Supermarine Swift on E-bay

[Dr. John Smith]

I think you are being a little 'tight'....with a reasonable cockpit from a Hunter being at least £3k....and a Bucc cockpit around £4k, Lightning 6k.....I think its value is around £10-12k

Tony - this Swift has been, to its owners, little more than an interesting and unusual advertising hoarding for their business. It had stood out in all weathers, totally neglected, for over 40 years.

For what it has been used as since the early 1970s, they could just as well have used a tank or a combine harvester!

If the aircraft were a less rare type (say, a Hawker Hunter or a Jet Provost) we would not be having this conversation. As a case in point, Hunter T7 XL623 is currently mounted on a pole in the middle of Woking town centre - but no-one thinks it is worth £50,000, or is setting up a preservation group for it.

As has been posted upthread, this Swift needs £50,000 spent on it - but that would be £5,000 to buy it, and £45,000 to dismantle, transport, and restore it.

The more we talk about it, the more its owner will think it is made of solid gold, instead of crumbling aluminium...

[Bruggen 130]

I think as there are only five complete airframe's left then yes it's got to be worth saving at the right price of course.

pagen01

(This airframe is the only complete reminder of the pure fighter type Swift which was from that righ risk era when both aircraft companies and the services were grappling with high-speed aeronautics, the type provided the first RAF experience of Swept-wings, reheat, and all flying tails,)

Are you sure about that I always thought that honour went to the F-86,
I didn't think the RAF ever used the reheat version and I dont think it had an all flying tail either, but I'm probably wrong again

Can anybody ID the serial of this aircraft, pic was taken at Finningley.

[J31/32]

Looks like WK281 on the rear fuse under the horizontal stab.

[Jon H]

Can anybody ID the serial of this aircraft, pic was taken at Finningley.

Says WK281 on the tail

EDIT - wot he said above

Jon

[Bruggen 130]

Looks like WK281 on the rear fuse under the horizontal stab.

I think I need specsavers

[xtangomike]

I think I need specsavers

Me too...jeez J31/32..you must have X ray eyes !!!!!!!!

[pagen01]

Bruggen you might be right with the specifics of the F-86 (I'm in no position to check at the mo), but I was possibly generalising a bit in that sentance.
The Swift was certainly the first to embody swept-wings, reheat, and the flying tail all in one design for the RAF, I think the F.4 was the first variant to bring all of these features in one airframe into service, all be it in a restricted operational manner (not that unusual in those days!).
It did pave the way for successful service of the FR.5, not to mention give the RAF some experience of operating aircraft with these innovations.
At the very least it was the first British fighter to combine these ideas, and this F.4 is the last remaing example of it.

Cracking shot of WK281

[Thunderbird167]

This Swift has been, to its owners, little more than an interesting and unusual advertising hoarding for their business. It had stood out in all weathers, totally neglected, for over 40 years.

The more we talk about it, the more its owner will think it is made of solid gold, instead of crumbling aluminium...

Unfortunately its value is clouded by the disposal of the previous family owned Spitfire. Which was sold on for a considerable profit.

There have been many potential offers for the aircraft over the years hence the perception that it is valuable

[Bruggen 130]

Bruggen you might be right with the specifics of the F-86 (I'm in no position to check at the mo), but I was possibly generalising a bit in that sentance.
The Swift was certainly the first to embody swept-wings, reheat, and the flying tail all in one design for the RAF, I think the F.4 was the first variant to bring all of these features in one airframe into service, all be it in a restricted operational manner (not that unusual in those days!).
It did pave the way for successful service of the FR.5, not to mention give the RAF some experience of operating aircraft with these innovations.
At the very least it was the first British fighter to combine these ideas, and this F.4 is the last remaing example of it.

Cracking shot of WK281

Sorry but I don't think the F.4 were flown by the RAF, the F.5 had all those things, but the F-86 was the RAFs first swept wing all flying tail
aircraft, as for the pic thanks, I've had that neg 30 odd years and never knew
the serial

[pagen01]

As has been posted upthread, this Swift needs £50,000 spent on it - but that would be £5,000 to buy it, and £45,000 to dismantle, transport, and restore it.

£45K for a static restoration, really?

Bruggen, I think I'm struggling with the words.
The Swift was the first aircraft designed by a British manufacturer to an RAF requirement with the features of swept-wings, reheat,and the flying tail, the last two features being added through the Mks.
This F.4 is the only complete example in existance as a reminder to the trials and tribulations of the whole Swift F.1 - 4 pure interceptor line.

I realise that as a fighter for the RAF the service career was abysmal and seems to have mostly consisted of trials and evaluation use (which I thought that the F.4 was used for-but could be wrong), but not withstanding I think as an example of a type from an era when problems with swept-wing aerodynamics and high speeds were still a struggle for the aircraft companies to solve with and the services to live with routinely. Just from that point of view the aircraft is worth struggling to preserve - I think.

I'm afraid that's the most robust case I can make for it
Anyway it was Supermairnes' last pure fighter for the RAF from a long and illustrious list, such as the Spitfire and the, um...

[WJ244]

Unfortunately its value is clouded by the disposal of the previous family owned Spitfire. Which was sold on for a considerable profit.

I think the above hits the nail on the head but there was a time in the 60's and possibly early 70's when there was little or no interest in rebuilding Spitfires to fly and at that time they weren't worth massive money.
Once the RAF decided to dispose of all their gate guards there was a cache of Spitfires to restore and it became viable to remanufacture a lot of parts neeeded to make them airworthy. At the same time it also seemed that almost as many potential owners appeared with the means to restore and operate a Spitfire as there were potentially airworthy rebuild projects so values climbed quickly hence the ability to move the family's Spitfire on for a quick but substantial profit. It doesn't make what happened right but it does emphasise that the profit came from being in the right place at the right time with the right airframe to sell.
Unfortunately a Swift is not a viable project to rebuild to fly and the only recent attempt failed for various reasons including the unexpected death of the owner. Shortage of parts and the specialist expertise for an airworthy rebuild of a single example would make the cost prohibitive. Couple this with the difficulties of finding and maintaining an engine and the demanding flight characteristics which may mean that the CAA may not be prepared to issue a C of A mean the Swift is and always will be worth a great deal less than even a complete basket case Spitfire.
I can understand the owners wish to ensure that they are not ripped off (again) but they need to take a hefty dose of realism and understand that just because they both happen to have a pair of wings a Swift and a Spitfire do not share a common cash value.
I sincerely hope that common sense prevails and that the Swift can be rescued and restored with the family receiving a fair and realistic price for the airframe but sadly I think they will continue to hold out for an unrealistic price and eventually it will either disintegrate or they will scrap it in a fit of pique and there will be no winners.

[Bruggen 130]

£45K for a static restoration, really?

Just from that point of view the aircraft is worth struggling to preserve - I think.

Seeing as there are only five of the type left I agree

[forester]

I can understand the desire to talk the price down if you're a potential purchaser, but assigning a value of £5000 is a bit silly.

The Swift is worth what someone is prepared to pay. It is an interesting historic aircraft. 50k is small beer to many in the game.

If the aim is to save it complete, which it should be, it might be better to talk both the aircraft and the price up so that a purchaser feels it worth spending time and money on it - which it most definitely is.

[WJ244]

In terms of airworthy vintage aircraft 50k is small beer BUT airworthy aircraft tend to appreciate in value if well maintained and we are talking about an aircraft which has no prospect of being flown. I am extremely sceptical that there is anyone out there willing to lay out 50k for a neglected static example of a jet which is hardly an icon to the average member of the public.
True it is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and in the present economic climate I doubt anyone will want to lay out anything close to 50k particularly with a large transport bill and significant restoration costs to make her presentable again. I also have my doubts that static airframes appreciate greatly in value and I would be very surprised if this one could be sold on after restoration for anything near the restoration costs.
My own opinion is that she isn't worth a great deal more than scrap value although I am not sure exactly what she would realise as scrap. Others here who are far more knowledgable about values than me have said maybe £10 to £12,000 is a fair price which seems quite reasonable to me.
I have a car to restore which when finished will, if I am lucky, be worth around the cost of restoration but I took it on because I really wanted the car and the chances of getting another are slim. If the Swift does find a new owner it is likely to be one with the same outlook - sufficient love for the aeroplane to plough money into it which may prove impossible to recover in the forseeable future.
We don't need to talk up the project as I am sure that there are already people out there who would consider taking her if the selling price was realistic.

[Wyvernfan]

"The item is no longer available". I wonder if its sold or just removed from ebay.

[J Boyle]

Too bad. An American museum...eithe the National Museun of the US Air Force or the Air & Space Museum should have bought it since it was developed in part, with US funds.

Seems like one should be in the US to remind American taxpayers of a largely untold story.

[carmedic]

Swift F Mk.4 WK275 has been reported as seen on a low loader heading Northbound on the M6 between J18 (Holmes Chapel) and J19 (Knutsford) on Saturday 17th March at approximately 1:00pm.
Does anyone know its destination?

[Growler]

Possibly very good news. I'd be interested to know how easily she came apart.

[Propstrike]

Swift F Mk.4 WK275 has been reported as seen on a low loader heading Northbound on the M6 between J18 (Holmes Chapel) and J19 (Knutsford) on Saturday 17th March at approximately 1:00pm.
Does anyone know its destination?

Cape Wrath bombing range :diablo:

[Plazz]

I took a detour past Sheppard’s on my way to work this morning and the Swift has definitely gone!

[curlyboy]

I hope she has gone to a good home.

Now i need to re-evaluate my restoration list when i win the lottery

curlyboy

[Delta Golf]

I understand it's now at a site in North Yorkshire

Dave

[Dr. John Smith]

I understand it's now at a site in North Yorkshire

Dave

Hmm..if that is the case, then there a company called Jet Art Aviation; they seem to buy ex-military aircraft, tart them up and them sell them on for outrageous prices on E-bay.

They're based in North Yorkshire, by the way...so the combination of the words "e-bay" and "North Yorkshire" may not be just a coincidence!

I've checked the website, no mention of any Supermarine Swifts yet (although they do have a pair of Tonkas for sale - see http://www.jetartaviation.co.uk/what-we-do/aircraft/. Seems to be F.3 ZE256 and a GR.4 with a "ZA" serial. The website shows GR.1 ZA558, but that one crashed 28/10/1983...)

If I am correct, then the Swift will turn up on e-bay in a year or so, cosmetically restored, and with a £75,000 price tag...

[Bruce]

Dr John,

I think you may be jumping to conclusions. Time will tell!

I would however invite you to price up the restoration of any aircraft to display condition, at commercial rates, and then to reconsider your comment of 'outrageous prices'. Chris is a competitor of mine, but I dont think I could be brave enough to try and sell cosmetically restored aircraft as he does - with some success I might add....



Bruce

[David Burke]

Geographically speaking I believe Jet Art to be located in the untamed wilds of the Selby locale! Definately not 'North Yorkshire' as I am sure the indigenous population would delight in telling you!

[mantog]

Hmm..if that is the case, then there a company called Jet Art Aviation; they seem to buy ex-military aircraft, tart them up and them sell them on for outrageous prices on E-bay.

They're based in North Yorkshire, by the way...so the combination of the words "e-bay" and "North Yorkshire" may not be just a coincidence!

I've checked the website, no mention of any Supermarine Swifts yet (although they do have a pair of Tonkas for sale - see http://www.jetartaviation.co.uk/what-we-do/aircraft/. Seems to be F.3 ZE256 and a GR.4 with a "ZA" serial. The website shows GR.1 ZA558, but that one crashed 28/10/1983...)

If I am correct, then the Swift will turn up on e-bay in a year or so, cosmetically restored, and with a £75,000 price tag...

[Firebex]

we are definately in North Yorkshire and it aint us guy honest !!!!! and I dont thinks its Elvington ??.

Mike E

[Firebex]

Geographically speaking I believe Jet Art to be located in the untamed wilds of the Selby locale! Definately not 'North Yorkshire' as I am sure the indigenous population would delight in telling you!

It is very border line on our border and we are having customs look into it.It may actually come under York and that as far as we are concerned is not really anywhere but North Yorkshire. But our friend who lives in Selby area not far from a certain location their post code and address states very clearly NORTH YORKSHIRE so there is your answer !!!

[David Burke]

Shocking! Just looking at the map and clearly its North Yorkshire !

[JT442]

Firebex, you are a very naughty boy!