Hot Dog's Ketchup Filled F-35 News Thread

[SpudmanWP]

It is an interim solution til VSI gets it's s**t together and fixes the nighttime video issue. If VSI does not, then the video (and stereo optics) could be added to the BAE set.

[djcross]

NAVAIR is demanding the helmet mounted display have 20/26 vision comparable to NVGs. That requirement can only be met with a 2000 x 2000 pixel display. Such a display does not exist on the market that fits the helmet size requirements and it will probably be several years before such an array is available.

[flanker30]

According to flightglobal.com,

"US defence chiefs raise alarm on cost of three F-35 variants

BY: STEPHEN TRIMBLE WASHINGTON DC 2 hours ago Source:

The new chairman of the joint chiefs of staff has raised concerns about the cost of building three variants of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II.

"I am concerned about the three variants and whether we can go forward in this fiscal environment with all three, but I am eager to learn more about that," said General Martin Dempsey, speaking at a House Armed Services Committee hearing on 13 October.

"Three variants create some fiscal challenges for us," he added........."

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...riants-363414/


As a matter of interest, (i) what would the F-35 have looked like if they hadn't been obliged to produce a STOVL variant?, and (ii) what will replace the Harrier II if the Marines lose the F-35B?

The only thing that looks sure at the moment is that the USAF will get some F-35As.

[19K11]

It does seem to be bad omen.........

[hjelpekokk]

I've not been able to find any reference to viffing in flight ever being used in combat.

Apart from the nozzles & piping to them, a large part of the Harrier engine could be considered dead weight most of the time.

When Harriers was on visit in Finland, I heard that they had to get a tanker with very clean water for the harriers coling system for use during landing. It is injected in the engine during landing, so harriers are subbosed to have about a few hundred kilos of water as dead weight. can anybody confirm this?

[SpudmanWP]

Here is the info you need from the AV-8B ops manual.

[hjelpekokk]

Oi, thx :-)

[19K11]

Are the Marines about to be thrown under the bus?!

[Snow Monkey]

Thanks for the info on the helmet situation, Spudman and Djcross... Doesn`t seem to be one of the more reported aspects of the program, and I wasn`t sure what had happened since I had read of problems with the VSI product and their restructuring...

I came across this article which lays it out clearly, as well as within context of the broader program...

BAE will start delivering Q-Sight helmets next year with a new feature uniquely required for the F-35. An optical head tracking system will be integrated, allowing the pilot to aim weapons and navigate by looking in any direction.

Unlike most fighters developed since the 1970s, the F-35 is not designed with a head-up display that means the helmet must function as primary flight displays when the pilot looks outside the cockpit.

The VSI joint venture won the first development contract, offering a display with an integrated night-vision system.

However, VSI has struggled with technical glitches. In April, the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) reported the VSI display especially suffers from latency, meaning the display does not keep up with the pilot's head movements. Deficiencies have also been found with night operations, weapons aiming accuracy and laser eye protection, the GAO said.

The programme needs one of the helmet suppliers to develop a working display quickly. The GAO report warned that the F-35 cockpit will require a major redesign if the helmet-mounted display problems are not solved.

Meanwhile, the director of the office of test and evaluation reported last year that a working helmet is necessary to allow the F-35 to fly with Block II software.

[flanker30]

So was this a technological 'bridge too far'?

[obligatory]

That look even cooler than darth wader in his days

[SpudmanWP]

Not too far, just not there yet. The BAE helmet is just a placeholder till VSI fixes the latency and nighttime video image quality issues.

[quadbike]

There was a thing about an Israeli solution in this months dti.

[Snow Monkey]

What was that? Last I heard of the problems, I had the impression the Israeli Elbit was possibly getting kicked off (or vice versa?), that the partners in the project were going to be restructured, etc...?

[quadbike]

Don't remember exactly what but dealt with problems facing the current HMD & this Israeli system is one of the better options, looking for that issue now...will scan and post a link when I have found it.

[djcross]

A failing of the HMD is the requirement for binocular vision. No two pairs of eyes track targets the same way, because the location of eyes in the human skull are not the same. One eye is higher/lower than the other, one eye is closer/farther wrt the skull's centerline than the other, and one eye is further forward/aft than the other. The HMD has to compensate for eye tracking when it displays imagery or you get double images or images with shadows.

A person's brain has no problem correlating the two independent images in an imperfect eye/skull relationship because it has done so since infancy. But trying to place generated images in precise locations that will not confuse the brain is impossible using the current technology. Even if a proper motion map can be made of an individual pilot's eye tracking, you cannot keep the images coincident with each other. Slight shifts in helmet position from G loading (or even simple things like the pilot's hair length) throws off the ability to project coincident images. Add the complexity of the imagery being displayed, and the processors cannot keep up and you get images with "comet tails".

IMO, they should go to a monocular display. It would have a better chance of success.

[flanker30]

In 20-30 years they'll be able to bypass the eyes altogether and feed sensor imagery directly to the pilot's brain, but of course in 20-30 years there won't be a need, because there won't be any combat pilots. :diablo:

[obligatory]

Unfortunately the first guy to launch a massive cruise missile wins,
which is a strong incentive to be the aggressor

[LowObservable]

DJ - BAES (and UK researchers) have found that prolonged monocular use is fatiguing. Also, latency is a big fat issue (and a problem is that doubling the linear resolution of the sensor = 4X data).

Although one important issue is that technology has moved on. Q-Sight and Gentex Scorpion both use optical waveguides - with just a piece of flat glass in front of the eye, directly attached to the image source. No smoke (from hot high-intensity optical sources), mirrors, fat prisms or vizors.

[EELightning]

According to flightglobal.com,

"US defence chiefs raise alarm on cost of three F-35 variants

BY: STEPHEN TRIMBLE WASHINGTON DC 2 hours ago Source:

The new chairman of the joint chiefs of staff has raised concerns about the cost of building three variants of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II.

"I am concerned about the three variants and whether we can go forward in this fiscal environment with all three, but I am eager to learn more about that," said General Martin Dempsey, speaking at a House Armed Services Committee hearing on 13 October.

"Three variants create some fiscal challenges for us," he added........."

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...riants-363414/

If one of the variants gets a bullet in the back of the head it'll most certainly be the 'B' variant...

...In that case Italy and Spain better come up with a plan B (no pun intended) rather soon...

What a mess....

[EELightning]

Nevermind Italy & Spain looking for a plan 'B'...

The SDSR criticised the £20 billion carrier plan that it had inherited for two new carriers and around 150 JSFs as ‘crowding out other important investment in the Armed Forces’. But it has since committed itself to a further investment of around £1 billion in converting one of the two new carriers to operate in a catapult and arrestor gear configuration. No decision has yet been announced on how many JSFs, UAVs and/or helicopters will be purchased for deployment on the new carrier.

The government has confirmed that it now envisages routinely deploying only twelve JSF aircraft on the carrier for operations, compared to the original thirty-six. And the requirement for daily sortie generation has been reduced from seventy-two to twenty. This suggests that the government could now be envisaging a total JSF buy of no more than fifty aircraft. But this could still mean procurement costs amounting to around £5 billion, in addition to more than £2 billion already spent or committed for the development and demonstration phases.

Plans for initial deployment of the new Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier in 2020 suggest that the first tranche of JSF aircraft will have to enter service on, or around, the same date. It is far from clear, however, whether the MoD will be able to afford to buy as many as fifty aircraft by that date. Because the F-35 is not being produced domestically (like new submarines), or through a rigid collaborative structure (like Typhoon), the MoD has greater flexibility to vary the size and pace of procurement as unit costs, operational requirements and availability of funds alter. The projected sharp increase in deterrent production spending from 2021, together with the costs involved in bringing a new and sophisticated capability (the aircraft carrier) into service around the same time, could mean that there simply are not the funds to buy even the fifty or so JSF aircraft that at present seem realistic. A reduction in the number is especially likely if the price that the UK is asked to pay for the F-35C continues to rise.

http://www.rusi.org/downloads/assets...erSept2011.pdf

Hmmm....

[flanker30]

.....The government has confirmed that it now envisages routinely deploying only twelve JSF aircraft on the carrier for operations, compared to the original thirty-six. And the requirement for daily sortie generation has been reduced from seventy-two to twenty. This suggests that the government could now be envisaging a total JSF buy of no more than fifty aircraft.....

Those numbers appear to make a complete nonsense of the size of the new carriers. What a shambles!

[swerve]

The government has confirmed that it now envisages routinely deploying only twelve JSF aircraft on the carrier for operations, compared to the original thirty-six.

I don't think it was ever envisaged to routinely deploy 36.

[SpudmanWP]

Looks like Japan just nixed the Typhoon, leaving just the F-35 and F-18

Someone with a membership can get more info.

Original
http://www.nikkei.com/news/headline/...E2?n_cid=TW001

Translated
http://translate.google.com/translat...Fn_cid%3DTW001

[Stan hyd]

Shock Japan buys American. Scared of china and it's power in the region buy from the only country able to check any Chinese aggression.

[SpudmanWP]

Here is a graphic from the above Nikkei article (thanks Slowman for providing).

The first category is "Operability/Maneuverability", the second category is "Industrial Participation", the third category is "Relations with the US".

Biggest surprise for F-35 haters is that it placed the F-35 above the F-18 and Typhoon in "Operability/Maneuverability"

[Rii]

Are you sure that article/translation means what you think it means?

If one of the variants gets a bullet in the back of the head it'll most certainly be the 'B' variant...

...In that case Italy and Spain better come up with a plan B (no pun intended) rather soon...

Given the finances of those nations I think I have a pretty good idea of what that 'Plan B' is. Could be for the best in the long run if it results in increased pressure for European integration.

[SpudmanWP]

That was Slowman's translation. As he hates the F-35 and thinks that it will be the "destruction" of Japan's parts industry, I do not think he would have erred on the side of the F-35.

[MSphere]

These results are not based on any real test data, just manufacturer's claims. Well, at least in the case of the F-35 as I can't see how Japanese could have tested the bird thus far.

If I look at the pile of crap LM has so far published about their little wonder, I am surprised that the F-35 hasn't got at least five circles instead of two..

[quadbike]

Hail F 35 destroying another Eurobird.