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Thread: Russian Navy Thread

  1. #811
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    Related to that, an old controversy I've been seeing for a while now. Related to the fact that the Stereguschy's furnishings were provided by a British firm.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=14784

    Independent Lawyers: Defense Ministry Decided to Import Shipborne Furniture Illegally
    Of course, the mention of 'independent' lawyers and novelists does not inspire credibility, but this has had many articles on it and it does seem a legitimate issue: Why import furniture for Russian Navy ships when old domestic suppliers could just have developed comparable analogues?

  2. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by killerbean View Post
    Much of the criticism is indeed BS, but at least there's a nice collection of pics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gollevainen View Post
    I remember reading from somewhere that when Soviets fielded Kiev, Minks and Novorossisk they found out that those huge ships (for soviet standarts) were ill-equipted in heating systems and constantly tried keeping then out of the cold ports of Severomorsk and Vladivostok during the winter times. I quess the same proplem plagues Kuznetsov as well.
    I once posted a Russian source regarding the Kuznetsov's problems with cold weather, and the part about not having auxiliary boilers is true. Also it appears it lacks many icy weather specific features like special window glass that won't frost over so easily and so on. Basically the Soviet Navy hadn't expected it to be permanently stationed this far north.

    Hopefully it'll be solved when it undergoes its refurbishment starting next year.

  3. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witcha View Post
    Much of the criticism is indeed BS, but at least there's a nice collection of pics.
    .
    Yeah. What's that pic overlooking the Kuz deck across cargo vessel into the harbor area: what sub is sitting their abadoned and sunk?

  4. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanshan View Post
    Yeah. What's that pic overlooking the Kuz deck across cargo vessel into the harbor area: what sub is sitting their abadoned and sunk?
    Good question, it's a diesel sub...could it be a Whiskey?

    Great set of pics about Kuznetsov. Even pic showing compartment layout by deck...I'd have thought stuff like that is not for public release?

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yama View Post
    Good question, it's a diesel sub...could it be a Whiskey?

    Great set of pics about Kuznetsov. Even pic showing compartment layout by deck...I'd have thought stuff like that is not for public release?
    There are plenty pics of interior @ Balancers.
    The pics @ English Russia are not even recent.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  6. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango III View Post
    Russian Warships to Patrol Syrian Coast
    15:02 13/04/2012

    MOSCOW, April 13 (RIA Novosti) – Russian warships will be continuously deployed for patrol duty off the Syrian coast in the Mediterranean, a high-ranking source in the Russian Defense Ministry said on Friday.
    “A decision has been made to deploy Russian warships near the Syrian shores on a permanent basis,” the source said.

    The Russian Kashin-class guided-missile destroyer Smetlivy is currently deployed near the Syrian coast.

    “Another Black Sea Fleet ship will replace the Smetlivy in May,” the source said, adding that several Russian warships were on their way to the Mediterranean.

    “This may be the Pytlivy frigate or one of the amphibious assault ships,” he said, adding that “deployment of a Black Sea Fleet task force to the region cannot be ruled out.”

    The United States, France, Great Britain, Germany and some other countries have deployed more warships to the Mediterranean since the outbreak of unrest in Syria in February 2012. More than 9,000 people have been killed in the violence, according to the United Nations. On Thursday, the Syrian government declared a ceasefire with opposition fighters as part of a U.N.-brokered peace plan.

    The Russian military has repeatedly underscored the need for Russian warships to patrol the Mediterranean on a permanent basis. In Soviet days, up to 50 warships from the Fifth Squadron of the Russian Black Sea Fleet and other Soviet Navy units have been deployed in the Mediterranean on a permanent basis.

    Over the winter months, a Russian task force, led by the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier, has been deployed to the Mediterranean. The ships returned to the Russian Northern Fleet’s home base of Severomorsk in February, after two-month naval exercises.

    Other Russian ships currently on patrol duty in the Mediterranean are the Kildin surveillance ship, as well as the Iman tanker vessel and a floating workshop deployed near the Syrian port of Tartus.
    Its a joke.....
    There is no point in wishing things to have happened differently...but I want to repeat....IF and only IF the Russian MoD had used their head to channel the funds properly, they could have upgraded their Pr.1155 & Pr.956 primary combatants with decent AA package. With these ships Russian Navy could have presented a decent force in the region. Be it around Syria or the Persian Gulf.

    That is what I have been saying or rather wishing when ever I mention those two class of warships.

    Even half a dozen of ships based out from Iranian ports in the Gulf would have given enough power to turn around things. Iranian Navy does not have much capability. But a properly operational Sovremennys or Udaloys (aided by SSN) threatening a blockade of the Persian Gulf if Russian interests are threatened in the region would be a different matter.

    They still have time to give "mission specific" upgrade for the pr.1155 rather than wasting the hulls. Upgrade it with good Shtil-I VL and 9m96e2 package and it will do good for a decade with proper maintenance.

    For the Sovremennys, if the current propulsion is completely out, cut open the hull remove the old boilers and install the new KVG-3D diesel fired boilers thats doing duty on INS Vikramaditya.....give it a good system upgrade and AA weapons package and it will be good enough to put some might for 10-15 years till the new ships arrive.

    But the dumbarses in the higher ups are just sitting and wasting these hulls.

  7. #817
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    Money, money, money BoGo...not enough to go round and much easier to make a pretty "side income" through new construction.

    The 1155 hulls have been in good shape for the most part and pretty active.
    They have an excellent self defense suit, problem is not much SAM range.

    956 is a bigger problem, it is just not worth the massive rebuild necessary for aging hulls. However you will be glad to hear there have been some tentative good news regarding the inactive 956 hulls ( at least the ones not in terrible shape)...we might see 2-3 be brought back to combat readiness.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  8. #818
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    http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=105712&cid=25

    Repairs on Yekaterinburg will start before the end of the year. Zvezdochka will repair the ship, and complete the planned modernization + 5-6 year life extension.

    Work is planned to be finished before the fall of 2014.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  9. #819
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  10. #820
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    Parked next to a project 1204 Shmel river monitor.

    Last edited by Wanshan; 16th April 2012 at 06:42.

  11. #821
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    Packing some nice tech for her size; she'll be the ideal compliment to the Stereguschy class.

    Does the Buyan class have ASW armament?

  12. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witcha View Post
    Packing some nice tech for her size; she'll be the ideal compliment to the Stereguschy class.

    Does the Buyan class have ASW armament?
    Presently not. Future variant could.

    Last edited by Wanshan; 16th April 2012 at 21:56.

  13. #823
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    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20120415/626323148.html

    The naval exercise with China will involve 4 1155s and the Varyag cruiser. Looks big, can't wait for photos.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  14. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witcha View Post
    Packing some nice tech for her size; she'll be the ideal compliment to the Stereguschy class.

    Does the Buyan class have ASW armament?
    They do not have a direct one as Wanshan pointed out earlier.

    But they do have another design form JSC Zelenodlsk Design Bureau for ASW purpose. The new Pr.1124M is not to be confused with the earlier Pr.1124. We can see the hull design have some similarity with the Pr.21360/21361....but unlike the pr.21630/21361, they have channeled the exhaust to the top.

    In the last attachment you can see three good designs from the same design bureau. Pr.1124M, Pr.21360 & Pr.1166.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #825
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    Somwhat sad if true...

    http://rusnavy.com/news/newsofday/in...EMENT_ID=14938

    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov Received Secondhand Anchor

    The violation was detected when Director General of JSC Nevsky Yakor Valentin Ponomarev tied a delivery contract for an anchor with JSC Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center. Procuracy says the businessman received RUR 4 mln from Russian Defense Ministry, but spent only RUR 1 mln.

    ....

    Investigators found out that Ponomarev falsified a certificate with fictitious size and weight of the anchor.

  16. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by JangBoGo View Post
    Even half a dozen of ships based out from Iranian ports in the Gulf would have given enough power to turn around things. Iranian Navy does not have much capability. But a properly operational Sovremennys or Udaloys (aided by SSN) threatening a blockade of the Persian Gulf if Russian interests are threatened in the region would be a different matter.
    What Russian interests in the area? Russia has no economic interests there, & as long as nobody tries to conquer Iran & establish bases in it (& that is not an option: no serious person even on the American right is suggesting it) no geostrategic interests.

    A Russian intervention such as you propose would be a purely spoiling action, dog in the manger behaviour: "what weakens you strengthens me".

    BTW, a blockade is an act of war. You're proposing that Russia declares war on Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc., & cuts off a large part of the oil supplies of (among others) India, China & Japan, without any threat to its own strategic interests. Why would it do such a stupid & reckless thing?
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  17. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witcha View Post
    Not sad, very unsurprising.

    Glad the sucker got caught.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  18. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    What Russian interests in the area? Russia has no economic interests there, & as long as nobody tries to conquer Iran & establish bases in it (& that is not an option: no serious person even on the American right is suggesting it) no geostrategic interests.

    A Russian intervention such as you propose would be a purely spoiling action, dog in the manger behaviour: "what weakens you strengthens me".

    BTW, a blockade is an act of war. You're proposing that Russia declares war on Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc., & cuts off a large part of the oil supplies of (among others) India, China & Japan, without any threat to its own strategic interests. Why would it do such a stupid & reckless thing?
    what interests Russia have in fighting Somali pirates beside that place is in Red Sea.
    i dont think Russia is spending $800b on conventional armaments to fight bankrupt West or dysfunctional Japan. and that money without creating new debt. The list of countries like India/China/Japan are not important so even they are squeezed due to high Oil prices. These countries have zero influence on Russia decision making.

    Russia will have no problem in declaring war on Gulf Arabs provided certain degree of support is reached with large muslim populated countries like Bangladesh/Iran/Pakistan/Indonesia/Malyasia/Iraq. These countries can provide large number of ground troops and landing, overflight rights.
    Russia have enough cash, food, energy and technical expertize to built water and gas pipelines that it can buy these countries leadership.
    but first it is working on to discredit Arabs in eyes of rest of muslim world.

    Just look at Syria example when all Arab league is doing is begging for help from West and even with load of cash inducements Turkey cannot help Arabs.

  19. #829
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    First of all, it is not 800 billion, and second, the re-armament certainly includes strategic nuclear weapons, and delivery methods.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  20. #830
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    In today exchange rates it is closer to $790b. and it will reach well over $1T in dollar terms by 2020. $800b is reasonable number for conventional armament.

    http://www.securityconference.de/Top...e3ca1bc.0.html
    Mr. Putin announced Russia would spend 23 trillion roubles ($777 billion) through to 2020 on its military.

  21. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    In today exchange rates it is closer to $790b. and it will reach well over $1T in dollar terms by 2020. $800b is reasonable number for conventional armament.

    http://www.securityconference.de/Top...e3ca1bc.0.html
    Mr. Putin announced Russia would spend 23 trillion roubles ($777 billion) through to 2020 on its military.
    Actually there are lot of factors specially Economy and Oil price that would shape the funding ...... if Oil prices gets impacted greatly like say gets below $80- 90 in the coming decade then it would have impact on SAP 2020.

    Actual Defence Spending is 20 trillion + 3 Trillion . 3 Trillion is for MIC etc , 20 Trillion is for Defence Budget and Arms procurement and R&D , out of 20 Trillion roughly about 70 % will be spend on procurement.

    Dollar value of SAP money is good to get an idea on the spending value in $ but it really does not matter how much $ because Russia does not import arms majorly and does not have to pay in dollar and the fluctuation of dollar does not matter much.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  22. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    the re-armament certainly includes strategic nuclear weapons, and delivery methods.
    Out of the SAP funding for Military of 20 trillion roubles

    Strategic Forces gets 10 % of 20 Trillion which is ~ $ 70 billion
    Navy gets 4.8 Trillion roubles which is about $160 billion
    Unified Air and Space Defence gets ~ 3 Trillion roubles about $100 billion.

    The rest of break up for Army and Airforce i am not aware.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  23. #833
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    Good news for you fans of Baltisky Zavod.

    http://vz.ru/news/2012/4/20/575325.html
    Russian Mistrals to be built there.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  24. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Actually there are lot of factors specially Economy and Oil price that would shape the funding ...... if Oil prices gets impacted greatly like say gets below $80- 90 in the coming decade then it would have impact on SAP 2020.
    Those scenarios are taken into when creating long range economic forecasts.
    Actual Defence Spending is 20 trillion + 3 Trillion . 3 Trillion is for MIC etc , 20 Trillion is for Defence Budget and Arms procurement and R&D , out of 20 Trillion roughly about 70 % will be spend on procurement.
    That money is only for equiping 70% of modernization by 2020. For optimum they asked for 36T roubles. which is about 1.3Trillion in dollar terms. every 4 years. the long term budget is increased. infact i will not be surprized that around 2015 another big increase is announced.
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/fb3f2...#axzz1sgqjKaBX

    http://zbigniewmazurak.wordpress.com...wn-inexorably/
    The Telegraph was right to point out that, as the IISS has reported, Russia is understating its defense spending and that Russia’s real defense budget for FY2007 was 40 bn GBP (the equivalent of $80 bn back then), which was larger than British defense budget of the time, as well as all British defense budgets before the FY2010-2011 defense budget.

    Vladimir Popovkin, Russia’s first deputy defence minister, said earlier this month that the overall programme budget is also being reassessed and could be boosted to 425 billion pounds in the near future.” – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...a/7919113/Rus…
    Dollar value of SAP money is good to get an idea on the spending value in $ but it really does not matter how much $ because Russia does not import arms majorly and does not have to pay in dollar and the fluctuation of dollar does not matter much.
    I agree dollar value dont matter but it has affect of paying competitive wages to scientist, engineers, technicians. for this class of people you need to keep them enough salaries/free housing on large industrial premise so they can afford things that are imported like Japanese Cameras. .

  25. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    Those scenarios are taken into when creating long range economic forecasts.
    To some extent yes but as you know 50 % of Russia budget income comes from Oil revenue , so its very sensitive to oil price.

    If the Oil prices go below $70 then it would drastically impact defence spending , even putin admitted recently that in event oil reaches $70 then some program needs to be reorganised.

    I am sure you might be aware the ex finance Kudrin minister who Putin has praised mentioned this level of defence expenditure was not sustainable.

    That money is only for equiping 70% of modernization by 2020. For optimum they asked for 36T roubles.
    Well its normal for MOD to ask but its not necessary they will get it , the finance ministry (Kudrin ) was not willing to give more than 14 trillion but government over ruled FM objection settled for 23 trillion

    Dont believe the Telegraph on Russian matter its just a propaganda tool used against russia , typical UK hate towards russia nothing more , I really dont know how they figure out the the so called Hidden buget value , if russia really spends more then what it claims then it would be a state secret , mostly these are propaganda.

    I agree dollar value dont matter but it has affect of paying competitive wages to scientist, engineers, technicians. for this class of people you need to keep them enough salaries/free housing on large industrial premise so they can afford things that are imported like Japanese Cameras. .
    Yeah that true but I read with the recent pay rise early this year the Russian Armed Forces pay would be by and large comparable to NATO armed forces , not sure how well the scientist and engineers gets paid.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  26. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Yeah that true but I read with the recent pay rise early this year the Russian Armed Forces pay would be by and large comparable to NATO armed forces ,
    Since Turkey, Romania & Bulgaria are NATO countries, that could be true. Comparable with some NATO countries. :diablo:

    Bur comparable with pay rates of NATO soldiers from Western Europe & North America? Not possible unless someone is telling absolutely enormous lies about the Russian military budget.

    Just look at the numbers of troops. Compare it to those in NATO forces. Then look at the defence budgets. Check how much the NATO countries are spending on personnel costs. Pay Russian troops at those rates, & pay alone would be much, much more than total Russian military spending.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  27. #837
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    DIMMI blog mentions Belgorod will get Boild Missile 949AM while the exisisting Oscar 2 will be upgraded to 949AM2 standard with Kalbir and Onisk

    So Bolid project is still active ? I thought it was cancelled long time back.

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-608.html
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  28. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Since Turkey, Romania & Bulgaria are NATO countries, that could be true. Comparable with some NATO countries. :diablo:

    Bur comparable with pay rates of NATO soldiers from Western Europe & North America? Not possible unless someone is telling absolutely enormous lies about the Russian military budget.
    Not for everyone. But certain officers and contract troops, yes, got a huge pay increase recently.
    For the first time people are getting paid more than average civilian income they might otherwise get.

    Twower cover it well, if you are interested.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  29. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    To some extent yes but as you know 50 % of Russia budget income comes from Oil revenue , so its very sensitive to oil price.

    If the Oil prices go below $70 then it would drastically impact defence spending , even putin admitted recently that in event oil reaches $70 then some program needs to be reorganised.

    I am sure you might be aware the ex finance Kudrin minister who Putin has praised mentioned this level of defence expenditure was not sustainable.
    And Putin also said Pak is not only more important than India but also Iran/Turkey etc. you have to look at context. countries are ranked based how much usefull they are in case Russia has to go to war with Gulf Arabs.
    http://www.dayafterindia.com/detail....ent&catid=2650

    Putin is only been nice about Kudrin Past. not his future. He use Past & future alternatively between things. why should Russian government need to tell the truth about resources. They are not in need of bailout like Greece. All we know at this point that 2012 long term rearmament programe is 50% bigger than what was planned in 2008. so 2009 financial crises have no impact on long term contracts unless you can prove it otherwise?

    Well its normal for MOD to ask but its not necessary they will get it , the finance ministry (Kudrin ) was not willing to give more than 14 trillion but government over ruled FM objection settled for 23 trillion
    well they got 23 Trillion. let see few years later they will increase with much larger sums. The task ahead of them cannot be solved with 23 trillion.
    Dont believe the Telegraph on Russian matter its just a propaganda tool used against russia , typical UK hate towards russia nothing more , I really dont know how they figure out the the so called Hidden buget value , if russia really spends more then what it claims then it would be a state secret , mostly these are propaganda.
    Telegraph is quoting ISS. not some random opinion. consider this they budgeted $3b for housing. and but wants $12b in total. let say they settle for middle number of $6b. any defence budget that is spending $6b on housing construction will be way bigger than $100b per year.
    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120409/172696466.html
    Defense Ministry Seeks $9.2 Bln More For Housing

    Yeah that true but I read with the recent pay rise early this year the Russian Armed Forces pay would be by and large comparable to NATO armed forces , not sure how well the scientist and engineers gets paid.
    well in Siberia it is $2500 a month for researcher. Again quoting Russian source.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored...investors.html

  30. #840
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    2 questions for insomniacs: How could a de-armed Krivak I end up in the DPRK? And, which ship would it likely be?

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