INS Vikramaditya: Steaming towards Induction

[JangBoGo]

call it symbolic...



... Admiral Gorshkov emerges out from the past in a totally new avatar as INS Vikramaditya. She is a beauty

Now waiting for other carriers to arrive, IAC-I and CVF. Both are going to be pretty. It has been pretty boring seeing only American carriers all these years.

[JangBoGo]

The island and the mast... expecting experts to pick up the finer details on the structures.

[JangBoGo]

videos of the event.

lots of people had gathered for the event....but few pictures and videos are available... everyone seems to have been very excited on the sight of the ship and it is evident from the way they are running there camera all around the ship without patience..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=s9E1QQ87BZg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tiU9moHQ5n8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=oLDtQ9xwmsM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ckd8Ih3UOjE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=DKBmRbYIWuk

probably officer of INS Sindhurakshak, family & friends...

[Jō Asakura]

'941' warms-up for Viky trials (?):

http://russianplanes.net/images/to80000/079344.jpg

[JangBoGo]

Thanks to all the guys who have been providing us with FREE photos.... THANK YOU Guys!













more pictures in here..
http://anton-blinov.livejournal.com/1913.html


http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/65378.html
http://pics.livejournal.com/kuleshovoleg/pic/000k91xb
(terrified cat who came to the sea side for the first time in the hands of Oleg's mom?)
http://anton-blinov.livejournal.com/

Sergei have not yet come up with new photos after pulling out the earlier ones :-(
http://samoletchik.livejournal.com/
http://pilot.strizhi.info/
https://picasaweb.google.com/117990383296131038585

no updates from Igorr either
http://igorriw.livejournal.com/

[JangBoGo]

'941' warms-up for Viky trials (?):

http://russianplanes.net/images/to80000/079344.jpg

Interesting....
how many of them can we expect on the deck? what about the older two units, one of which was on the deck for static tests?
941, 947 will be there for sure.... can we expect the rest of the 5 MiG-29s to be delivered on the deck?

[Stonewall]

What is written on the banners????

[Prom]

Does anyone know anything about her radars? I can't work out what she has got

[TR1]

Does anyone know anything about her radars? I can't work out what she has got

Ubiquitous Fregat on top, the big set is the MR-700F.
Has a very comprehensive ECM fit as well, by the look of it.

[Prom]

So if that is Fregat, what's with the large tin can?

[Witcha]

Great eye candy! I wonder what all the former naysayers think seeing her finished and afloat.



I wonder if that crane near the ski jump is for Search and Rescue purposes or to aid in aircraft movement on deck...

[Witcha]

So if that is Fregat, what's with the large tin can?

It's the Rezistor-K4 TACAN(Tactical Communications and Navigation) system for the ship's aircraft. Pretty bulky compared to Western analogues, but I guess that's due to the 80s vintage design(It was originally designed for the Baku).

[Prom]

Thanks TR1 and Witcha.

[TR1]

It's the Rezistor-K4 TACAN(Tactical Communications and Navigation) system for the ship's aircraft. Pretty bulky compared to Western analogues, but I guess that's due to the 80s vintage design(It was originally designed for the Baku).

Maybe the size is due to the power ?

[Witcha]

Maybe the size is due to the power ?

See the Varyag and Western carriers of similar or greater size; the TACAN isn't nearly as large or visible as that big drum.

Do you guys have any idea what that crane in the above pic is for? If I'm not mistaken the Kuznetsov has a similar crane.

[obligatory]

What a pride !
Is that superstructure unusually large for a Carrier or is it just me ?

[Yama]

What a pride !
Is that superstructure unusually large for a Carrier or is it just me ?

It's fairly big, though one has to remember that Vik is smaller than US carriers or CVF's, thus its island looks proportionally bigger. Also, nukes tend to have smaller islands as they don't need large exhaust.

[Wanshan]

It's the Rezistor-K4 TACAN(Tactical Communications and Navigation) system for the ship's aircraft. Pretty bulky compared to Western analogues, but I guess that's due to the 80s vintage design(It was originally designed for the Baku).

http://www.harpoondatabases.com/ency...Entry2583.aspx

This raises some questions...

[benroethig]

What a pride !
Is that superstructure unusually large for a Carrier or is it just me ?

It is, but its a holdover from her former life as an ASW aviation cruiser.

[Obi Wan Russell]

The Kievs weren't designed as aircraft carriers, but as hybrid Cruiser/Carriers. Effectively a large missile cruiser with a two thirds length flight deck and hangar shoehorned onto the side. In this context, you have to compare the size of the island with other Soviet Cruiser designs, not western carriers to get an idea of the thought process behind it. Also the very low freeboard of the ships precludes a gallery deck between the flight deck and hangar, which although not universal on western carrier designs, does allow many compartments to be moved below flight deck level and decrease the size (ie footprint on the flight deck) of the island frreing up precious space for aircraft, which are after all the raison d' etre of the ship.

[Witcha]

http://www.harpoondatabases.com/ency...Entry2583.aspx

This raises some questions...

Yeah, I've read that. It says 2009 photos showed it without the array. Like this one.



It was installed later along with the Fregat and Podberezovik radars. The article hasn't been updated.

[JangBoGo]

Also the very low freeboard of the ships precludes a gallery deck between the flight deck and hangar, which although not universal on western carrier designs, does allow many compartments to be moved below flight deck level and decrease the size (ie footprint on the flight deck) of the island frreing up precious space for aircraft, which are after all the raison d' etre of the ship.

I think they are making use of the under-deck space...

This is the below deck space where the arrestor gear & restraining claws are installed. The picture is not giving me a correct perspective to estimate the ceiling height.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Qh1DL49l5P...ter+system.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MFxGhmTIcR...0/IMG_7260.JPG

From the below pictures we get an idea about the below deck space between the flight deck and the hanger that probably runs all along and around the hanger (& above it as well). My estimate of its height is anywhere between 6.5 - 7.5 feet. And the mess hall photos does somewhat back up my estimation.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZAtem3s9hK...0/IMG_7335.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iDAE0uA7MX...0/IMG_7338.JPG

Below is the officers mess room. From the pictures, to me, both seem to be of the same height and is on the same deck level. i.e this mess hall is either directly beneath the flight deck or under the island (more likely).
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ihqpOfLYjd...0/IMG_7261.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EnBSOgmN2J...0/IMG_7262.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZxesXFX51D...0/IMG_7263.JPG

too bad Jamwal did not upload the pictures of the supplies being stocked. I'm attaching those pictures below. From the pictures it looks like the storeroom & mess and related area is probably in the front under the flight deck...

In short what i wanted to convey based on my observation and interpretation from photos is that, almost all the available under-deck space (above & around the hanger) has been probably used to its maximum for crew housing, mess facilities, stores etc.

[JangBoGo]

Does anyone know anything about her radars? I can't work out what she has got

Below listed are systems what Pr.1143.4 Baku/Admiral Gorshkov had.... INS Vikramaditya would be having the new generation equivalents of these systems, except for those meant for anti-ship missiles & probably the AD units also.

- Sky Watch (3D Air search)
- Fly Trap (air control)) G/H-band
- Plate Steer (Air/surface search) E-band
- PK 2 150mm chaff launchers (chaff launcher)
- Bell Crown (Datalink)
- Bell Push (Datalink)
- Cage Pot (ECM)
- Вымпел (Gun control system) Bass Tilt H/I-band
- Лев (Gun control system) Kite Screech H/I/K-band
- Long Head (IFF)
- Salt Pot (IFF)
- Salt Pot (IFF)
- Bell Nip (Intercept)
- Bell Thump (Intercept)
- Wine Flask (Intercept)
- Foot Ball (Jammer)
- Аргон (missile control system) Front Door
- Подкат (missile control system) Cross Sword K-band
- Palm Frond (Navigation) I-band
- Tin Man (Optronic tracker)
- Punch Bowl (satellite link)
- Horse Jaw (sonar (active search & attack))
- Strut Pair (Surface search) F-band
- Cake Stand (TACAN)
- Towed torpedo decoy (Towed torpedo decoy)
- Horse Tail (VDS)
- Bell Strike (Weapons control)

Salyut Naval Radars
Salyut Podberezovik ET1 (in Russian)
http://www.smp-salyut.ru/images/list/podber1.pdf (English brochure)
http://militaryforces.ru/weapon-2-47-270.html

[JangBoGo]

It's the Rezistor-K4 TACAN(Tactical Communications and Navigation) system for the ship's aircraft. Pretty bulky compared to Western analogues, but I guess that's due to the 80s vintage design(It was originally designed for the Baku).

Probably it is not as simple as it looks??

In the western systems, what you see is only the Antenna part of the TACAN. The power systems, processing units etc are separate housed below. Probably in the Russian units, the big "tin can" have something more like power source (?) or processing units (?) and/or maybe just service area to check up the systems...

[JangBoGo]

Sevmash press release from 8th June 2012
http://www.sevmash.ru/rus/news/1171--lr-.html

From the article few stats.
Displacement - > 45,000t
Length -283m
Width - 59.8m
Aircraft - 30
Crew - 1,924

Some performance figure. Range (Pr.1143.4 Admiral Gorshkov)
- 13,500 nm @10 kts
- 8,000 nm @16 kts
- 7,160 nm @18 kts
- 4,000 nm @29 kts

INS Vikramaditya is likely to retain the above range and with new units might be improving upon this earlier figures.



Another roumor has arrived like the way it happened earlier with the Rafale way back when MiG-29K was contracted.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rafale-372925/

Sources say the Indian navy is considering the carrier-capable Rafale M as a possible acquisition, with a potential cost benefit to come from the air force's pending deal for 126 of the type to meet its medium multi-role combat aircraft requirement.

Already operational with the French navy and similar in size to the MiG-29K, the Rafale M could potentially be operated from India's future ski-jump-equipped domestic aircraft carriers and offer a greater operational capability than current Russian aircraft and India's Aeronautical Development Agency Tejas naval fighter.

It is probably promoted by the Dassault and its fan club media in India & RoI. Way back also rather baseless rumour was promoted by media that MiG-29K was pushed down the throat, when in reality it was the best platform available/suitable at that time for duty on board STOBAR. Rafale probably attained its full capability in 2006 only and the Naval variant on whose superiority the article is promoting it is based on the catapult assisted launch variant.

Rafale-M is specified with a heavier payload capacity of 9.5t against the 5.5t of MiG-29K in STOBAR operation. But that capability of Rafale-M is with cat assisted launch......another simple fact is Rafale-M is not certified or demonstrated its capability for STOBAR operations as of June 2012 even with any light air-defence load. Where as MiG-29K had demonstrated the capability of STOBAR operations way back in 1989 on board Tbilisi which was among the factors that made MiG-29K to be selected for INS Vikramaditya.

Now the Rafale promoters are saying that IN is looking at Rafale-M for its carriers. And that tooo without a single flight test from either a STOBAR carrier or land based facility??


btw, The two clowns have no words on their blog about the start of INS Vikramaditya trials, where as they sniff and reproduce whetever happens in US, like the C130 flight etc.

[Witcha]

^If the engine power is sufficient it may be quite possible to use the Rafale-M in STOBAR configuration. Though some additional reinforcement may be needed for the nose landing gear...

[Witcha]

I think they are making use of the under-deck space...

This is the below deck space where the arrestor gear & restraining claws are installed. The picture is not giving me a correct perspective to estimate the ceiling height.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Qh1DL49l5P...ter+system.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MFxGhmTIcR...0/IMG_7260.JPG

From the below pictures we get an idea about the below deck space between the flight deck and the hanger that probably runs all along and around the hanger (& above it as well). My estimate of its height is anywhere between 6.5 - 7.5 feet. And the mess hall photos does somewhat back up my estimation.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZAtem3s9hK...0/IMG_7335.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iDAE0uA7MX...0/IMG_7338.JPG

Below is the officers mess room. From the pictures, to me, both seem to be of the same height and is on the same deck level. i.e this mess hall is either directly beneath the flight deck or under the island (more likely).
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ihqpOfLYjd...0/IMG_7261.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EnBSOgmN2J...0/IMG_7262.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZxesXFX51D...0/IMG_7263.JPG

too bad Jamwal did not upload the pictures of the supplies being stocked. I'm attaching those pictures below. From the pictures it looks like the storeroom & mess and related area is probably in the front under the flight deck...

In short what i wanted to convey based on my observation and interpretation from photos is that, almost all the available under-deck space (above & around the hanger) has been probably used to its maximum for crew housing, mess facilities, stores etc.

Actually, this pic of the aft lift shows that the hangar is directly below the flight deck. Yes, there is some space between, but that appears to not even be the height of one man, let alone enough for the messrooms and such you suggested.


You have to remember that thanks to the original aviation cruiser design, the Vikramaditya's hangar only has about half the total length of the ship and is much smaller in terms of surface area than the ship's deck. The arrester mechanism, messrooms etc below the flight deck are probably in areas beneath the deck that are not occupied by the hangar, which would mean they are placed around, and not above, the hangar.




One thing I'm slightly dissapointed with is how many of the pics of control panels and operator stations feature old-fashioned 'steam gauge' dials instead of modern digital displays and equipment.





Does anyone know where these are used? Propulsion control equipment?

[killerbean]

^ Looks like the original 1970's equipment.

[Bager1968]

Actually, this pic of the aft lift shows that the hangar is directly below the flight deck. Yes, there is some space between, but that appears to not even be the height of one man, let alone enough for the messrooms and such you suggested.

Look at the two men standing on the hangar deck on the far side of the elevator well, and compare them to the space between the hangar ceiling ant the flight deck directly above them... it certainly looks like there is room for a full deck beneath the flight deck and above the hangar.

[obligatory]

How high is a MiG-29 ?
According to wiki 4.73 meters