signature in around 6 months. So as far as I am concerned I still have a watchfull eyes on this episode but I am not that worried.

    Now Brazil and UAE chances can be considered as "good" and the confidence is such that some significant investment at Ellacourt facilities is being made to be ready for delivery on time the promised upgrades.

    So nothing is certain but the exports persepctives are nevertheless rather good for the rafale at this moment.

  10. #430
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    MrMalaya, you're true : we are happy.



    About RAM and sawtooth, it comes from requirement issued at the end on the 80s. It motivated the redesign of Rafale A in what was to become Rafale D, later renamed Rafale C. There is more than this to be said about this topic, but I lack time, and knowledge.

    One paragraph on my forum deal with RCS reduction measures. This is not speculation, or personal impressions, it comes from various publications (Air Actu, Air & Comos, Air Fan, mainly)
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/dossier...e-cag-t31.html
    Survivability

    Also influencing the aircraft shape : the survivability requirements drove to attenuate as much as possible the RCS (Radar Cross Section) as well as the IR (infrared) signature. To achieve this, the airframe has no right angle, or very few, no rupture, no slot of relief and the shape is linear. The air intake ducts are "double-S" shaped so as to hide the compressor blades. Some areas remained very hard to hide, and thus, they were concentrated on the airframe and treated with RAM (Radar absorbent materials), saw tooth on mobile parts, gold layer in the cockpit canopy so as to hide to pit. The radome only allow the RBE-2 waves to pass, then every antennas and little shapes as well as the fin are made of radar transparent materials. Other solutions are applied for the IR signature, some weapons are also treated (Scalp) against radar waves.

    All those solutions (but not only those) allow the Rafale to be "discreet", which materialize though the adoption by armies of special tactics to benefit from this discretion affecting the hostile sensors' ranges.
    Rafale news blog by Kovy :
    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

    The Rafale international forum :
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Apple View Post
    ...
    As stated before I will move the discussion where it belongs to. You cna find my reply here:
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showp...7&postcount=93

  12. #432
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    Europe Poised For Gradual Updates To Fighters
    The list of European militaries likely to benefit from these export-driven enhancements is long and includes the Swedish, French, British and German air forces.
    For the core air forces operating the Eurofighter Typhoon, the issue of both near- and long-term upgrades must still be sorted. For example, the British and German air forces, as well as Italian and Spanish users, have all expressed interest in upgrading the fighter’s radar with an AESA, although they have not allocated funding for this endeavor. Instead, they have relied on industry self-funding much of the early development because of the need to keep the combat aircraft internationally competitive. While hoping to have a raft of Typhoon upgrades available by March 2018, the U.K. so far has failed to address when key elements of those enhancements—such as the Storm Shadow cruise missile and Meteor air-to-air missile—will emerge on the fighter.
    Germany, for example, which is unwilling to buy more Eurofighters or to fund enhancements that would enable them take on additional roles, also is financing an upgrade drive for its Tornado fleet. The plan is to keep the aircraft operational until 2025—not just in its strike role, but also as a tactical reconnaissance asset and suppression of enemy air defense system.
    The situation is more settled in France, at least for now. Partly because of France’s determination to secure an export order for Rafale, the government moved to finance upgrades to the twin-engine fighter in order to make the system attractive in international competitions. That push, more than the needs of the French air force and navy, drove Paris to allocate funding several years ago to ensure upgrades to the REB2 radar, optronics (electro-optical) system and electronic warfare equipment (the DDM-NG). The F3-04T standard is due for qualification this year, ahead of delivery in 2013.

    The French navy and air force can also look to further upgrades beyond 2013. The government has placed an order for Meteor air-to-air missiles that should become available around 2018. Also in store is a targeting pod enhancement, adding video capability to Damocles.

    One big unknown is how the outcome of the French presidential election—the second and final round is due in May—will affect long-term budget plans. The pace of introducing some of the upgrades into French forces could slide.

    In addition, France will face another series of Rafale upgrades in the next decade as military leaders seek to prepare the backbone of their combat aircraft fleet for a major mid-life modification. Thus, the shopping list is long and still includes radical ideas such as adding conformal radar arrays to provide enhanced sensor coverage and radar-cross-section reductions.
    As far as I know, Holland will keep the same trend with military expenditures that Sarkozy had, so I doubt we will see any major changes if he's elected.
    Second point how come France was able to fund all the F3-04T upgrades by cancelling 2 aircraft deliveries and with four countries the EFT isn't able to fund even half of that despite massive cancellation ?!

    EDIT: PS: Also the author seems to confirm some suspicions about Germany reluctance to upgrade the EFT in favour of the Tornados...
    Last edited by Mildave; 27th March 2012 at 12:29.
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

  13. #433
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    In relation to the previous debate and from the same source as above:
    Thales, which also is the prime contractor for Rafale’s Spectre electronic warfare suite, notes that the system has the fidelity to also function as an elint collector.

    The French air force is eager to maintain the capability because it believes employing the sigint tool on a fighter can trick air defense operators into activating their radar and allow vital information to be gleaned.
    As far as unique capabilities of the Rafale are concerned, this is one of them. It makes the Rafale more than just a fighter/striker, but a intelligence gathering platform. And with the addition of stand off weapons like the AASM (or any similar class of weapons) a deadly SEAD/DEAD platform as well.
    Now with SPECTRA + Reco NG pod + AASM, you get tactical/strategic reconnaissance + suppression of enemy air defense system combo in a single sortie.
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mildave View Post
    As far as I know, Holland will keep the same trend with military expenditures that Sarkozy had, so I doubt we will see any major changes if he's elected.
    Second point how come France was able to fund all the F3-04T upgrades by cancelling 2 aircraft deliveries and with four countries the EFT isn't able to fund even half of that despite massive cancellation ?!

    EDIT: PS: Also the author seems to confirm some suspicions about Germany reluctance to upgrade the EFT in favour of the Tornados...
    While the article itself is discussing the situation in Europe as a whole and the French side is mentioned, most of the parts you marked in bolt and apparently discussed below the quote are related to the Typhoon. So why don't you post it in the appropriate thread?

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion82 View Post
    While the article itself is discussing the situation in Europe as a whole and the French side is mentioned, most of the parts you marked in bolt and apparently discussed below the quote are related to the Typhoon. So why don't you post it in the appropriate thread?
    Because it's part of Rafale news to discuss about related development and export potential as well as its place in Europe and I believe it's relevant to do so by having a glance at it most direct competitors in this case the EFT.

    In addition while I believe Robert Wall to be British, it seems anything that would be posted on the appropriate thread about EFT news would be seems as bashing or Anglophobe from me and I would like to spare the sensibilities and not offend some by giving them a choice, since the simple mention of Rafale is enough to get some angry, I'm sure they won't be paying too much attention at this thread.
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

  16. #436
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    well thats where you are wrong! Why not pop over to the Typhoon thread and look at Scorpions Gold dust he has uncovered....

    It doesn't match with the picture painted by yourself of the Germans turning their backs on Typhoon....

    And apologies to Rafale enthusiasts, I felt i had to come over here to get Mildave to take a look at the Typhoon forum. We have missed him of late

    Tmor. Thanks for your response. Those features listed by yourself are similar to Typhoon and date from the same time. I am curious to know if there is evidence of France researching RCS reduction before the 1980s? Also, Infrared reduction measures- are they surface treatments only or something more? I have heard mention of the engine having a lower infrared signature (but missed the detail of the discussion).

  17. #437
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    MilDave,

    You have again demonstrated your usual grasp of the truth, and have again highlighted your usual lack of basic knowledge. Robert Wall is of course an American citizen, as is apparent every time he pops up on TV or on webcasts.

    Moreover he is an extremely Francophile American, having lived in and reported from France for some years before his move to the UK.

    He himself isn't quite up to date either. Though the four partner nations have not yet allocated money to AESA they have given industry undertakings that they will do so, so the industry funding of AESA development is merely an interim arrangement.

    Also a UK Typhoon future capability roadmap is in place, just as it is in Germany, and the UK has committed to funding both Storm Shadow and Brimstone integration.

  18. #438
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    The Mirage 2000 and the later upgrade to the Mk2 standard already had RCS reduction in mind, although nowhere near the LO concept as far as I know.
    Using the concept of the delta wing interceptor seen on the Dassault Mirage III, Dassault built a new design but still using a delta wing. This configuration is not ideal with regard to maneuverability, low-altitude flight, and distance required for take-off and landing, but has advantages in high-speed flight characteristics, simplicity of construction, low radar signature and internal volume.
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
    MilDave,

    You have again demonstrated your usual grasp of the truth, and have again highlighted your usual lack of basic knowledge. Robert Wall is of course an American citizen, as is apparent every time he pops up on TV or on webcasts.

    Moreover he is an extremely Francophile American, having lived in and reported from France for some years before his move to the UK.
    Thank you for the precision, because I was not sure about his nationality I chose my word carefully. Now feel free to enlighten me about the substance of what have been said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
    He himself isn't quite up to date either. Though the four partner nations have not yet allocated money to AESA they have given industry undertakings that they will do so, so the industry funding of AESA development is merely an interim arrangement.
    Intent is the only things the four partner nations have been able to provide so far...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
    Also a UK Typhoon future capability roadmap is in place, just as it is in Germany, and the UK has committed to funding both Storm Shadow and Brimstone integration.
    As it is in Italy I'm sure.
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

  20. #440
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    The M88-2 also incorporates the latest advances to reduce its electromagnetic and infrared signature.
    M88-2 Rafale
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

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    Qualification of the basic Snecma M88-2 was completed in early 1996, with the first production engine delivered at the end of the same year.

    The M88-2 has a thrust-to-weight ratio of 8.5, producing 11,250/16,850lb of dry/afterburner thrust (50/75kN). The engine has proved extremely reliable in flight tests to-date, by early May building up 6,200 flight hours on the Rafale, giving a total of 16,400h, including test bench running. "It is now ready for entry into operational service," says Jean Massot, M88 general manager.

    Development took place under a fixed (unrevealed) price contract. The engine features state of the art technologies found also in its contemporaries, including single-crystal high-pressure turbine blades, powder metallurgy discs and full authority digital engine controls. Unrestricted operation throughout the flight envelope has been demonstrated, as has "extremely fast throttle response, low observability and multimission flexibility".

    Construction is based around 21 modules, interchangeable without the need for recalibration or balancing, along with a number of line replaceable units.

    Snecma is developing the M88-2 Stage 4, which has the same thrust as the standard M88-2, but incorporates improvements aimed at extending the service life of the engine and reducing fuel consumption, which Massot says "will also reduce operating costs significantly". Another benefit will be to improve the duration of the low-level penetration missions.

    The changes include the introduction of three-dimensional high-pressure (HP) compressor and turbine blades, blisks (one-piece blades and discs) improved thermal coatings on the HP turbine, and advanced cooling channels for the combustion chamber. The Stage 4 development will be ready in early 2001 and the modifications will be retrofitted to the M88-2. It will power the 48 Rafales ordered in the Government's multi-year procurement plan.

    A further development, the M88-3, rated at 9.5t thrust, still awaits funding, but has been benchtested on a privately funded demonstrator. "We are proposing the M88-3 to the French government for the future standard of the Rafale in the early 2000s and to prospective export customers", says Massot.

    The M88-3 features a new LP compressor with higher mass flow (from 65kg/s in the -2 to 73.4kg/s). A new variable stator vane stage has been introduced, permitting the engine to operate at optimum conditions through a much wider range, reducing part-power-specific fuel consumption and providing more operational flexibility to suit the Rafale's multimission role. The development comes out of Snecma's CENTOR LP compressor research programme and from other exploratory developments carried out by Snecma in recent years. Orders for the M88-2 stand at 42 engines, plus modules and spares, with a further order for 96 units (for the 48 Rafales) expected at the Paris air show.
    Snecma M88
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  22. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Apple View Post
    The SEER system made by the same company and using the same arangement (dual wide-band antenna per sector) is quoted as 10° RMS by its maker.

    http://www.selexgalileo.com/EN/Commo...ter_dsh298.pdf

    (one should notice that this "digital" RWR is quite similar to the proposed upgrade for Typhoon)

    Look, there are pictures of the system available on the internet.

    For example http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/B...%20Typhoon.jpg

    Notice the two spiral (wideband) antenna at the ends of each pod? These are the RWR antenna, just ask any sepcialist and I'm positive he'll confirm it.

    These are NOT interferometry arrays but "classic" pairs of antenna, an interferometry array requires at least four (but usually five) antennas deplayed in a planar configuration (in a cross although mathematically and dispotistion that isn't simply linear works).

    Unless the laws of physics have changed, fitting a TRX creates a significant blind spot. It also prevents the use of cross-eye jamming for that hemisphere.

    So it's not like TRD is a no-brainer, it has a significant impact on the plane ECM capabilities (lose some, win some, as always it's a compromise).

    Once again, look at the picture, there are no antenna arrays anywhere.

    Is it that hard to get? Don't you think the the Eurofighter consortium would communicate publicly on such a feature? Dassault did for the Mirage 2k and Rafale, Saab did it for the Gripen upgrades, Boeing for the F-18 Growler, Lockheed for the F-16 Blck60 and the F-35.

    The silence from EADS is deafening...

    By the time an IRST is able to give you a firing solution by tracking only, you're already at the merge (not that you were very far at the beginning given the range of an IRST).

    Reported by whom?

    Captor is a single, narrow-band, antenna, it's even worse than a dedicated RWR as far as positioning is concerned, this idea is just ridiculous.

    Invalid comparison. SPECTRA was designed by Thales which sub-contracted the chaff and flare dispensers to MBDA. Both ESM and ECM functions were designed by the same teams. The same company also designed the modular avionics that make the SIGINT/ELINT function possible.

    DASS ECM was designed in Italy and the ESM in the UK by different companies. And a third one did the avionics, one whose concept of sensor fusion is apparently limited to the elimination of duplicate tracks when displaying the tactical situation to the pilot (that didn't really impress the Swiss if we go by their evalution, sensor fusion was specifically quoted as a weak point).
    h
    The upgrade for DASS's ESM allows emisson detection below noise level and for the imrovement of the reseloution of signals to allow for targetting. This clearly shows that the DF accuracy is high enough for precise emitter location and with the improvement of reseloution further targeting.

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    Hi Mildave. What do those articles tell us about the infrared emissions of the M88?

    It all seems to be a bit vague. I'm no expert, but i do need it explaining.....

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    To my surprise, I see that I have written something on Rafale in the latest Air International.....

    The coverline reads:
    Rafale… Young, French & Good Looking - Is Dassault’s Fighter the World’s Most Wanted?

    The piece is headed:
    YEAR OF RAFALE?
    Could 2012 prove that the Dassault Rafale is the world's most wanted fighter?

  25. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmalaya View Post
    Hi Mildave. What do those articles tell us about the infrared emissions of the M88?

    It all seems to be a bit vague. I'm no expert, but i do need it explaining.....
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/dossier...gines-t33.html
    But the M88-2 is also a discreet engine : it uses the latest technological breakthroughs so as to reduce its RCS and mostly its IR signature. In most situation, the M88-2 doesn't even compromise the IR signature of the Rafale !
    Just like all my articles, sources are Air Fan/Air&Cosmos/Air-Actu, and other public documents.
    Rafale news blog by Kovy :
    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

    The Rafale international forum :
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/

  26. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
    To my surprise, I see that I have written something on Rafale in the latest Air International.....

    The coverline reads:
    Rafale… Young, French & Good Looking - Is Dassault’s Fighter the World’s Most Wanted?
    At first I thought there was an article about me, but it was about the Rafale
    "allah akbar": NATO's new warcry.

  27. #447
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    Mildave, please, stop talking about Typhoon here.


    Because it's part of Rafale news to discuss about related development and export potential as well as its place in Europe and I believe it's relevant to do so by having a glance at it most direct competitors in this case the EFT.
    I beg to differ.

    You know how difficult it is to keep a discussion on track even without mentioning competitors. We all are too touchy and while I would agree in the absolute, reality catches up each time.

    This is an internet forum, not a utopia.
    Last edited by TMor; 27th March 2012 at 18:08. Reason: it's "a utopia", not "an utopia, thank you Jackonicko
    Rafale news blog by Kovy :
    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

    The Rafale international forum :
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/

  28. #448
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    Nov 2004
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    2,344
    TMor,

    What on earth do you think the Indian politician was on about when he accused Rafale of having failed in precision bombing in Libya?

    It doesn't seem to have failed, by any normal standards, or according to any reasonable yardstick (nor even by the standards of the biggest Rafale sceptic ), but I can't even think what he must have misinterpreted to come to that conclusion.

    There have been questions about diversions to Malta, availability, etc., but not, as far as I know, precision bombing, though I have taken my eye off the French ball recently.

    We know or believe that the AdlA have looked at Sniper (supposedly through some small dissatisfaction with Damocles), but that's far from 'failure' in precision bombing, and whatever the issues with Damocles, it didn't stop the AdlA and Aeronavale from dropping 950 guided 'bombs' including an unspecified number (unless you know otherwise?) of laser guided bombs and 240 air-launched missiles (15 SCALP and 225 vanilla IN/GPS AASM Hammers).

    The majority of LGBs dropped by RAF aircraft during the Libyan op used GPS guidance (all or nearly all were dual mode weapons) or were said to have done so but I don't think that France has any Enhanced PWs, does it?

    There has been speculation that the apparently high proportion of GAINS guided attacks by Tornado/Typhoon actually camouflaged the use of friendly ground-based designation, is there a French perspective on that?

    The number of Scalps seems small compared to the RAF Tornado's Storm Shadow tally - no criticism intended, it's just an observation. Were they all from Rafale, or some from M2KD? If from Rafale, were all from the carrier based Rafales? Has there been a breakdown of weapons dropped just by Rafale, or better yet by AdlA and Aeronavale Rafales?

    And what of the Mirage 2000Ds and Super Etendards? What weapons did they use?

    Are you blokes still using any indigenous SAMP LGBs?

  29. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas10 View Post
    At first I thought there was an article about me, but it was about the Rafale
    One out of three, Nic. One out of three.

  30. #450
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    mrmalaya :
    What do those articles tell us about the infrared emissions of the M88?
    The M88 uses a cooling system somehow similar than the F-22 engine with a cool-air bypass surrounding the combustion chamber to hide the IR emissions and cool the flame exhaust :



    Similar than that :



    Cheers .
    I say what I mean and I do what I say .

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