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Thread: Hot Dog Indian AF News and Discussion Part 17

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Why Asraam? Might buy IRIS-T (already integrated on Typhoon), or even AIM-9X, or integrate something Israeli. Rafale would also imply Meteor, BTW. France has ordered it. Or just integrate Astra. If it's good enough for Indian-built aircraft, why not?
    I wonder what the initial EFs - if chosen- will come with, if Meteor is not available by 2016...will the RAF et al just re-export (assuming they are allowed to) their AMRAAM stocks...

    Yeah, all fighters will be made ASTRA capable ultimately, but the EF USP as told by its makers is the meteor + aesa combo, which they told indian press can handle even aircraft like j-20 with reduced frontal rcs..

    if current logic holds IAF will have at least 6 active RF BVR types ...rvv-ae, rvv-sd probable (fgfa), astra mk-2 (if iaf standardizes on this versus mk-1 of 80 km range), derby, mica, meteor apart from its inventory of 1000+ aa-10' sarh's..a russian lraam is probably on offer for the super-30 upgrade as well...as it is the bars offers more capability than current rvv-ae can use. an enhanced bars or an aesa as is reported, will offer significantly more range.

    logistics apart, its a pain for opponent jamming tho..

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    Why do people believe that the M2k upgrade speaks against the Rafale? Shouldn't it be the other way round? Buying possibly some Rafale technology for the upgrade (MDPU, LINS etc.) as well as weapons compatible with both aircraft it is in fact a strong argument for the Rafale and not against it. Though the policy of diversity is certainly in favour of the Typhoon, but does the Indians want a diversity at such scale?

  3. #183
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    India's Mirage upgrade: a prelude to a Rafale MMRCA win?


    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/as...-a-prelud.html


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    Looks like the Eurobug will win for sure. France has been placated with this waaaaaay over-priced upgrade.

    About IAF logistics... well just look at the number of different platforms they have been operating. I dont think they care too much about commonality of parts.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion82 View Post
    Why do people believe that the M2k upgrade speaks against the Rafale? Shouldn't it be the other way round? Buying possibly some Rafale technology for the upgrade (MDPU, LINS etc.) as well as weapons compatible with both aircraft it is in fact a strong argument for the Rafale and not against it. Though the policy of diversity is certainly in favour of the Typhoon, but does the Indians want a diversity at such scale?
    Scorpion, well the EF guys have 4 things going for them

    - AC is a hotrod interms of aero performance appealing to the IAF jocks who value air to air and tend to think A2G can always be added later, ie as on MKI, Mirage 2000 itself. you can add more fuel via CFTs as well.

    -Big radar dish etc helps it in terms of growth potential versus worst case future possibilities and compensates to some degree for current lack of enough awacs for all out 2 front war (only 8 ordered so far, while aerostats are enough for pak, they are not effective versus PRC thanks to mountains)

    - political push and offsets from EADS group are possibly more than can be offered by dassault which is a very profitability focused smaller, firm eg speaking out on tough indian offset reqs, not compromising on mirage upgrade price, not competing in japan (wont be a rabbit for japan etc)

    - india has already ordered scorpenes, thales lltr (19) and mirage upgrade from france but only hawks from UK and almost nothing from germany which is really pushing for orders

    OTOH
    - dassault has mirage 2000 lobby in india AF who wield a lot of influence, plus mindshare in terms of senior guys. "mirage 2000 is second most important aircraft in iaf next to sukhoi" - ex IAF Chief, FH Major, an ex chopper pilot (to support second point)
    -common logistics, weapons

    imo, the EF is a frontrunner but it all depends on L1 and offsets. i dont think the weapons will necessarily be factored in since india tends to negotiate packages for each acquisition separately. eg lca, mirage upgrade, jaguars all got separate programs.

    btw guys, about the life being only good for 20 more years, i think thats a sort of minimum guaranteed thing by the OEM, not a definitive thing. because the mirage is fairly sturdy. and if IAF/MOD have any brains, the $500m for HAL includes tot to remanufacture airframe components since the mirage 2000 line in france is closed down circa 2007 per reports

    from the excellent georg mader.. the comparisons to other aircraft eg mki etc from a technician are a bit hyperbolic since the mki was not there at kargil and is significantly more multirole (kh-31 for antiship/antiradar, kab-500, kh-25, kh-59me for air to ground plus litening, elta sar pods etc) but the important part is the bit about airframe fatigue.

    http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?o...=253&Itemid=47

    Called the ‘Vajra’ (Thunderbolt) in IAF-service, the single-seat Mirage 2000H (serials from KF101 on) and two-seat Mirage 2000TH (serials from KT201 on), the bulk of the planes were acquired in the mid-1980s. According to sources on site, nine (8+1 trainer) have since been lost or severely damaged in accidents. Now over 20 years old, all Mirage 2000s airframes like the six present on Feb. 7th were explained to ACIG as already in their second inspection- and overhaul cycles. The two operating sqdns. at Gwalior would usually send the fighters to HAL every 12 years or 2000 flying-hours, but so far all IAF Mirage 2000s have undergone overhaul and modernisations only after the calendar, not because of reaching 2000 hours.

    HAL’s shop-personnel was proudly pointing to the fact, that even in the second cycle, “pratically no fatique or cracks are discovered in the very robust blended delta-structure, not the same case in the Jaguar-fleet for example.” Despite with the standard Thompson RDM-radar the ‘Vajra’s does not offer multi-target capability for their SUPER 530D and Magic 550, “that does not take anything away from Mirage 2000 as its an excellent and beloved aircraft in India and by far the best purchase made by the IAF, even better than the Su-30 MKIs when you look at flexibility, performance and availability of the French aircraft, for example in the Kargil-conflict”, a technician expressed of course his personal views to ACIG.

    ACIG learned that when the Kargil conflict broke out in 1999 after Pakistani infiltrations in Kashmir, the Mirage 2000 performed remarkably well during the whole hostilities in the high Himalayas, even though their air-interdiction capability was a brand new asset. Right before the conflict, 38 remaining 2000Hs had been upgraded at Bengaluru with local flare dispensers and with the integration of LGBs. Their capability to drop PGMs – as well as conventional unguided bombs – was hastly made operational and the two squadrons flew a total of 515 sorties. In 240 strike missions they reportedly dropped 55 tons (120,000 lb) of ordnance. According to the HAL-personnel, easy maintenance and a very high sortie rate made the ‘Vajra’ one of the most efficient IAF-assets in the conflict.
    comparison to jags is germane because unlike mki (which are made, serviced at HAL nasik, maharashtra state up northwards) jags are serviced at HAL Bangalore itself so the maint guys would know immediate details and indeed as georg mader writes the jaguar is in pretty ok shape airfame and systems wise (hence the IAF deciding to upgrade it with drdo/HALs darin-3 and new engines). check the link for more.

    HAL’s ‘Overhaul Division’ is the approved repair agency for carrying out all major servicing of Jaguar aircraft and its engines, components and systems. At the time of visit, about 10 airframes of all the three versions Interdiction-Strike (IS), two-seat Trainer (IB) and Maritime-Strike (IM) were undergoing major servicing and upgrading, shown in different stages of disassembly. HAL technicians said the company already has indeginised about 520 items into the original Jaguar-IS, including the spoiler mechanical block, throttle box, front/rear canopy frame, excitation/demodulation unit, bottom panels and canopy beams.

    Only each 5th airframe is reportedly showing issues of fatique or cracks, when they are inspected about every 10 years. That is seen as “an encouraging fact, given the stresses of mainly low-level work they are used in” a shop-manager underlined to ACIG. Not stressed beyond 8g with a design maximum of 12g, airframe-life was originally calculated at 3.000 hours for single-seaters and 6.000 for two-seaters. “Therefore it makes truly sense to invest in further improving and upgrading of the Shamsher”, the engineer said.
    hal got TOT for jaguars and can remanufacture the airframe for extra life.

    so the will last for 20 years thingy could be an underestimate, and the 20-25 years mentioned by some reports could actually be right. in which case, the newest mirage 2000's acquired in 2004, would be the last to go for life extension. assuming the first mirage 2000s get upgraded next year with a total of seven by 2013, another 20 years would give them till 2033. ok, i guess.
    Last edited by Teer; 14th July 2011 at 22:49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killerbean View Post
    Looks like the Eurobug will win for sure. France has been placated with this waaaaaay over-priced upgrade.

    About IAF logistics... well just look at the number of different platforms they have been operating. I dont think they care too much about commonality of parts.
    it was an iaf aim to reduce number of plane types.

    but the mmrca delays made the upgrades essential which means instead of the mmrca quickly replacing ALL the obsolete medium weight types, a significant number have had to be upgraded and will soldier on. plus is we are getting better kit than originally planned mirage 2000 and now aim to replace upgraded medium weight types with a stealthy AMCA

    on the plus side, after iaf operationalized IMMOLS, lifes eased up a fair bit for them. also the entire bit about TOT is not just access to tech, but localizing the spares supply.

    for su-30 mki, india received deep TOT, and manufactures most of the systems & components within HAL and partners. some of the less complex stuff is being still imported from russia as it was uneconomical to make in india, as is some of the raw material which is processed, machined in india. but over time, as on other projects, india will likely cover this as well. so again, around 80% and more localization by value added content.

    for MMRCA Ashok Nayak (HAL cheif) says SMES, pvt sectors can supply LRUs but for airframe & engine he expects HAL to indigenize ~80% (which is good news for the IAF)

    circa 2006: IMMOLS
    http://mod.nic.in/samachar/nov15-06/h2.htm

    It was October 8, the IAF Day. Air Vice Marshal Boparai had his morning round of golf and then quietly slipped into his official chamber and asked for a cup of lemon tea. He had a smile on his face. Something was about to change for all times to come for the Indian Armed Forces, the Air Force in particular—something that would raise the war fighting potential of Indian Air Force manifolds in a single stroke.

    Turning right towards his computer, he opened his account with a closely guarded secret code and logged on. In the next sixty seconds, he placed an indent for some critical spares of Jaguar fighter aircraft, with the press of a button on his computer. In the next one minute, he got the order cleared and sanctioned by finance officials sitting in Delhi. The smile got bigger and he felt like patting his back, for a change himself. With that stroke, India’s biggest ERP project—the IMMOL went on line.

    Thousands of hours had been sweated out by a core team of IAF officials before AVM, Boparai could afford that smile on his face on the morning of October 8, when he placed the indent. The project was proudly dedicated to the nation by Defence Minister the next day, on October 9 in New Delhi.

    The IMMOLS is a comprehensive Resource Planning Solution and stands for Integrated Materials Management online system.
    IMMOLS will help the IAF enhance its combative readiness

    Scattered resources and information database of millions of critical inputs and components ranging from nuts and bolts to missiles, bombs, aircraft components, engine parts, aircrafts and electronic equipments etc. have now been made available to the Commanders, war planners on the press of a button. Deployment and use of all assets of IAF has become extremely efficient and cost effective.

    The benefits of IMMOLS are far too many. The introduction of IMMOLS in IAF will result in sharp reduction in “downtime” and micro detailing of demand and supply of all inputs. Now, the use of each and every single input of the most complex and technical variety has been put on line and can be monitored. Instant Information about availability and location of all the fighting and material resources has suddenly provided the IAF with a much bigger asset visibility and availability of force levels. The IMMOLS has thus provided the IAF a giant push into the era of modern management of warfare and its network centric capabilities. A silent IMMOLS revolution is rapidly seeping through IAF. Powered and Engineered by the spine of Air Force — the logistics wing, the IAF is expecting to see greater flight safety standards as well as utilization of its assets in any eventuality.

    The IMMOLS is a unique management concept with a software solution where all the persons involved in making a decision about any aspect of any asset, be it procurement, positioning, repair, phasing out, utilization or financing, will act on the same platform online more or less at the same time. What used to take months and years through use of papers, files and e-mails, often leading to huge delays, now gets cleared in a few minutes as happened with AVM Boparai’s indent for Jaguar spares on October 8.
    More
    http://www.cio.in/case-study/it-impr...urnaround-time

    IMMOLS is a custom developed ERP for the IAF by TCS (Tata Consultancy Services), was conceptualized in 93-94 and is now operational across the AF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackArcher View Post
    BTW, does anyone recall when exactly did the change in the tail configuration occur ? They had vertical fins on the tail which were at some stage removed on TD-1 itself
    Dont know when it was removed but it was removed to reduce drag and was also found unnecessary.

    You can get info here -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJKDId1_D8g

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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Why Asraam? Might buy IRIS-T (already integrated on Typhoon), or even AIM-9X, or integrate something Israeli. Rafale would also imply Meteor, BTW. France has ordered it. Or just integrate Astra. If it's good enough for Indian-built aircraft, why not?
    Whether Asraam or IRIS -T/Aim 9X, my point is that this will add considerably to the weapons supply chain issue. I mentioned the Asraam because it was indicated as that this might be the SRAAMs for Jags.

    I mean how many SRAAMs does the IAF want/need - R73, Asraam (for Jags), Python, R73SD?, mica IIR.

    but the mmrca delays made the upgrades essential which means instead of the mmrca quickly replacing ALL the obsolete medium weight types, a significant number have had to be upgraded and will soldier on. plus is we are getting better kit than originally planned mirage 2000 and now aim to replace upgraded medium weight types with a stealthy AMCA
    Yes, but the M2k upgrades will start coming in AFTER the MRCA is inducted. Why not just do an inhouse/LUSH type and order a few extry mrcas in the bargain.

    I am so not convinced about this outrageous deal -

    1) Super pricey
    2) Super slow/late
    3) Super pedestrian - no AESA, no IRST, no new engine. WTF!

    They better be subsidizing the Rafale with this. Buying a goldplated typhoon at another insane price would be crazy -

    1) Tiffy not as convincing in terms of multirole
    2) Tiffy not convincing against J20 (irrespective of mft claims). Not even v. convincing against AESA equipped J11s (whenever that happens).
    3) Tiffy not convincing in terms of logistics and parts commonality
    4) Tiffy not convincing in terms of further development opportunity
    5) Tiffy fly muy muy fast but cost muy muy grande.
    5) Tiffy no good

    USS.

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    Logistics isn't really that bad and definitely something that con uld be handled in MRPsystems available relatively cheaply of the shelf. Also the UK is probably the worst example to take for the IAF which has real existential threats. The UK military although does a lot of fighting and bombing it can choose, take it or leave it and do not have existential threats apart from economical ones.
    Wrinkles wrinkles my kingdom fallen to a wrinkle

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    I mean how many SRAAMs does the IAF want/need - R73, Asraam (for Jags), Python, R73SD?, mica IIR.
    R73SD/K74 whatever is replacement for r-73. I think it's likely that IAF will opt for the python-5 instead of asraam for jags.
    so 3 in all, K74, python-5 and mica. one more type possible if MRCA goes EF way but I think IAF would want to integrate P-5/mica on it.
    HAL - one step ahead of IBM

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by uss novice View Post
    Yes, but the M2k upgrades will start coming in AFTER the MRCA is inducted. Why not just do an inhouse/LUSH type and order a few extry mrcas in the bargain.

    I am so not convinced about this outrageous deal -

    1) Super pricey
    2) Super slow/late
    3) Super pedestrian - no AESA, no IRST, no new engine. WTF!

    They better be subsidizing the Rafale with this. Buying a goldplated typhoon at another insane price would be crazy
    +1

    There is definitely something we dont know about this deal. It could well be tied with MMRCA in a way or another.

    Especially slow rate of upgradation for which they are giving $50+ million each.

    Mirage2000 just constitutes 2.5 squadrons in IAF. It must be quite dear to IAF.
    Last edited by Corrosion; 15th July 2011 at 14:07. Reason: Actually it comes out to be $50+ million

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
    +1

    There is definitely something we dont know about this deal. It could well be tied with MMRCA in a way or another.

    Especially slow rate of upgradation for which they are giving $40+ million each.

    Mirage2000 just constitutes 2.5 squadrons in IAF. It must be quite dear to IAF.
    So either rafale is definitely in or definitely out , wow that clears up the air a lot :rollseyes:

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    ^^^ Or it could be another scam. With the current GoI I won't be really surprised if it is actually......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinblade View Post
    So either rafale is definitely in or definitely out , wow that clears up the air a lot :rollseyes:
    Yeah, now we know for sure, either its going to be the rafale or the typhoon. Oh wait..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teer View Post
    I wonder what the initial EFs - if chosen- will come with, if Meteor is not available by 2016...will the RAF et al just re-export (assuming they are allowed to) their AMRAAM stocks...
    Meteor is in production (probably low rate: numbers have not been released) now. The Swedish air force says that it considers the missile combat-ready in an emergency, & in the unlikely event of having to fight to defend Sweden it would use the small number (procured for testing) it has.

    Four countries have placed orders so far.
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    It seems likely that whichever aircraft is chosen, rafale / Euro bug, it will be the Meteor which will be the primary BVR armament for it. MICA is a good AAM but it is rather short ranged.

    Personally, I would like to see the Euro Bug win this competition.

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    Basically IAF is spending US$ 76 Million per Mirage, so there is something that does not meet the eye.

    The investment of US$ 500 for HAL is huge amount especially when there is no specific product that is being manufactered, so there is some secret sauce here??

    Lastly I believe that Dassault will meet the offset obligations easily with Technolgy transfers. My "guess" would be Help in UCAV & AMCA

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    No secret sauce probably just a middle man sitting pretty.
    Wrinkles wrinkles my kingdom fallen to a wrinkle

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  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt View Post
    No secret sauce probably just a middle man sitting pretty.

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    IAF sticks to its preference for the Pilatus PC-7 MkII basic trainer.

    DATE:19/07/11
    SOURCE:Flight International
    Indian air force sticks with preference for PC-7 Mk II
    By Greg Waldron

    The Indian air force is adamant about its preference for the Pilatus PC-7 Mk II turboprop trainer for a 181 aircraft requirement, while rival bidders are reportedly eager to keep their candidates in the running.

    An industry source familiar with the $1 billion competition said Pilatus's entry with the PC-7 likely surprised rivals in the competition, as it is a less advanced aircraft than the company's PC-21 - albeit considerably less expensive.

    Nonetheless, Indian media reports suggested rival bidders are pressing the nation's government to keep their aircraft in the race. Other types that underwent technical trials by the Indian air force include the Airbus Military-promoted PZL-130 Orlik, Alenia Aermacchi M-311, Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano, Grob G120TP, Korea Aerospace Industries KT-1 and Raytheon T-6 Texan.

    Indian media reports said KAI is particularly anxious about having its KT-1 re-instated in the competition, although company representatives were unavailable to discuss the matter.

    The air force, for its part, is sticking by its preference. "As far as we're concerned there is no dispute," it said.

    The source added that Pilatus is conducting commercial negotiations with the Indian government, which will be followed by the Ministry of Finance obtaining budget for the deal from India's parliament. If approved, 75 aircraft will delivered in a flyaway condition, with another 106 to be produced by Hindustan Aeronautics in India.

    Under current plans, the selected manufacturer will be required to deliver an initial batch of 12 aircraft within two years of a contract signature.
    link to Flightglobal article

    Too much drama for a basic trainer. if the KT-1 was indeed cheaper than the PC-7 MkII then there is no reason to not go for it instead.

  22. #202
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    Depends on whether it'll do the job as well as the PC-7 Mk II, or as well as the IAF thinks it needs.

    There are reasons for the PC-7/PC-9 selling well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Depends on whether it'll do the job as well as the PC-7 Mk II, or as well as the IAF thinks it needs.

    There are reasons for the PC-7/PC-9 selling well.
    Swerve, what big advantage does the PC-7 MkII have over the KT-1 when it comes to performance ?

    And even if it does, a slight performance edge may not be that big a factor when you're talking about a basic trainer. However, even a small price difference per unit adds up to a lot when you're talking about 181 units. And the accusation that KAI made was that Pilatus was L1 in the tender because it hid some costs that will eventually appear when the cost negotiations begin.

    But I wonder as to how KAI found out that Pilatus did any wrongdoing..

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    Don't concentrate on the performance. This is a trainer: a few knots more speed, or whatever, is of little or no importance. What matters is how good it is for training pilots. Cockpit design, handling, reliability, safety, etc. Once that's sorted, one should consider lifetime costs, not initial purchase price.

    Too many people concentrate on aircraft performance, & pay too little attention to other important factors. On pure aircraft performance, for example, MiG-15 appeared superior to F-86, but the F-86 had advantages which cancelled out those performance advantages - and it always had an edge in air-air combat. For trainers, small performance differences are even less important.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Don't concentrate on the performance. This is a trainer: a few knots more speed, or whatever, is of little or no importance. What matters is how good it is for training pilots. Cockpit design, handling, reliability, safety, etc. Once that's sorted, one should consider lifetime costs, not initial purchase price.
    Training pilots in basic aviation skills. They will not be flying fast jets right after flying these basic trainers- instead graduate to the Hawks and then to fast jets or transports. The KT-1 can certainly train them as well as a PC-7 MkII can if it's docile enough to fly for a novice to mishandle it and get away, and has a relatively modern cockpit (which it does).

    I agree that the performance aspect, even though the KT-1 has a more powerful engine (PW PT6A-62 produces 950 hp) than the PC-7 MkII (PT6A-25A turboprop that produces 550 hp)- after all the PC-7 MkII is a PC-9 with a lower power engine to reduce costs of operating it. Visually one can hardly tell the KT-1 and PC-7 MkII apart, they look so similar.

    I'm not so sure about the KT-1's safety record vs the PC-7 MkII though..can anyone else shed some light on that?

    There is also the fact that India and South Korea have agreed to work on developing a strategic relationship. And there is nothing of that sort to gain from Switzerland. the KT-1 could form the basis of the beginning of a partnership where the two nations could join hands in new weapons programs that overlap the requirements of both their defence services (it will especially benefit the Indian Navy).
    Last edited by BlackArcher; 21st July 2011 at 21:48.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackArcher View Post
    . And there is nothing of that sort to gain from Switzerland.
    swiss can close all your secret bank accounts :diablo:

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    Does anybody here have more info on Hf-24 follow up designs ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-20 Hotdog View Post
    swiss can close all your secret bank accounts :diablo:
    Or worse publish them :diablo:
    Love Planes, Live Planes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinblade View Post
    Does anybody here have more info on Hf-24 follow up designs ?
    You mean the HF 25 and HF 73?
    Check here:
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=24656
    PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
    Have a good one..

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    The story of an extraordinary sortie

    THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: You’ve heard of people chasing the monsoon. How about hurtling after a solar eclipse at two-and-a-half times the speed of sound? In 1995, Sumit Mukerji, then commander of the MiG 25 squadron in Bareilly, did just that. At 80,000 feet above the earth. In almost-space.
    Air Marshal Mukerji, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Southern Air Command (SAC), who retired on Thursday after a career spanning nearly 40 years in the IAF, shared the story of the Big Flight of October 24, 1995, with City Express.
    �“It was part of an experiment for the solar observatory. We had to check the corona and the gases around the sun at that moment of time. We also had to photograph the eclipse with special cameras,” he said.� The MiG 25 ‘Foxbat’ is one of the rare fighters that can soar to such stupefying heights and maintain Mach 3 speeds.
    �“A regular airliner flies in the troposphere, at heights of 30,000 feet to 35,000 feet. Some may go even up to 40,000 feet. We had to do it in the stratosphere, as the sky is clearer there. No water vapour, no dust particles to block your vision,” recalled Mukerji, chosen for the job because he was commanding the MiG 25 squadron then and because of his rich flying experience.
    �Accompanied by co-pilot Wing Commander Y S Babu, Mukerji took off from Bareilly at noon. The extraordinary sortie was to be above Neemkhatana,� near Agra, along the central axis of the total solar eclipse. Eighty-thousand feet above the earth, there is no such thing as a blue sky.
    “It was pitch black and the stars were visible. We had the camera on, and we could see the sun gradually getting reduced in size. They were tracking the eclipse from the ground too. But they could see it only for 40 seconds. But because we were flying along with the sun, we saw it for all of one-and-a-half minutes,” Mukerji said.
    �“The photos we got during that flight were not available from the ground.”
    �A Bengali hailing from UP, young Sumit joined the National Defence Academy (NDA) in 1967, beginning a long adventure in uniform. He was commissioned into the IAF in January, 1972. When talking about the MiGs, the fighter pilot in him is eloquent.
    �“They are remarkable aeroplanes,” he says. But then, he would. He is the only Air Force officer to have commanded units having all of the MiG species; MiG 21, MiG 23, MiG 25, MiG 27 and MiG 29.
    �“The only pilot. There’s no one even in Russia,” he adds with a laugh.
    Thats one innovative use of the foxbat and a hell of a story to tell your grandkids
    Last edited by Twinblade; 26th July 2011 at 03:49.

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