Hot Dog Indian AF News and Discussion Part 17

[J-20 Hotdog]

old thread close.

so why no glass cockpit on ugpraded An-32s?

[J-20 Hotdog]

IAF destroys old munitions
http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...ence-personnel

[J Boyle]

Is that they placed an order for 10 C-17s with an option (expected to be excercised) for another six old news?

[Twinblade]

Is that they placed an order for 10 C-17s with an option (expected to be excercised) for another six old news?

Yes Sir old news

[rayrubik]

Awww.. this thread got hotdogged!!
Link to last thread

so why no glass cockpit on ugpraded An-32s?

Well that is a good question .Earlier it was reported that the upgrade will consist of glass cockpit like this:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEP...00-h/35421.jpg
Now there are two types of An 32 mods:

The AN-32Б-100 is the new variant of the AN-32Б aircraft has been developed in the result of the aircraft modernization. The new modification differs its predecessor by:
take-off weight increased up to 28.5 tons, and payload increased up to 7.5 tons;
installation of modified engine and its overrating mode control system;
mounting of АИ-20Д engines series 5M with increased life to the 1st overhaul, life between overhauls increased up to 4000 hours and assigned service life increased up to 20000 hours.
On the basis of the AN-32 military-transport aircraft is offered the deeper modification the AN-32B-200 variant. Besides the advantages of the AN-32Б-100 the new aircraft obtains:
up-to-date cockpit for two-pilot crew with digital airborne electronic system of the Collins type;
more airdropping-transport possibilities;
additional easy-removable tanks with total fuel capacity up to 3000 l, mounted at the fuselage external side, allow to increase the flight range up to 3200 km;
improved system of on-condition maintenance.

http://www.antonov.com/products/air/...N-32/index.xml
So it seems like IAF went for the An 32B -100 modification.Although there are few reports mentioning the presence of mfds in the cockpit..I cant see any.
So I gues IAF didnt want to throw much money on the upgrade.
Also consider that its been almost 30 years since the earliest An 32s entered Indian service. I have a feeling that in coming years IAF is going to order much more of its transports from US and gradually phase out all Russian types apart from inducting the HAL - UAC Il 214 MTA whenever that happens....

[TR1]

You mean Ukrainian transports.

[rayrubik]

Jag engine upgrade finally on??

India to do $2 bn deal for Jaguar engines from single vendor

IAF’s Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal P V Naik told India Strategic defence magazine (www.indiastrategic.in) in an interview that the Jaguars needed urgent upgrades, and that as there was still considerable life left in the airframes and systems, it was necessary to go ahead with the process as fast as possible.

Air Chief Marshal Naik said that the government had now decided to process the case on the “single vendor” basis keeping in view what is available, and most suited, and negotiate with the selected manufacturer.
IAF has nearly 125 twin-engine Jaguars, dubbed as Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft (DPSA) for ground attack role when the deal was initially signed. The aircraft can carry nuclear weapons.
Upgrades of the IAF Jaguars would also include modernisation of avionics, sensors for night operations, and integration of helmet mounted sights for the pilots.
The deal for new engines, 250-plus, inclusive of spares, should be worth more than $ 2 billion.

[rayrubik]

You mean Ukrainian transports.

I hope so but Ilyushin is not doing the waltz with us either...

[rayrubik]

Aha! I think I said this could be a possibility...
India to buy more than 16 C-17 airlifters

Reliable sources, however, say the IAF could opt for eight more aircraft, in which case the deal for the C-17s could touch about $10 billion or so.

That would make a total of 24 C 17s...looks like IAF took the spares issue seriously..
Expensive , but there cant be a better replacement for the Il 76..
-------
In other news ..
Pilatus PC-7 Mk-II may be IAF's choice for $1bn trainer aircraft deal

According to defence sources, the technical evaluation round came to an end in May this year. Financial evaluation commenced soon thereafter and the Pilatus PCT has apparently offered the lowest bid amongst the three.

[Twinblade]

Aha! I think I said this could be a possibility...
India to buy more than 16 C-17 airlifters



That would make a total of 24 C 17s...looks like IAF took the spares issue seriously..
Expensive , but there cant be a better replacement for the Il 76..
-------

IAF must be really pissed off with Ilyushin and really happy with Boeing. Reports suggest that IAF was really pleased with C-17's load carrying capacity at Leh in summer.

[TR1]

Talk about expensive. The MMRCA is all the media has been blabbering about for years, and this appears all of a sudden, with a much bigger monetary investment.

[Twinblade]

Talk about expensive. The MMRCA is all the media has been blabbering about for years, and this appears all of a sudden, with a much bigger monetary investment.

Wait till you hear about the coming submarine tender, supposed to supersede MMRCA as the single biggest deal

[Samsara]

Talk about expensive. The MMRCA is all the media has been blabbering about for years, and this appears all of a sudden, with a much bigger monetary investment.

How is it a bigger investment?..6.5 to 11 billion for the MMRCA.

[TR1]

How is it a bigger investment?..6.5 to 11 billion for the MMRCA.

That is without the potential options.

[Victor]

Any chance that an offset of the (6+8) options would be a C-17 configured as an engine testbed?

[Multirole]

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...-ashwani-kumar


1,700-seater indigenous aircraft soon

TNN Jun 13, 2011, 11.40am


ISTPANAJI: Union minister of state for science, technology and earth sciences Ashwani Kumar said a 1,700-seater passenger aircraft will be rolled out in the next seven years.

Speaking in Panaji, Kumar said development of the aircraft is in an advanced stage and hoped India will be able to produce this state-of-the-art indigenous passenger aircraft soon.

"This will lead to the development of 34 to 40 new aircraft," Kumar said. He said this would have a tremendous impact in connecting 2-tier and 3-tier cities. "There are many countries developing such aircraft but India and China are front runners," he said. The aircraft is being designed and developed by the National Aerospace Laboratory, Bangalore.

[Twinblade]

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...-ashwani-kumar


1,700-seater indigenous aircraft soon

TNN Jun 13, 2011, 11.40am


ISTPANAJI: Union minister of state for science, technology and earth sciences Ashwani Kumar said a 1,700-seater passenger aircraft will be rolled out in the next seven years.

Speaking in Panaji, Kumar said development of the aircraft is in an advanced stage and hoped India will be able to produce this state-of-the-art indigenous passenger aircraft soon.

"This will lead to the development of 34 to 40 new aircraft," Kumar said. He said this would have a tremendous impact in connecting 2-tier and 3-tier cities. "There are many countries developing such aircraft but India and China are front runners," he said. The aircraft is being designed and developed by the National Aerospace Laboratory, Bangalore.

Haha, possibly one or two extra zeroes in the number of seats

[quadbike]

Everyone in this thread could be a better Aerospace/defense Jounrno than these idiots.

[Twinblade]

Everyone in this thread could be a better Aerospace/defense Jounrno than these idiots.

i think everyone at the event (minister and journos) had a little too much of fine goan cashew wine

[Kramer]

Everyone in this thread could be a better Aerospace/defense Jounrno than these idiots.

DDM (desi dork media) are really plumbing the depths now..just unbelievable.

[Yudhishtir]

i think everyone at the event (minister and journos) had a little too much of fine goan cashew wine

Feni! Foul tasting and the mother of all morning breaths!!!

[quadbike]

C-17 done deal.

Indian C-17 Deal Done! Here's Boeing's Statement

[Twinblade]

India set to decide big military aircraft deals

On Helicopters

In an interview for India Strategic’s Paris Air Show edition, the Air Chief said that IAF had already finalized its choice for the combat helicopter while that of the utility helicopter had also been through with the Indian Army, which is the lead buyer in this case. IAF will follow and buy the same helicopter.

As for the heavy lift helicopter, “the final report can be expected within the few days,” he said

Boeing’s Apache AH 64D and the Russian Mi 28NE are the two contenders in the race for combat helicopters while Boeing’s Chinook – the only helicopter which can float on water – and Russian Rosoboronexport’s Mi 26 are in the fray for the heavy lift role. The utility helicopter race for the Indian Army and IAF has the EADS Eurocopter and Russian Kamov in the race.

On MMRCA

the commercial bids of the two finalists in the race for 126-plus Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCAs) would be opened mid-June (possibly before the Paris Air Show beginning June 20),

The Air Chief did not give any figures, but a rough calculation shows that IAF could be announcing deals worth $ 30 billion, or more, by the end of 2011.
The Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) deal, for which only the Eurofighter and Rafale remain in the fray, could touch or exceed $ 15 billion if the option for additional 63 aircraft is exercised in addition to the 126 units given in the tender. The three helicopters and the trainer aircraft, along with support and training packages, could be another $ five billion.

...However, it would still take a couple of months as it just won’t just be the price mentioned, but the package in terms of direct costs, support programmes, training, offsets and life cycle costs which would determine the winner. The race though is expected to be close.

On American fighters

The Air Chief observed that admittedly, the US had the best of the combat radars, weapons and systems. But then, each of the six contenders had given in writing that they would match the IAF requirements, including those for systems to be sourced from the US.

On AWACS

Air Chief Marshal disclosed that the last of the three Phalcon AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control Systems Aircraft) had arrived in India in March and deployed.
Two more AWACS mounted on IL 76 platforms had also been ordered.
The process to augment the electronic surveillance capability with aerostats – balloons with electronic surveillance radars – was continuing.

Now thats called an interview that clears the air

[Teer]

More here. Thanks to other discussion forums who picked all this up.

http://spsaviation.net/story_issue.asp?Article=736

On SAMS

The current surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems with the IAF may not be the latest, but are still very capable of thwarting challenges .... The ageing Pechora fleet will be replaced by the new generation medium range (MR)-SAM system and OSAAK System will be replaced by short-range (SR)-SAM system, which is a new generation low level quick reaction missile system being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) as a joint venture. In the interim, Spyder low-level quick reaction missile systems are being acquired .... Spyder SAM System will be operationalised next year. The indigenous, state-of-the art Akash SAM system will be inducted this year. ... by 2022, the entire air defence (AD) cover will have new generation SAM weapon systems.

Radars

The induction of medium power radars has already commenced in March this year. These radars are expected to be operational by December 2012. IAF is also replacing the existing P-18, ST-68, Indra-I and Indra-II radars with indigenously developed Rohini radars. Some Rohini radars have already been inducted and are operational. All radars will be operational by 2014-15. Apart from these, we would be inducting multi-purpose rifle sight (MPRS), low level transportable radars (LLTRs) and low level light weight radars (LLLWRs). The total percentage of legacy sensors in IAF hence would come down below 20 per cent by 2014-15.

Also mentions IACCS. On AWACS

We have received and are operating all the three AWACS and they are in the process of extensive operational employment and evaluation. The systems are working exceptionally well and to our satisfaction. Our operators are fully trained...We also plan to acquire three AEW&C Systems from DRDO in the near future. In the long run, there are definite plans to procure additional AWACS.

SP’s: Could you give the latest update on the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas development/acquisition programme? ....

CAS: As of now, we have seven LCA aircraft and these are being put through their final paces, before induction into the IAF this year. We are expecting two more limited series production aircraft to join the fleet by the third quarter this year. The LCA, in its present form, is a fourth generation aircraft and we are working with HAL to enhance its capabilities. I am hopeful that the aircraft, in its final operational clearance configuration, will be a much more potent platform, to be a ‘fourth generation plus’. .

....plus mentions uprated engine and design changes for MK2 both of which we know about.

The complete text for all sections above is in the link, don't want to have issues re:copyright

IAF now plans 6-7 squadrons of LCA MK-2 up from five earlier, like I had predicted.

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2011/0...lots-naik.html

On LCA: Naik said the LCA programme is shaping up well in the run up to the Final Operational Clearance. “We are happy that now we are finally progressing and that there could be light at the end of the tunnel. The LCA will enter into squadron service by the end of the year and then will become operational in a couple of years. Similarly, we will have six or seven operational squadrons of the LCA Mark-II,”

The incorporation of systems like the Kh-31/35, KAB series bombs, LGBS, IFR on the LCA for FOC for MK1 itself shows the IAF is fairly serious about using the aircraft as a frontline Multirole type.

Overall LCA numbers production run envisaged is now at a healthy ~48 MK1 + 120-140 MK2 for IAF plus another 2-3 squadrons of MK2 (Naval version) for Navy.

I'll wager that even these numbers will rise since the IAF usually orders 2-3 squadrons more before the line winds down. They did the same for the Jaguar and Su-30 MKI as well.

[Boom]

IAF now plans 6-7 squadrons of LCA MK-2 up from five earlier, like I had predicted.

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2011/0...lots-naik.html

you remember a certain someone here was 100% SURE that LCA would be capped at 100 ?

[Victor]

For kicks and giggles I took a stab at putting together a projected IAF force structure up to 2030.

There are gobs of assumptions made, particularly:
- The current force levels
- The attrition rate
- HAL's production capabilities

Good news is that the IAF could have 48 combat aircraft sqdns. Bad news is that it will still operate a menagerie of 8 combat aircraft types even at 2030.

[TR1]

Good graph, thanks for the work!

[Twinblade]

For kicks and giggles I took a stab at putting together a projected IAF force structure up to 2030.

There are gobs of assumptions made, particularly:
- The current force levels
- The attrition rate
- HAL's production capabilities

Good news is that the IAF could have 48 combat aircraft sqdns. Bad news is that it will still operate a menagerie of 8 combat aircraft types even at 2030.

I do not think that M2k, jaguar and mig 29 are going to be operated beyond 2025, LCA and MMRCA may see higher numbers (upto 200 each by 2025), but great job anyways victor

[quadbike]

you remember a certain someone here was 100% SURE that LCA would be capped at 100 ?

That was the original plan anyway and also the chief called Tejas a MIG 21++. May be he's a bit mellowed now as he is nearing retirement.

The increase in Tejas numbers is logical because they selected a twin engined fighter for the MRCA.

[Kramer]

IAF to participate in Exercise Anatolian Eagle with Turkey? Will that be possible when the PAF may also participate?

Our yearly engagement with Singapore continues, in addition to the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) participation in the GARUDA 2010 at France making it the first trilateral version of the exercise. Red Flag and Cope India with USA, Anatolian Eagle with Turkey and other exercises with friendly countries are all on the anvil.