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Thread: Aircraft still in it's WW2 paint?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark12 View Post
    I was intrigued by the Me110 fin at the AWM and thought I recognised it as the fin I had photographed at the IWM Lambeth in 1958 as a schoolboy. Closer study shows similarity in style but not quite the same at the peak of the swastika. Anybody know the story and where this item is now?
    There are two rudders, one at the IWM and one at the AWM, and according to The Preserved Axis Aircraft website, they both have 121 kills. One would say that they were from the same Bf110G-4 coded 3C+BA used by Major Heinz-Wolfgang Schnaufer...

    Cheers
    Peter D Evans
    LEMB Administrator
    Last edited by Peter D Evans; 1st January 2011 at 16:39. Reason: Bf110 coded added

  2. #32
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    Peter,

    Thanks for that.

    Would that be normal to paint the score on both rudders of the same 110?

    Mark

  3. #33
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    No probs Mark... with regards both rudders being marked with kills, it appears so although I can't say with 100% certainty. I see what I can find out...

    Cheers
    Peter D Evans
    LEMB Administrator

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark V View Post
    The Spitfire Mk 1 in the IWM is not at all representative of its 'original' paint - it was re-finished in 1944. However it is extremely interesting in its own right as representative of a later wartime scheme, complete with comprehensive (although not factory applied) stenciling. The same goes for the Mk 1 in the Chicago museum.
    The JU-87 which hangs with the Mk 1 at Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry, does it still wear it's original paint?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Kalina View Post
    The JU-87 which hangs with the Mk 1 at Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry, does it still wear it's original paint?
    It's thought to be largely in original paint, although some repair/restoration work had to be done on it a few years ago after it was damaged while being moved. Good photo's over on wix:

    http://www.warbirdinformationexchang...10829&start=30
    Adler Tag ("Eagle Day") 13th August 1940

  6. #36
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    [QUOTE=AdlerTag;1682975]It's thought to be largely in original paint, although some repair/restoration work had to be done on it a few years ago after it was damaged while being moved.QUOTE]

    Thanks for the information and photo link.
    This seems to confirm what Chicago museum staff told me, which was that other than a small repair to one wing tip the plane's condition was original.
    I had seen the Stuka at the museum shortly after one wing tip was damaged while the plane was being lowered for cleaning.
    The damage appeared minor and was, I heard, later repaired by the EAA.
    The plane was then displayed for a period at the EAA museum.

  7. #37
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    original paint

    P39 being preservd in Buffalo.
    http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/englis.../p39/index.htm

    Hurricane Z5252 stored in Moscow
    http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/englis...5252/index.htm

    Bf109 E-7 3523 5./JG5
    In Chino

    Ju88A-1 0119 in Norway
    http://www.ju88.net/

    He111 recovered from Norway for DTM Berlin
    http://www.ju88.net/
    Ju88 A-5 recoverd from Norway for DTM

    P47 'Dottie Mae' (albeit she is undressed - natural!).
    www.alliedfighters.com

    regards

    MS

  8. #38
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    Sid Marshall's hangar at Bankstown






    There is a Spitfire behind the Auster.
    Last edited by sandy1000; 1st January 2011 at 23:26.

  9. #39
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    Syd Marshall's hangar

    The Bf109G-6 was caught by Customs being illegally exported from Aus (probably by some unscrupulous Brit ) and is now the one displayed at the AWM.

    The Spit just visible in the last pic is MV154, Spit VIII, which ended up in UK in 1979 to become a flyer G-BKMI.

  10. #40
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    AWM 109

    According to Michael Nelmes "A Unique Flight" which details the history of all of the AWM aircraft the 109 was sold in 1963 to a member of the Illawarra Flying club at Bankstown by the AWM for 100GBP, then it passed to Sid Marshall and hung in his hanger, as shown above, until he died. It was then sold on to a "British aircraft collector" on 1979 reputedly for $100000. In the notes on the colour scheme it mentions:

    "Prior to its export attempt the aircraft was coated in a plastic protective film which was painted silver, apparently to pass it off as a Mustang. Most of this was removed by the time it came to the museum."

    The Spitfire in the Marshall hanger looks to me to be a Mark VIII/IX, with a four bladed prop, six exhaust stubs and no trace of code numbers. Is this the Col Pay/Temora example? The AWM have displayed theirs since 1955. The Japanese aircraft appears to be an Oscar.

    Like I said, fascinating thread!
    Along the edge of this airfield, the old prop-shaft airliners stand.
    Altimeters reading zero, formless memories lingering...


    theguitarsmith.com

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Growler View Post
    The Spitfire in the Marshall hanger looks to me to be a Mark VIII/IX, with a four bladed prop, six exhaust stubs and no trace of code numbers. Is this the Col Pay/Temora example?
    No Growler, as I posted above it was MV154, which was exported to UK.

    Syd had a second Spit VIII (MV239) packed in a crate in his backyard (as you would), and this was the one that was eventually sold to Col Pay in 1983 to become VH-HET (then later to Temora).

    I remember seeing an ABC TV B&W interview with Clive Caldwell in Syd's backyard, beside Bankstown aerodrome, in the early 60s with both Spits still in their crates. Then shortly afterwards, I remember Syd assembling MV154 at Bankstown in about 1963 to wheel out onto the grass for we keen photographers. Definitely happy days

  12. #42
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    AWM 109

    http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/st...rman/bf109.asp

    This shows a color photo of the Me109 on display at the Australian War Memorial/Museum.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Kalina View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AdlerTag View Post
    It's thought to be largely in original paint, although some repair/restoration work had to be done on it a few years ago after it was damaged while being moved.
    Thanks for the information and photo link.
    This seems to confirm what Chicago museum staff told me, which was that other than a small repair to one wing tip the plane's condition was original.
    I had seen the Stuka at the museum shortly after one wing tip was damaged while the plane was being lowered for cleaning.
    The damage appeared minor and was, I heard, later repaired by the EAA.
    The plane was then displayed for a period at the EAA museum.
    We discussed this in some detail including input from the Chicago museum here on WIX. http://www.warbirdinformationexchang...19089&start=15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark12 View Post
    The AWM 109.

    This must be the ex Sid Marshall 109 from Sydney.

    I had thought that in the process of Doug Arnold purchasing it and it being siezed by Australian customs as an illegal export it had ben painted silver...to perhaps resemble a P-51.

    So is that original paint we see today?

    JDK?
    Seems to have been answered already, but yes, a silver 'spraylat' like covering, so the current paint is original.

    Sandy - just to be clear, it's the Australian War Memorial - museum is not part of the name.

    Cheers,
    James K

    Looking and thinking...
    Vintage Aero Writer: Blog & Details

  14. #44
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    I think this shot I took recently of the AWM 109G shows why it's tempting for owners to repaint such aircraft to 'make them look nice', and how interesting the original colours are (and what a story they tell).

    James K

    Looking and thinking...
    Vintage Aero Writer: Blog & Details

  15. #45
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    Martlet at Yeovilton.

    I seem to remember when I was working in the paint shop in 1956-7 we did sand back this A/C to reveal the markings. I believe it was Ex. USN. Like the Hell Cat ( used by the captain at Lossiemouth, wonder where that one is ? ) I have a photo of the Martlet from Yeovilton in RN colours from that era. AL246 I think?

  16. #46
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    What about the Horsa fuselage section at London Colney. Is that in its original paint?

    Laurence


  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleeming View Post
    I seem to remember when I was working in the paint shop in 1956-7 we did sand back this A/C to reveal the markings. I believe it was Ex. USN. Like the Hell Cat ( used by the captain at Lossiemouth, wonder where that one is ? ) I have a photo of the Martlet from Yeovilton in RN colours from that era. AL246 I think?
    Interesting insight! However the FAAM Martlet - AL246 as you recall, C.No 656 - isn't ex-USN, but the earliest survivor of the type, and was destined for the French Aéronavale, one of the US machines delivered to the UK after the fall of France.

    The Hellcat (I presume the same as the one you remember?) is also in the FAAM collection.

    Dave Morris at the FAAM would probably be most interested to hear from you, and your recollections...

    Regards,
    James K

    Looking and thinking...
    Vintage Aero Writer: Blog & Details

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDK View Post
    Interesting insight! However the FAAM Martlet - AL246 as you recall, C.No 656 - isn't ex-USN, but the earliest survivor of the type, and was destined for the French Aéronavale, one of the US machines delivered to the UK after the fall of France.

    The Hellcat (I presume the same as the one you remember?) is also in the FAAM collection.

    Dave Morris at the FAAM would probably be most interested to hear from you, and your recollections...

    Regards,
    I will pass this on to Dave M when he returns to work on Tuesday

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Growler View Post
    The Japanese aircraft appears to be an Oscar.
    That;s the Oscar that went to Wanaka, NZ and returned briefly to flight with it's high speed taxiing "hop". Now in the USA, I believe.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark12 View Post
    If you mean this private one...then post WWII original NZ service livery and very weathered.

    Mark
    They have a section of rear fuselage resplendent in grey/green camouflage - ex 487 Sdn I think - I'll find a pic

  21. #51
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    The war Museum in Johannesburg has a reasonable collection.

    The Fw-190 and the Me262 look like they could be in original colours, but I will check up on that.

    Their Mosquito and their Hartebees bi-plane also look quite original to me (a bit scruffy, really).

    I will cruise past during these days to check and provide pics unless someone else knows their story by heart.

    Ivan

  22. #52
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    IWM Spitfire

    With regard to the original post.
    The IWM Spitfire is one of two in the world in a genuine wartime colour scheme, (albeit later than the BOB) and with its BoB history, makes it probably the most important Spitfire in existence. The current paint scheme, if removed can never be replaced.

    The general tatiness is very tempting for refurbishment back to Brown/Green, but by doing so the IWM would in my view be destroying the one thing that really makes it special.

    In my view, such aircraft, and the paint specifically, should be elevated by perhaps English Heritage to the status of a 'National Treasure'. Which it surely is.

    Guy

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggles of 266 View Post
    ...The IWM Spitfire is one of two in the world in a genuine wartime colour scheme, ...
    Three, surely - R6915 at the IWM, P7973 at the Australian War Memorial, and (I understand) P9306 at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry.
    In my view, such aircraft, and the paint specifically, should be elevated by perhaps English Heritage to the status of a 'National Treasure'. Which it surely is.
    It's certainly a view, and in principle I'd agree; along with other 'treasures' such as the E28/39, Alcock & Brown's Vimy and so forth.

    Regards,
    James K

    Looking and thinking...
    Vintage Aero Writer: Blog & Details

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivanotter View Post
    The war Museum in Johannesburg has a reasonable collection.

    The Fw-190 and the Me262 look like they could be in original colours, but I will check up on that.

    Their Mosquito and their Hartebees bi-plane also look quite original to me (a bit scruffy, really).

    I will cruise past during these days to check and provide pics unless someone else knows their story by heart.

    Ivan
    Both the 190 and 262 have been repainted

    Dave

  25. #55
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    Did they repaint them? bl*** agents.

    And the Hartebees as well, then?

    ivan

  26. #56
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    Isn't one side of Duxford's Bf109 in the Battle of Britain exhibition still in its original markings?
    Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit, I.

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivanotter View Post
    And the Hartebees as well, then?
    The photos provided for our Hart family book written by Alex Crawford look to me like it has been repainted postwar, some time ago though. I'd be surprised if it was still in its W.W.II fabric by now.
    James K

    Looking and thinking...
    Vintage Aero Writer: Blog & Details

  28. #58
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    If you're including bits of aircraft i.e. Me 110 fins, what about the IWM's Meteor wingtip?

    Removed from Meteor EE277 YQ-Y 616 Sqn- Dixie Dean's aircraft in which he tipped that V1 after his guns failed.

  29. #59
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    DH9, Musee de L'Air

  30. #60
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    Also a Spad covered with original fabric sewn onto new fabric there I believe, flown by a famous French ace.

    Cees

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