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Thread: Mogas/Avgas alert

  1. #31
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    Always remember the Robin near Bristol, hit a hay bale taxying, looked at wing, couldn't see any damage so carried on, wing separated and he was killed. That is why the wing needs inspecting. Good to see you are pushing the media, would post on likes of UKGA etc, might be an idea to leaflet other aircraft on Airfield too. I would also leave a note on PA28 advising he gets it looked at BEFORE flying, you might just save his life..... Did anyone inform police, if you wait for the owner who might fly once in a blue moon, they have no chance of dealing with it.
    Last edited by TonyT; 20th January 2012 at 00:36.

  2. #32
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    Miserable, blustery day but, went to Scarum to meet photographer from Salisbury Journal in pursuit of the idea of max. publicity. The paper is a weekly and will appear next Thurs. complete with an appeal to the public who visit the airfield to be vigilant anf report anything they think is an unusual activity.

    Spoke to the airfield manger who gave a different version of the events leading to the a/c damage. It appears that Wiltshire's finest were, in their car, in hot pursuit of bandits also in a car. The bandits drove onto the airfield either narrowly missing or striking the PA28 wingtip. The PA28 then, unambiguously, received some more re-alignment attention from the following cop car! To top it all, the PA28 is owned by a retired Police inspector ! As Richard Littlejohn says "You couldn't make it up".

    The previous night, one of the two aircraft used for parachuting was separated from approximately 100 liters of Avgas.

    After talking to a few people and getting some opinions, most seem to think that lockable caps are not a good idea. The Scarum Scrotes will simply cause damage levering them off. There are now only eight or nine a/c on outside tiedowns so protection of the 'herd' is diminishing. We are looking at various re-locating options.


    John Green

  3. #33
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    Please excuse my ignorance, I did a quick wikipedia but didn't find the answer.
    Is this being stolen to sell on or for their own use or can avgas be used in automotive vehicles?
    Beejay

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeJay View Post
    Please excuse my ignorance, I did a quick wikipedia but didn't find the answer.
    Is this being stolen to sell on or for their own use or can avgas be used in automotive vehicles?
    Beejay
    Beejay, I don't know the answer either, and I doubt those stealing the fuel do, nor care less either - they'll presumably sell it on to anyone who wants some cheap "fuel" no questions asked etc.

    If your car/bike/mower/van runs a little rough then you're hardly likely to complain if you know the fuel you got cheap was off the back of a lorry (or more exactly out of the wing of an aeroplane) are you?

    And if they sell it on to a dodgy filling station, by the time a few gallons of any hydrocrabon fuel are added to a storage tank of pukka unleaded, leaded or even diesel, they will have little noticeable effect.

    Its like the barstewards who nick the railway signalling cables, they don't care that their actions could have serious (i.e. potentally fatal) consequences, nor really care what happens to the goods they have sold on afterwards, all they see is a few quid earned...

    A sad sign of the times....

    Having filled my distinctly "average" family car with fuel from near empty yesterday, and paid the forecourt a stinging £72 for the priviledge, I suddenly realise why tanks are being drained - I'd never really thought about it before, so I guess an avergae GA type holds a lot more "fuel" than my car, so its easy to do the maths and see why they are such an attractive target, esp if fuel drains or filler caps are not lockable. I'm just glad my car's filler cap is lockable and that it lives on my driveway with PIR-sensor spotlight covering it... I guess a dark airfield is an easier hunting ground, esp once it is known to be an easy target.

    Paul F
    Last edited by Paul F; 26th January 2012 at 17:48.

  5. #35
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    Google....honda-tech.com I think you will find a lot of answers to your question on their Forum. Far too many for me to post here, re Avgas for road vehicles.
    Jim.

    Lincoln .7
    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

  6. #36
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    There doesn't seem to be much selectivity going on. The a/c on outside tiedowns are a mix of certified and Permit a/c. Around 50% on Mogas and the balance on Avgas. We don't think that the thieves have the wit or sophistication to distinguish between fuels. Our guess is that they go for the easiest and most convenient - irrespective of fuel type.


    John Green

  7. #37
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    As has been said before Motion sensor lights, combined with random police patrols calling in throughout the night.
    Do they do patrols or only respond to calls now?
    It would be nice to catch them red handed but unless the place is staked out every night for a fortnight or three??
    They do it because they know their not going to be disturbed but if the risk of being seen is increased ie with MSlights, police calling in and even getting out of their vehicles "just to check around" at random times, might be enough to put them off.

    I do not know what neighbours there are but even farms would see a light that isn't normaly in that direction and could make a call to report it. Working on the theory that at dead of night lights can be seen from two three miles.
    I suppose I am thinking more of deterants rather than catching them read handed.
    Would the airfield have moneys put aside for maintenance? could not they use that to cover the cost of proving a suitable electric feed?
    Problem -not many neighbours would be looking at 2 or 3o'clock in the morning. These ideas have probably raced through your mind anyway but it's all I can submit at the moment.

  8. #38
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    BeeJay

    Thank you for those suggestions. It appears to be the case that the management have neither the will nor the modest amount of cash required to put in place even the most elementary of protections.

    John Green

  9. #39
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    Let me know if you decide to do a night time vigil. Happy to come down and help out.

  10. #40
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    Would worth investing in one of the motion sensor cameras on the market.
    lots use them for wild life at night etc, also good for things like this.

    Just put on the the cabin of the aircraft facing out to the fuel filler cap, or hide it away outside in some kind of makeshift hide.
    for just over £100 it could capture the culprits or car reg etc. link to some of the cameras on the market, they are lots more if you search the web.
    http://www.trail-camera.co.uk/wildlife/Trail-Camera.htm

  11. #41
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    #39

    ATR42

    Many thanks for that offer. I haven't been to Scarum for a week or so, so do not know the state of play with regard to further thefts. I'll be there this week and will report any changes.

    #40

    Vulcan 558

    Thank you for the link. Do you know if these motion sensor cameras are battery operated or, do they require an 240Ac supply ? I'm in the dark - so to speak, on these matters !


    John Green

  12. #42
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    Hi John

    Sorry to hear about you fuel thieves. .

    You say you are looking at relocating.

    Have you thouight about Wing Farm Near Warminster.

    Give me a Call on Zero7841 614577

    Regards
    Mark Jones
    Galaxy Microlights
    " If a Test pilot tells you something that's so bloody complicated you can't understand it, then its all Balls "

    R.J Mitchell

  13. #43
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    Many many moons ago when the management at Sywell introduced fence's and barriers to prevent un authorised access onto the Airfield they were berrated on some well known forums, coments of " Bl***y place you carnt get on and there are gates every where, etc etc 18 months ago when there was a spait of attempted break ins on the Airfield the main barriers were replaced with more secure gates that are on time locks and are coded for access out of working hrs, the CC TV camera's were also up graded, there are also regular security patrols. We can go home at night knowing that our property is a safe as it can be. Those that need access have the relevant code's and can come as go as they please. I guess those people that hurled abuse at the management on those forums are not laughing now as there A/C are plundered on other Airfields.
    I am very sorry for your problems and hope it gets sorted out, its not just the financial aspect but as others have said their is a big saftey issue as well. Good luck for a good out come.
    Last edited by The Blue Max; 1st February 2012 at 21:29.
    "I see something of the cobra in you Stachel!"

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  14. #44
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    Up at Sarum today. No fuel thefts reported recently. Our a/c checked and found ok. The Salisbury Journal did us quite proud, with a front page article describing the problem and asking for anyone who had any information to contact the local Police.

    Maybe, just maybe, this is the end of it. In the meantime, life goes on. Please, come and fly in. Sarum needs your business and you'll be made most welcome.

    John Green

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Green View Post
    #39

    ATR42

    Many thanks for that offer. I haven't been to Scarum for a week or so, so do not know the state of play with regard to further thefts. I'll be there this week and will report any changes.

    #40

    Vulcan 558

    Thank you for the link. Do you know if these motion sensor cameras are battery operated or, do they require an 240Ac supply ? I'm in the dark - so to speak, on these matters !


    John Green
    Certain they run on just a handful of batteries that last 2-3 months

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Green View Post
    Up at Sarum today. No fuel thefts reported recently. Our a/c checked and found ok. The Salisbury Journal did us quite proud, with a front page article describing the problem and asking for anyone who had any information to contact the local Police.

    Maybe, just maybe, this is the end of it. In the meantime, life goes on. Please, come and fly in. Sarum needs your business and you'll be made most welcome.

    John Green
    Weather permitting. Vintage Aircraft Club fly-in due at Old Sarum next Sunday (12th). Even if its just drive-in conditions, I am sure there'll be quite a few of us enjoying the tea and cakes!

    Steve Slater

  17. #47
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    John G.
    John, I have seen the results of motion sensor cameras, on a wildlife forum I am on, and in the open they give good results for animals etc. However, if you place on on an aircraft, you will need "Flash" and may even get flash bounce from the canopy. Even if you were able to get a picture, I bet the Police , even if they recognise the culprits, would say they are not of sufficiently good quality to prosecute the culprits.
    I have seen, (It happened to my wifes car on 4th Dec last, in Tescos car park) A tesco lorry hit the car because the driver misjudged his turning point.
    It was caught VERY clearly on Tescos CCTV, I watched it myself in the stores CCTV monitoring room. The Police attended and stated the quality was not good enough to put forward for prosecution. I did their work for them, and won my case plus compensation for my wife.
    I think one should give a motion camera a go, get in touch with one of the makers, explane the trouble, and ask them for a demo on the offchance should it work out O.K. they may have a number of sales from other owners.
    Just a thought of what I would do, these days, it's only the speeding motorist the Coppers are interested in.
    Jim.

    Lincoln .7
    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

  18. #48
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    #47

    Lincoln 7

    Jim, many thanks for your thoughts - specially relevant given your 'day job' ! I was at Scarum today. All is quiet at the moment. The Police are more of a visible presence and that plus the publicity gained via the local newspaper means that life ain't so easy for the bandits.

    If it kicks off yet again, we'll go the motion sensor camera route with, hopefully, some financial assistance from the airfield administration. We're going ahead with some moderately expensive improvements to the a/c at the moment - having just spent £500 on a new cover - so we are watching the pennies.

    John Green

  19. #49
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    J.G.

    Finges crossed then John, Good job they are that thick they can't Pilot an aircraft otherwise TSWHTF.
    Jim.

    Lincoln .7
    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

  20. #50
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    I bet the reason the police are about more is the article makes them look like a bunch of..... Hope it has seen them off, older cars that haven't got a cat and were designed to run on leaded petrol would be ok on the stuff. I ran my MR2 on a track day on it, it was like putting 5 star in it and you noticed the difference in power..... Oh and before you ask, no the fuel wasn't stolen.

  21. #51
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    Bit of a result - so far ! Just had a call from a Wilts. PC in charge of the investigation into the fuel thefts from Scarum. Someone is under arrest and, I believe, awaiting charge.

    My comments regarding public safety has resulted in an increased Police presence around the airfield. Since I reported the last one, there have not been any more thefts. That's probably made me a 'hostage to fortune' !

    Again, thank you to all who have offered commiserations and support.

    John Green

  22. #52
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    JG. Hi John, great news, but try and not get too complacent, slime like this rarely go by themselves on a mission in my experience. Lets hope under interview, he grasses some other/s up.
    Jim.

    Lincoln .7
    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

  23. #53
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    Cool, the fact one has been nailed will hopefully scare the rest into realising the easy touch has gone, if there is indeed more than one of them.

  24. #54
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    Tomy T/ Yes one would certainly hope there may have been only one..but you guys who had it stolen won't need me to tell you to still dip your tanks, prior to T/O.
    Jim.
    Lincoln .7
    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

  25. #55
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    Hi John, Your news is better than I expected. I will keep an eye for updates on the outcome?
    Regards
    Beejay.

  26. #56
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    Glad to hear some good news at last. I wonder if as well as theft they can make out a charge of endangering the safety of an aircraft? Bit vague considering the checks I'm sure you make before flight but maybe worth asking the question.

  27. #57
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    It looks as though some of you were right. The problem hasn't gone away. I was at Scarum to-day. As I drove onto the airfield, I saw a 'scenes of crime' police van parked. It transpired that round the back and therefore out of sight, windows had been smashed to gain entry to the parachute school office which forms part of the main building. I don't know the scale of the theft or what was stolen.

    As far as I know, no fuel has been nicked. This of course, won't be known until the pilot or owner turns up to fly the a/c. Then if they do not check..........? It might be the case, that some pilots or owners might be unaware of what's been going on.

    What was that about fiddling while Rome burns ?


    John Green

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Green View Post
    Bit of a result - so far ! Just had a call from a Wilts. PC in charge of the investigation into the fuel thefts from Scarum. Someone is under arrest and, I believe, awaiting charge.

    John Green
    Translated means bailed to appear at a future date if the Criminal Protection Service don't drop it or he,she or it does not just get a Police Caution!

    I hope a positive outcome is reached in this matter. I bloody hate thieves!!!

  29. #59
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    my workshop is linked via a mobile phone + motion sensor to tell me is anyone has got into my shed, its set up to ring the person i personaly know who`s nearest that has agreed to have their phone on. never had it used in anger yet and never hope it happens.
    www.restorebike.co.uk
    www.ezraysnet.co.uk/bhaa
    (aviation archaeology)

    ITS NOT HOW BIG YOUR LENSE IS, ITS WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH IT THAT COUNTS

  30. #60
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    Much as some contributors forecasted, especially Lincoln 7, we've heard that the CPS has declined to prosecute in the case of the solitary villain caught trashing Scarum airfield.

    We're further told that there was never any prospect of the scum being 'done' for stealing fuel. Most of this info has come thru the 'grapevine' none, from official sources.

    We haven't even heard that universal sop to public outrage: " We're working hard to put in places measures to ensure that such n' such can never again happen" Blah, Blah etc.


    John Green

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