Seen On Ebay Thread (August 2011)

[pagen01]

My thoughts aswel XF940.
There have been various whole (but tatty!) Hunters for sale with seemingly poor uptake.

Baz, maybe you should have spoke to the seller a few weeks ago, he may have gone a bit further with the saw to ensure indoors delivery and display!

[Firebex]

You're changing the goal posts somewhat, as this was a fairly tatty outside stored airframe then it doesn't come under those.
Sorry but without my rosiest of glasses on there are plenty of Hunters about, both indoors and in flying condition - essentially the best condition Hunters there are.

Is there a reasonably sized UK museum that needs an extra Hunter indoors?

It depends on your definition of reasonable ? I could think of two or three fair sized collections that are at present outdoors that would love a complete if tatty Hunter (some with significant airframes they are trying to preserve). Today's museum in a field could be the next Hendon in 5 or 10 years time !!!!. To consign a full airframe to the junk yard because its tatty or there are a few about isn't that what happened to a lot of airframes in the past that are now virtually extinct??. Oh we don't need to preserve one of those we have plenty !!!!!! Airworthy aircraft have a habit of changing owners and hence homes and even countries look at how many Hunters,Gnats etc,etc are now in the US ?.
Look what happened to the lightning ? I know a few are in museums but there must be nearly as many in South Africa and the USA in Bits and complete airframes in storage.

So in the future if we haven't got one left in the UK are you advocating we all jump on a trans Atlantic flight or dash through the channel tunnel to see an example at an airport or in the museum of a foreign country ???. If we have so many of a certain type are museums going to start to review their aircraft stock and on the basis of there are plenty about so we shall scrap the one we have it wont matter ??.

That is why dear boy ourselves and many others are working on projects to bring back from extinction aircraft we should never have lost to start with !!!!

I think if you start advocating well we don't need to save another one of those because there are probably to many around you risk starting a very slippery slope. Look at airframes that have been lost in the some 40 odd years I have been involved with aircraft and preservation and restoration the collections that have folded up because of lack of support and some airframes that where written off and no longer exist or might well as because of there current status and lack of foresight or narrow minded policy ??.

We need to look very carefully at any and all airframes that come up for possible disposal from microlights and gliders to light aircraft as well as historic and vintage stuff even current RAF types in the process of demob and are currently in store.There will be few Harriers because of the Government policy and sale to the USMC for spares.The Tornado fleet going under the guillotine and the jaguars that have been stored for a long time destined to follow the same route. Gladly a number of Nimrods have been saved but not many VC 10 and other types. The larger aircraft surviving today from the 50's and 60's are there because of private individuals in a lot of cases and their dedication I am thinking of aircraft like the Victor and the Vulcan and the teams keeping them alive look how many of those aircraft should and could be around today ??.

Sorry not having a dig expressing a personal opinion.

Enough said I think

Mike E

www.whirlwindfighterproject.org


Sorry moderators for my rant if you think we need a "Rant and Rave Corner" fine I don't mind being Ranter number 1

[pagen01]

So (dear boy) after all that, why haven't you purchased some of the complete examples that have appeared for sale before now? I seem to remember one of the Kemble T.7s languishing for sale for ages.
Believe me I'm all for restoring lost causes, and there have been some fantastic examples here (JonH s Vampire) but the Hunter isn't by any measure scarce, In fact it could be argued that all the mass types that were in various museums in the recent past became scarcer because there were too many about.

BTW I don't give a flying fig if an aircraft is indoors or out, I was responding to DBs point about being indoors.

Subject for another thread maybe.

[David Burke]

I dont think I have changed the goal posts at all. In my first post it clearly mentioned examples in good condition. This Hunter (the GA.11) was probably in far better condition than a lot of the airframes that have been in preservation since the late 1970's - I am not advocating saving every Hunter -what I am saying is that there would be a lot of sense in saving the good machines and letting the lesser examples become cockpits i.e many of the Danish examples.

[pagen01]

But how would this seller have the choice of separating a cockpit of a 'less desirable' version?
This is their airframe, and they obviously deemed it better to break the airframe and sell the cockpit, you never know the other bits may have even gone to help another Hunter.

One thing that troubles me with this EBay thread is that we like to sit on judgement on other peoples decisions and practices.

[Firebex]

So (dear boy) after all that, why haven't you purchased some of the complete examples that have appeared for sale before now? I seem to remember one of the Kemble T.7s languishing for sale for ages.
Believe me I'm all for restoring lost causes, and there have been some fantastic examples here (JonH s Vampire) but the Hunter isn't by any measure scarce, In fact it could be argued that all the mass types that were in various museums in the recent past became scarcer because there were too many about.

BTW I don't give a flying fig if an aircraft is indoors or out, I was responding to DBs point about being indoors.

Subject for another thread maybe.

You can only purchase so much at one time personally and as I am sure a number of folks already know a good number of airframes that no one wanted in the UK are now in a couple of museums overseas arranged by myself and a couple of others on this forum to save being chopped up because of the well there are to many anyway syndrome !!!. I know I have countered my argument previously but in the case of these particular airframes no one had the will or the funds to do anything for them we could not get them saved in the UK but they are saved and in one piece.I am sure in future years they could be some of the very few of type still in existence

[pagen01]

And I applaud people like yourself for doing so, probably doing this work for very little reward, but I don't think we can criticise one seller for separating an aircraft, especially if we aren't in a position to buy it whole - that was my point in the first place, the cockpit will be a more attractive proposition to more people, ie increasing the sellers chances of sale.
Just my two penneth

[David Burke]

Kind of a double edged sword ! The people who want a complete aircraft are deprived of the chance whilst the cockpit collectors have a chance! I cannot see how we can quantify whether a cockpit is more desirable then a complete machine when I have seen both go to widely diverse uses.

Regards the advert if you advertise what you have done - It's in the public domain in exactly the same way as a paint error at Duxford or a 'new' Spitfire appearing on the register -open to discussion.

[pagen01]

Surely there are more people about with the physical ability to buy, pick up, and keep a cockpit than a complete aircraft?
If I had the funds I could buy the cockpit tomorrow, I couldn't entertain buying a complete airframe at all, even if I had the cash - I would think that would go for many other people, isn't that what the rise in cockpit ownership is based on?

As I said earlier the complete T.7 seemed to have languished for ages, and was reasonably priced.

I like to see complete aircraft and cockpits preserved, so just trying to see this through practical eyes.

[ozjag]

-I am inclined to think that offered to an art gallery to hang in a polished state

That is a good idea, look how well that turned out for the poor Jag.

I have to admit that I have personally been responsible for the destruction of 2 airframes with only the cockpits surviving. Why? Although I would have loved to keep the entire aircraft it was just going to be cost prohibitive to disassemble, transport, reassemble and house appropriately. In the end the cockpits are very well looked after and enjoyed by many people.

Paul

[Jack Ruskin]

Two Lancaster / Lincoln Steering wheels - Tillers


.

[ian_]

An A26 wheel here, and a very nice F102 yoke. Would like one but don't think it will be cheap.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2209105995...#ht_510wt_1185

[smirky]

One of them looks right, don't know what the other one is

[LW206]

One of them looks right, don't know what the other one is

Dakota or Hudson?

The Lanc type one has the later covering so more likely Lincoln i think?

[Dr. John Smith]

FORTY GRAND for an ejector seat? No, I'm not making this up: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LOCKHEED-S...#ht_3457wt_295

with further pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/5946836...7626562810988/

[Firebex]

I wonder how many zero's the offers removed off the end of the asking price.

[FLY.BUY]

The other wheel next to the Lincoln is a C54

[spitfireman]

FORTY GRAND for an ejector seat? [/url]

I guess its quite rare

[Graham Adlam]

I am pretty sure its the one that used to belong to me and you are right Baz it is very rare, I think less than 20 were ever made. Its increased in value somewhat though I think I sold it for £1200, its been restored though.

[Discendo Duces]

Stirling fans may like one of the articles in this wartime American magazine; possibly something for Whirlwind fans too.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...E:B:SS:GB:1123

DD

[ian_]

SR71 stuff is pretty rare, he's got quite a price on a little bit of panel.
More bits from dave the plumber. Next to the F86 throttle looks a lot like a reflector sight bulb holder. He's being very open about his openness to offers!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AIRCRAFT-M...#ht_500wt_1202

[ian_]

Not ebay, but of similar eye watering expense. Polished Vulcan seat:
http://www.rauantiques.com/item/Vulc...t.29-5458.html

[pagen01]

I am pretty sure its the one that used to belong to me and you are right Baz it is very rare, I think less than 20 were ever made.

Over thirty SR-71s were built (not including the eighteen YF-12/A-12/M-21 family), so that's sixty + seats before taking into consideration spare seats etc.
Or did the seat type change through the types service?

[N.Wotherspoon]

Not ebay, but of similar eye watering expense. Polished Vulcan seat:
http://www.rauantiques.com/item/Vulc...t.29-5458.html

Now that's some serious polishing!!!! However, isn't that the barometric firing device still in situ - thought these were always removed when bang seats are taken out of service, as it is not a part that can be easily deactivated?

Found one on a dig a few years ago and caused me all sorts of problems (Had no intention of trying to keep it - just wanted to do the right thing with it!)

[XF940]

However, isn't that the barometric firing device still in situ - thought these were always removed when bang seats are taken out of service, as it is not a part that can be easily deactivated?

All of the Vulcan seats that have been through my hands, including the pair I still have that are fully kitted out and complete have the BTRU's, as does my Hunter seat. They aren't exactly 'dangerous' unless you trip the thing and have your fingers in the mechanism at the time, as all that happens is the timer runs, and then the plunger springs down to operate the release system. Some BTRU's have a nasty 'spike' at the top, but that tends to be accessible only when the BTRU is off the seat - in the Vulcan it is used to keep the scissor shackle closed and drops out of the way to release the seat from the stabilising drogue and to deploy the chute.

There is really nothing to deactivate, tripped ones are very difficult to reset but can be done with some effort (best off the seat).

And that polished seat is just so wrong IMHO ... quite well done I grant you, but $24,500?!!!!

[N.Wotherspoon]

All of the Vulcan seats that have been through my hands, including the pair I still have that are fully kitted out and complete have the BTRU's, as does my Hunter seat. They aren't exactly 'dangerous' unless you trip the thing and have your fingers in the mechanism at the time

Hi XF940 - Sorry obviously getting my MBEU parts mixed up - I have had three at various times, but all incomplete - The item on the right with the big red DANGER panel on it - drogue gun? EOD were pretty happy to take it away - Eventually!

[XF940]

The drogue gun is a bit of an anomaly really, because it DOES take an explosive cartridge, DOES have a firing pin (sort of) and DOES have a barrel. But I don't think they've ever been classed as a firearm - presumably because it doesn't take any sort of standard calibre 'gun' cartrige. But let's not give the men in grey suits any (more) clever ideas eh?

None of my seats have ever been live and have always had the firing carts. removed - something I'm sure the bay armourers do as a matter of course as soon as the seats are removed from the airframe (or in some cases before). The Vulcan seat is pretty simple as only the drogue and gilloutine are 'gas operated', in the Victor seat, the manual release is also gas operated and has a cartridge.

[beachcomber]

Interesting
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thompson-S...item1c21f449a2

Today, several major UK aviation museums (such as the IWM, Duxford and the RAFM, Hendon) have restored Thompsons on public display. The Brooklands Museum has just acquired an example. But no more than 19 original vehicles are known to survive in the UK with a few others believed to be in museums overseas.

[Blue_2]

Elvington has a restored Thompson too...

[Firebex]

Item number: 130614334581 Merlin 225 aero engine

You have to give this con artist 10 out of 10 for trying this is the engine I posted a week or so back with a cautionary tale.How do I know ? he is even using the same photographs and part of his original description.

To Repeat DO NOT BELIEVE anything written in the description or if anyone rings the guy or emails him what ever he tells you about how good it is.Is NOT TRUE

THIS ENGINE IS A TOTAL WRECK FROM A CRASHED MOSQUITO IS VERY BADLY DAMAGED.THE BOTTOM IS RIPPED OUT OF IT AND IT IS SEIZED UP SOLID.No cooling system,pump,pipes etc,supercharge bottom and gear drive carb and bottom of engine case damaged.Nose case repaired ?(bad grinder marks not very well filled) Black paint put on engine with a trowel.Car type spark plugs in lower (there from original factory honest guv !!!)All damage either "Corrosion" or perhaps the previous owner "might have dropped it"
Yes the RAF previous owner from a height in an aircraft into a hole !!!!!

Sadly it seems someone has been taken in because he has an offer on the engine. I also note he is using a different identity to sell the engine it appears to be a female ID.

At the best the only thing you could salvage is the heads and the rocker covers well at least one of them as the other is damaged and bodged up.He also has a nearly new carb in a box but not off this engine.Professional opinion we had from a war bird aero engine specialist take a zero off the end of the asking price and you are about somewhere near its true worth.

If anyone has been looking LOOK ELSEWHERE its very not worth it you are being asked top dollar for a scrap engine !!!!!

This guy wants seriously taking to trading standards he has been told face to face by a professional engineer and others in the know the engine is scrap,
he claims he did not know but even a blind man with a white stick and a guide dog can see there is something seriously wrong with it.he claims he is not fussed if he sells it or not. NOTE None of his photographs are close up or show the lower/bottom sections of the engine. Yet here he is a couple of weeks later trying it on again and he still has it in the Brooklands Auction In February claiming its a new unused engine stored from new complete and potential flyer.(It would not fly even if you threw it off the top of a block of flats). And he never discloses any damage to enquirers

Please if anyone knows anyone who has expressed interest in this engine tell them WALK AWAY FROM IT OR YOU WILL BE RIPPED OFF.

Please I do not rubbish anyone or anything lightly but someone is going to be badly burnt if they buy this unawares and heaven forbid unseen.

Mike E

www.whirlwindfighterproject.org