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Thread: China's upcoming 5th G fighter--J-20 prototype is ready

  1. #91
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    Very attractive CG indeed

    But here are some actual "official" drawings of the JXX / J-20 by Chengdu 611 Design Institute - or should I say what has been released thus far
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Eagle Talon; 20th December 2010 at 01:57.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erkokite View Post
    can you actually put these two fighters side by side and look at them rather than using random links?

    The JF-17 today really has nothing to do with Mig-33.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuadroFX View Post
    Deino
    Calm down, dude. Do you really don't know the history of the development of the J-10?
    Deino has followed PLAAF for a long time. You know nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinko View Post
    Ws-10 has passed its hardest time, and recent images confirmed that J-11B powered by Ws-10 has been in active service in PLAAF elite unites



    While new J-11 units like the twin seat J-11BS are all powered by WS-10

    I have seen all of the recent photos. J-11B projects are finally equipping with WS-10, but they still have a lot of problems. We have all been guilty of overly optimistic about the progress of Taihang over the years. Let's wait and see that this is consistent first. Clearly, Shenyang Liming is entirely abysmal in its production and that situation is not improving anytime soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuadroFX View Post
    This means that they have not been able to copy the more advanced AL-31F.
    I don't doubt that they learnt a lot from studying AL-31F, but WS-10A is a different engine.
    Visit my Chinese military blog at http://china-pla.blogspot.com/

  3. #93
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    J-20 evolution by Chengdu 611 Design Institute (?)

    It has eveolved over the years, and it does not have a delta wing planform at all.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Talon View Post
    But here are some actual "official" drawings of the JXX / J-20 by Chengdu 601 Design Institute - or should I say what has been released thus far
    so how do you know these are official?

  5. #95
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    i tell you what. if that is what the beast will look like then i say the Uk should ditch Typhoon and F35 and buy Chinese!!!

  6. #96
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    Just for comparisons

    The latest J-20 artwork
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #97
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    Evn if I again take this "only" as a fan-art ... I have to admit it is one of the nicest concept I've seen so far !!

    So let's hope ....

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Talon View Post
    The latest J-20 artwork
    oh, this one is not official?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Talon View Post
    But here are some actual "official" drawings of the JXX / J-20 by Chengdu 611 Design Institute - or should I say what has been released thus far
    If it stays like this it does look promising.

    -----JT-----

  10. #100
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    Stealth doesn't only mean smaller RCS and radar evading slanting surfaces. F-22's exhausts are recessed; making it more difficult for the heat seeking missiles to detect/chase it. J-20 needs to have recessed exhausts too.

  11. #101
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    China, Russia, India...getting stronger by the day. Meanwhile the RAF and RN become barely visible to the naked eye. God help Britain.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by stendec7 View Post
    China, Russia, India...getting stronger by the day. Meanwhile the RAF and RN become barely visible to the naked eye. God help Britain.
    Britain, unless the eurozone collapses, i am afraid will have to choose between isolation and living less comfortably and as other option, joining the "dark force" and accept Germany's victory. Because that's all about actually. Once more Germany vs Great Britain, this time in economic terms. And Germany outsmarted Britain with the invention of the euro. If you think about it, if you accept the situation, you won't be so bad after all.

    http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8249/euorder.png


    But, in any case, the East is rising, debt-free, full of competitivity, with resources and ambitions, to claim portion of the welfare of the West. This is what is happening.

    http://buttonwood.economist.com/content/gdc

    Look at the light green full of hope in the East and the "rotten apple" green of the west... As in every historic period, there is "rise and fall". We are living the "fall".

    They are the future. The West can only try to maintain in the long run a reasonably comfortable way of life, but no more. In the past, the West has used colonialism and wars to harvest the resources of the rest of the world to keep itself rich. Globalization was a good american idea to help the ailing US economy by exporting her crisis (it's tragicomical, but when Lehman Bros poped, even some greek peasants got "burnt". I couldn't help myself laughing when i saw them in the tv, and thought "who would have thought that greek farmers in some mountain village would become part of the Lehman Bros meltdown and pay part of its price") and also putting China in the global economic system sustaining part of US debt. But the price to pay, was, the transfer of production to countries with low work cost. "Unfortunately", these weren't ready to keep forever the role of "cheap workforce for the West". They used it to grow themselves and acquire know-how from the same products they were manufacturing for the West. And now they will claim their share of world's wealth, reducing the one available for the West.
    Who knows, maybe one day it will be the West the one that will be the "cheap labor" of the East.

    In older times, the West would react with some war that would ensure that the East would fall back many years and stay poor. But in today's world with nuclear weapons, this is not easy. To be honest i think at some point some major war will become inevitable, i don't know how and where, maybe it will be "proxy-wars" for control of resources.

    In the meantime, Britain could try devaluating the pound (which of course would make lose purchase power towards euro- and dollar- products and raise inflation, but would increase also exports) or... accepting the position of Germany's leutenant inside the EU. The EU won't have easy life against the East either, especially if it keeps like today with no political cohesion, but at least as a whole, it ensures a more secured market, with producing countries selling to consumer countries thanks to the common currency). In the long run, the EU will have trouble with the East too.

    Russia did it the "hard way". It collapsed, so that it can rise again thanks to the natural resources. Unfortunately the EU can't rely on huge oil and gas resources. So it will unite or perish.

    Come on, just say "jawohl", how hard can it be?
    Last edited by Aspis; 21st December 2010 at 21:45.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspis View Post
    In the meantime, Britain could try devaluating the pound
    It's been devalued. From $2 to $1.55, & from €1.50 to €1.18. It used to be cheap to visit the USA, or any Euro-zone country - but not now.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    It's been devalued. From $2 to $1.55, & from €1.50 to €1.18. It used to be cheap to visit the USA, or any Euro-zone country - but not now.
    I know, but it's still stronger than the euro... The pound in the late 80s-early 90s was a powerful currency. But now, if you want to go on like this, IMHO, you must bring it to 1:1 or less to the euro. The Germans are sweeping the entire eurotrade already... And it's not just the trade. They are taking over the consumer market too. In Greece, they are in the supermarket and mall sectors, practically not just exporting their products, but also taking the daily greek consumption and all profits end up in Berlin... Before the euro, both these sectors were held only by Greeks. The euro opened the way to the Germans, because the Greek businessmen, couldn't keep out the Germans anymore ,using the weaker drachma like they did before. The drachma was killing the Germans in competition for our market. The euro and common regulation leveled the playground for them. How are you going to compete against this with the pound still higher than the euro? They are already in a dominating position in the market. This is why Germany invented the euro... To kill the competition and allow penetration of otherwise expensive german products everwhere, secure a market area and prepare for the showdown with China.
    Last edited by Aspis; 21st December 2010 at 21:29.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspis View Post
    I know, but it's still stronger than the euro... The pound in the late 80s-early 90s was a powerful currency. But now, if you want to go on like this, IMHO, you must bring it to 1:1 or less to the euro. The Germans are sweeping the entire eurotrade already... And it's not just the trade. They are taking over the consumer market too. In Greece, they are in the supermarket and mall sectors, practically not just exporting their products, but also taking the daily greek consumption and all profits end up in Berlin... Before the euro, both these sectors were held only by Greeks. The euro opened the way to the Germans, because the Greek businessmen, couldn't keep out the Germans anymore ,using the weaker drachma like they did before. The drachma was killing the Germans in competition for our market. The euro and common regulation leveled the playground for them. How are you going to compete against this with the pound still higher than the euro? They are already in a dominating position in the market. This is why Germany invented the euro... To kill the competition and allow penetration of otherwise expensive german products everwhere, secure a market area and prepare for the showdown with China.

    it shows that the Germans didn't need the third reich to conquer Europe! they can do it with out it!! es lebe die heilige Deutschland!!!

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-7 Hotdog View Post
    it shows that the Germans didn't need the third reich to conquer Europe! they can do it with out it!! es lebe die heilige Deutschland!!!
    Of course! The means to achieve a target can vary. The important is to achieve the goal. We call it 4th reich obviously.

    http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9919/merko.jpg

  17. #107
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    Aspis, you are generalising East and West. These never existed in the terms you explained, except from cold war era of course. In fact it is the propaganda of Cold war era that East vs West concept exists. And world history started much earlier my friend.
    Last edited by Corrosion; 22nd December 2010 at 02:31.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by stendec7 View Post
    China, Russia, India...getting stronger by the day. Meanwhile the RAF and RN become barely visible to the naked eye. God help Britain.
    Why? Do you really think China, Russia, India etc. is going to invade Britain.

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Talon View Post
    But here are some actual "official" drawings of the JXX / J-20 by Chengdu 611 Design Institute - or should I say what has been released thus far
    If you look closer, it looks like a manipulated picture, very poorly manipulated
    "It won't let me put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it visually through the canopy. annoys the hell out of me."

    -Best joke ever

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
    Why? Do you really think China, Russia, India etc. is going to invade Britain.
    You dont have to "invade" to cause problems. Military impotence will prove to be a calamitous criminal folly, the bill for which will one day be presented. All I'm saying, is that Britain should maintain military capability at the highest level it can afford. There is no alternative.
    Dont you people EVER learn?

  21. #111
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    Thumbs down

    Ähhhm Aspis could we please go back to the original topic and leave this really stupid "Germany bashing-theme" ??

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  22. #112
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    Please back on topic - the JXX J-20 from Chengdu remember!?

    I second and agree with Dieno -

  23. #113
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    its a feature of this forum that people jump in on topics and pile their own conspiracies and prejudice on top of everything.

    I find it very irritating and verging on abusive.

    Still, i trust the chinese to produce a very exciting looking aircraft. Anything has to be better than the PAK-FA (in looks, in looks i'm not commenting on performance!)

  24. #114
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    I think the PAKFA looks magnificent. I dare say its the better looking 5th Gen. My guess is China does NOT have a delta canard but a design similar to the PAKFA / F-22.

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
    Aspis, you are generalising East and West. These never existed in the terms you explained, except from cold war era of course. In fact it is the propaganda of Cold war era that East vs West concept exists. And world history started much earlier my friend.
    I use the terms east and west, for practical purposes, as it would be rather inconvenient having to mention each country every time i want to make the comparison between the current "establishment" in the economic power and development and the "new" or rising powers. So i prefer the use of these 2 terms, from the point of view of the average contemporary european. I don't mean that there are 2 unified blocks somewhere. And i am aware that world history goes much back in time, but since i am talking about the future developments, i conventionally take as starting point the current situation.

    Ähhhm Aspis could we please go back to the original topic and leave this really stupid "Germany bashing-theme" ??
    It is not a Germany bashing theme. It's my honest evalutation and if you think about it, you may understand why Britain was since day 1 against the euro project and you may also find a correlation between the establishment of eurozone and the worsening in Britain's economy recently. Germany is 1st in trade balance, Britain is last in the EU. It's not that Britain is doing in the last few years something different that she was doing before... But if i have 100 euros to buy goods and i spend 90 of them to buy german goods and 10 to buy british goods, Britain will see economic damage, won't she? I 've written much more worse and in all seriousness things about Greece here to the point that some Greeks would get upset with me, but again, it's my opinion.

    If by bashing you mean the 4th reich, it's maybe a different understanding of humour. I 've read in this forum much less humourless or just plainly insulting comments about Greece, to the point of people celebrating my country's troubles, but i 've always took it like a sport and replied. We laugh with ourselves too. The "Hellenic": http://www.ethnos.gr/summary.asp?cat...pubid=46480961
    and our "last visit": http://www.ethnos.gr/summary.asp?cat...pubid=45864949

    Anyway, each person has different tollerance levels, by all means, i didn't intend to distract your attention from the main topic. It's just that i see direct connection between economy and RAF's and RN's "health".
    Last edited by Aspis; 22nd December 2010 at 15:02.

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLA-MKII View Post
    I think the PAKFA looks magnificent. I dare say its the better looking 5th Gen. My guess is China does NOT have a delta canard but a design similar to the PAKFA / F-22.
    While not a great fan of the 5th gen thing, I must agree with you, quite nice design, and very challenging even for a simple and superficial sight, I would love to see these tailplanes deleted and their LEVCONS extended forming canards...that would be a simple yet radical change, and design, would love to see such great advance for the chinese plane.

    The big question for the PAKFA is to know if it LEVCONS generate lift, if that's true, the plane should have a truly 5th gen thing, this is the 100 million question
    Last edited by over G; 22nd December 2010 at 14:56.
    "It won't let me put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it visually through the canopy. annoys the hell out of me."

    -Best joke ever

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmalaya View Post
    Still, i trust the chinese to produce a very exciting looking aircraft. Anything has to be better than the PAK-FA (in looks, in looks i'm not commenting on performance!)
    Interesting, I find the PAK-FA to be great-looking (at least the prototype looks promising).

  28. #118
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    Aspis, even when off topic your posts carry a very incisive take on broad issues and are eminently readable.
    cheers !

    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Interesting, I find the PAK-FA to be great-looking (at least the prototype looks promising).
    well some people love the X-32 ! there's no accounting for tastes. personally I like the look of PAKFA but less than that of the flankers. the mig-29 is still the most beautiful fighter ever made IMO.
    Last edited by Boom; 22nd December 2010 at 15:03.
    HAL - one step ahead of IBM

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
    ...I have seen all of the recent photos. J-11B projects are finally equipping with WS-10, but they still have a lot of problems. We have all been guilty of overly optimistic about the progress of Taihang over the years. Let's wait and see that this is consistent first. Clearly, Shenyang Liming is entirely abysmal in its production and that situation is not improving anytime soon.


    I don't doubt that they learnt a lot from studying AL-31F, but WS-10A is a different engine.
    Well, official China aviation news reported recently, SAC has handed over historically RECORD number of fighters to PLA.

    http://www.cannews.com.cn/zghkb/html...tent_11409.htm

    We know there are a large number of J11Bs manufactured in past 2years couldn't be handed over because of the WS-10 issues. now, with the massive hand-over of J11Bs by SAC to both PLAAF & PLANAF in this year ( actually with the volume from past 2-3 years that makes the record number), it's a clear sign the WS-10 powerplant issues have largely been solved. With approx 100 WS-10 engines in active service, the severity of problems collectively gathered from a pool of hundreds surely differs from problems coming from 1 or 2 lab made engine prototypes, the confidence level is different. To this scale and stage, I'd like to stress what I have said before, the WS-10 passed its most difficult stage, and on its way to final success, btw, another officail news has confirmed WS-10's FADEC version has successfully flied on the flight testbed.

  30. #120
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    Exclamation

    Well, I have no idea, the latest news is it's very close to the maiden flight

    Final taxi way run seems finished...


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