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Thread: AT-6 Kicked out! Souper Toucan only contendor left for US!

  1. #1
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    AT-6 Kicked out! Souper Toucan only contendor left for US!


  2. #2
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    Let's hope they cancel the entire silly LAS program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djcross View Post
    Let's hope they cancel the entire silly LAS program.
    That would be far too sensible.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by djcross View Post
    Let's hope they cancel the entire silly LAS program.
    Mr. Double J Cross,
    what would you cut and what would you save in this time of crisis for the US?

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    If the program survives, I hope they do indeed go with the Tucano as I think it's a better, more proven aircraft for this requirement.

    Just my two cents...
    Fox-4!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomII View Post
    If the program survives, I hope they do indeed go with the Tucano as I think it's a better, more proven aircraft for this requirement.

    Just my two cents...
    i think Toucan is more proven.. but is it better?
    i wonder what the potential of the Pilatus PC-21 would be as an armed aircraft

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    One thing I wish they could do would be to switch the wing mounted guns from the AN/M-3 12.7mm/.50cal to something more like the GIAT M621 20mm cannon. Obviously the 20mm would be a bit bigger, but it would be a very useful change - a fair bit more punch, and more standoff range for strafing runs. As it is, you can only carry the 20mm cannon on the centreline without the FLIR, or so I was told in a previous discussion of the ALX.

    Ideally, I would love to see an optionally piloted version of the OV-10X Bronco, it would make a brilliant UCAV/COIN aircraft! The ability to carry either a 20mm M197 cannon or M230 30mm cannon on the centreline, which can be slewed to targets. Add to that the ability to carry a good warload, and proven ruggedness. Imagine having the ability to have a UAV/UCAV flying overhead, able to effectively do a strafing run, without having to carefully manoeuvre into position first. Add to this, the ability to airdrop small loads from the cargo space in the rear (or just carry extra fuel of course), enabling you to drop medical supplies or ammunition to units using something like the Copterbox...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdLaw View Post
    Ideally, I would love to see an optionally piloted version of the OV-10X Bronco, it would make a brilliant UCAV/COIN aircraft! The ability to carry either a 20mm M197 cannon or M230 30mm cannon on the centreline, which can be slewed to targets. Add to that the ability to carry a good warload, and proven ruggedness. Imagine having the ability to have a UAV/UCAV flying overhead, able to effectively do a strafing run, without having to carefully manoeuvre into position first. Add to this, the ability to airdrop small loads from the cargo space in the rear (or just carry extra fuel of course), enabling you to drop medical supplies or ammunition to units using something like the Copterbox...
    I might be little late on this, Why OV-10X project can't get attention from US ? OV-10 is much proven COIN than Super Tucano. Potential of OV-10X will be very interesting for capabilities which seems back in demand on the market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ananda View Post
    I might be little late on this, Why OV-10X project can't get attention from US ? OV-10 is much proven COIN than Super Tucano. Potential of OV-10X will be very interesting for capabilities which seems back in demand on the market.
    I agree, it does boast a proven track record, can carry more, and was effectively designed from the ground up as a combat aircraft; whereas even the ALX was evolved from a training aircraft. Another potentially useful advantage of the OV-10's design would be the sponson mounted guns - it may be possible to mount the Rheinmetall RMK-30 recoilless 30mm cannon. This would actually be a sort of return to the original OV-10 concept - which envisioned using recoilless guns, before this switched to conventional guns.

    The RMK-30 packs a massive punch, firing more powerful rounds than even the A-10's gun (obviously at a lower rate of fire), and yet would be a viable for aircraft mounting due to its recoilless nature. Add to this the ability to fire large airbursting 30mm rounds, and you have a sort of mini A-10, at a fraction of the cost!

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    Has this something to do with the Brazil fighter competition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-20 Hotdog View Post
    i think Toucan is more proven.. but is it better?
    i wonder what the potential of the Pilatus PC-21 would be as an armed aircraft
    It is less about the better aircraft and more about the most cost-effective solution in a asymmetrical warfare. For a "Pizza-service" the cheapest car will do. The driver in duty will prefer a Mercedes when the related cost is not his business. Most military are not ashamed to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ananda View Post
    I might be little late on this, Why OV-10X project can't get attention from US ? OV-10 is much proven COIN than Super Tucano. Potential of OV-10X will be very interesting for capabilities which seems back in demand on the market.
    OV-10 was proven 40 years ago, but the OV-10X is heavily modified. The avionics are completely new, for example. Under the skin, there'll have to be very many other changes.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
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    I hope they win and find out what political BS was working in the background.

    My bet, the Big "O" was trying to buy favor in Brazil in order to get a better chance of teh F-18 winning its bid.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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    Anybody surprised? Anybody believed that the USAF generals were eager to get a fleet of slow moving prop aircraft as combat aircraft?

    So can you imagine a better way to scrap the program, than having it end in a legal fight? Best way to end it without pissing off the army and SF guys.
    Member of ACIG

    an unnamed Luftwaffe officer:"Typhoon is a warm weather plane. If you want to be operational at -20°C you have to deploy the F-4F."

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    As much as I love the idea of a new OV10, I'm afraid that boeing would make it as costly as a new build F16 in the end. I think US companies just can't make simple cheap products to save their lives.

    Nic
    "allah akbar": NATO's new warcry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-20 Hotdog View Post
    15 plus (maybe) 20 aircraft? I thought the plan was to buy hundreds of em? Or has the US MoD sobered up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffon39 View Post
    15 plus (maybe) 20 aircraft? I thought the plan was to buy hundreds of em? Or has the US MoD sobered up?
    maybe on a single fleet buy - but there are over 60 aircraft currently in service across various alphabet agencies already. so the requirement is still there for some of those agencies.

    I was under the impression that the tucano was the preferred buy anyway, the SEALS have had 2 in "evaluation" for a number of years.
    Last edited by gf0012-aust; 31st December 2011 at 00:06.

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    Its official, Embraer just released that the Super Tucano was choosed by the Usaf for the LAS programm

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    Sweet! Awsome little ******. And the guys over at Tank Net will go balistic in anger...

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    The US has promised 6 to 10 for Lebanon as well with 2013 deliveries. However, the "promise" is much dependent on politics in the region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireman Sam View Post
    Its official, Embraer just released that the Super Tucano was choosed by the Usaf for the LAS programm
    Official press release here:

    http://www.embraer.com/pt-BR/Imprens...A-NOS-EUA.aspx

    Congratulations for Embraer.

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    AFM update on what has happened so far:

    http://www.key.aero/view_news.asp?ID...ction=military

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    Can't say I'm surprised. While I agreed with the choice of aircraft, I suspected all along the whole thing would get canned...

    I could be wrong but I think this is the end of the line for this program.

    The longer I'm in, the more embarrassed I am by the inability of people at high levels to make procurement decisions in a timely manner. That combined with the immediate inclination for losing companies to immediately sue just makes me sick to my stomach when thinking about this stuff.

    Lawyers and politics just destroy acquisition programs.

    It's certainly not specific to the U.S. but right now we are leading the way in this area....
    Fox-4!

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    Actually corruption is ruining acquisition programs. Had the choice been transparent there would have been no cancellation...
    “Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!”

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomII View Post

    Lawyers and politics just destroy acquisition programs.

    It's certainly not specific to the U.S. but right now we are leading the way in this area....
    Oh, I don't know about that. We had at least one Nimrod MRA.4 finished and several others almost finished when the govt decided to have them cut up for scrap.
    "Quicquid agas age"

  30. #30
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    You have to suspect a fox in the henhouse when the stories read like this. Why doesnt the HoL call an inquiry over these counterproductive decisions that pertain to national security?
    Go Huskers!

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