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Thread: China's upcoming 5th G fighter--J-20 prototype is ready

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    China's upcoming 5th G fighter--J-20 prototype is ready

    Jane's reported today in the article: Russia, China push fifth-generation fighter programmes to meet year-end milestones that the prototype of Chinese developed 5th Generation fighter, used to be called J-xx, is ready. 2 airframes have been constructed. my pick is the J-20 prototype will make maiden flight anytime from now onwards.

    From Janes:

    ...Meanwhile, rumours have emerged from China's Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) and the adjoining Aircraft Plant 132 that a Chinese-developed fifth-generation fighter prototype may also fly by the end of the year. Reportedly, two airframes - numbered 2001 and 2002 - have been assembled at the plant.

    According to Russian industry sources, the programme - sometimes referred to as 'J-20' - is a joint design effort between CAC and the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, with Chengdu taking the lead on the development.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    LET THE GUESS BEGIN@!!



    EDIT ON 30-12-2010
    JANE’S REPORT 3 WEEKS AGO SO FAR GOT IT RIGHT, THE J-20 PROTOTYPE’S NO IS INDEED 2001. WELL, I DO BELIEVE THERE IS 2002 AS PREVIOUSLY REPORTED.
    ASTER MERE 3 WEEKS GUESSING, THE OUTCOME IS THERE, AND THE COMPARISON OF THE CG POSTED 3 WEEKS AGO FAIRLY MATCHES THE REAL THING.
    AND LET ALONE WITHIN THE SAME SHORT PERIOD, THE HITRATE OF THIS THREAD HAS REACHED ALMOST A QURTER MILLION, WELL DONE
    BEFORE CLOSURE OF THIS REMARKABLE THREAD, LET US LOO FORWARD TO THE J-20’S MAIDEN FLIGHT

    Last edited by Pinko; 30th December 2010 at 04:18. Reason: ADD NEW STUFF

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    Looks like a Raptor with fat ar$e.

    Now we will have yet another contender in the X vs Y threads. The speculation about its performance, the news leaks, whether the F35s will be enough for it and so on, for a wonderful new year in this forum.

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinko View Post
    Jane's reported today in the article: ....
    Sorry, but Jane's "re"-reports only things which are said (or rumoured) since months in several Chinese forums, esp. Huitong posted this long ago.

    But anyway You are correct .. let tzhe speculation begin .... but I hope for something like that!

    Deino
    Last edited by Deino; 26th April 2012 at 16:23.
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    Sorry, but Jane's "re"-reports only things which are said (or rumoured) since months in several Chinese forums, esp. Huitong posted this long ago.

    But anyway You are correct .. let tzhe speculation begin .... but I hope for something like that!

    Deino
    Do note Jane's also quoted Russian source. There is still high chance that the prototype again may be powered by Russian engine, whcih makes russian source somehow reliable.

    As for your "rumours" commenet, hey, I got a track record of starting "rumours" in this board . as early as 2004/05, we were speculating WS-10A, J11B, WZ-10 etc. any of them is NOT a rumour then?! but today, no one will think it is again. because it's reality. today, the chinese information channel is much open compared to 10 years again, the PLAAF depute chief has already confirmed IOC of J-20 by 2017, that's NOT a rumour and what we can expect now really perfectly fits the timeframe of the roadmap

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinko View Post
    Do note Jane's also quoted Russian source. There is still high chance that the prototype again may be powered by Russian engine, whcih makes russian source somehow reliable.

    As for your "rumours" commenet, hey, I got a track record of starting "rumours" in this board . as early as 2004/05, we were speculating WS-10A, J11B, WZ-10 etc. any of them is NOT a rumour then?! but today, no one will think it is again. because it's reality. today, the chinese information channel is much open compared to 10 years again, the PLAAF depute chief has already confirmed IOC of J-20 by 2017, that's NOT a rumour and what we can expect now really perfectly fits the timeframe of the roadmap
    Agreed ... and (sorry for being misleading !) for me these are NO rumours - like You said - that these projects are all real. The only thing maybe regarded a rumour is "when" and "maybe even this year".

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

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    I expect the J-20 to use DSI intakes, and look alot more familiar in design than something radically different.

    It is Chinese Aviation afterall, with a record of adopting designs that are tried and true.

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    Ain't you worried about Bulgarians order J-xx in their bid to take over the world.
    Love Planes, Live Planes

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    Quote Originally Posted by quadbike View Post
    Ain't you worried about Bulgarians order J-xx in their bid to take over the world.
    Bulgaria is unlikely able to afford a J-xx, even at Chinese knock down prices.
    I can also assure you that Bulgaria has no plans to take over India if you are worried about.

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    still no picture ?

    the chinese seem to be even more secretive than the russians !
    HAL - one step ahead of IBM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom View Post
    still no picture ?

    the chinese seem to be even more secretive than the russians !
    Or, you know....the program isn't nearly as close to flying as people seem to believe.

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    Be patient as usual, no pic doesn’t mean no flight.




    J-10’s 1st flight in 1998, only 2001 we had its 1st image, even though still been called “PSed” this time round, I don’t think it will take that long, but will still be “lagging”.

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    ^Pinko, even in Aug 2003 J-10 was still being referred to as photoshopped in some quarters.
    Blimey, somethings are not forgotten easily.:-D
    Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes

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    Chengdu J-14 / J-20 still image from short video

    Well here it is at last - I hope - of the long awaited stealth fighter from China's Chengdu (611) is already reported to have flown for the first time on December 5, 2010. I make no claims here people, just reporting. Those that are interested should watch the video on You Tube
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Talon View Post
    Well here it is at last - I hope - of the long awaited stealth fighter from China's Chengdu (611) is already reported to have flown for the first time on December 5, 2010. I make no claims here people, just reporting. Those that are interested should watch the video on You Tube
    you knew full well that its not real, thats why instead of posting a link to the youtube video, you uploaded a screenshot in a very small size, so its more difficult to scrutinize.

    here's the youtube video. posting the link much faster than what you did
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SNXjajh8sg

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    Well, I have zero feeling what that J-20 could look like, but I like the flankerized F-22/35 clone in the first picture here better
    "Distiller ... arrogant, ruthless, and by all reports (including his own) utterly charming"

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    are we expecting top level stealth like F-22 or more realistic level like that of the B1B-ie smaller than a aircraft of that size would show on RADAR?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Talon View Post
    Well here it is at last - I hope - of the long awaited stealth fighter from China's Chengdu (611) is already reported to have flown for the first time on December 5, 2010. I make no claims here people, just reporting. Those that are interested should watch the video on You Tube
    Thanks for the wonderful cgi.

    /s

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinko View Post


    I like that picture. It might as well say:

    No Camera Video In Airfield Area!
    But You Can Take A Run Across The Airfield And Take A Picture Of Our "Secret" Military Aeroplane Because We Have No Fence Seperating The Public From It!
    Just Don't Get Caught Because You'll Disappear!'
    Have A Nice Day, Please Come Again!'
    P.S. Please Accept Our Apology, One Of Our Personnel Has Spelt The Word; 'Video' Wrong! He Has Now Dissapeared


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Talon View Post
    Well here it is at last - I hope - of the long awaited stealth fighter from China's Chengdu (611) is already reported to have flown for the first time on December 5, 2010. I make no claims here people, just reporting. Those that are interested should watch the video on You Tube
    Are you serious?

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    What does it use for an engine? AL-31? WS-10?

    The Chinese had problems developing the WS-10 despite having AL-31s and CFM-56 cores to reverse engineer. I seriously doubt they are close to having a prototype WS-15 ready for flight.

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    Well firstly the WS-10 has a different configuration to the AL-31 - 3 fan and 9 compressor stages with 1 high-pressure and 2 low pressure stages vs 4 fan and 9 compressor stages with 2 single-staged turbines. In respect of the CFM-56 whilst its core is similar to the GE F-101 DFE and GE-F110
    it is a civil engine with different tolerances and material specifications.

    Both the AL-31 and CFM-56 along with whatever data they have found would help with WS-10 development but it is still a significant technology jump for China, remember the most sophisticated millitary Turbofan they have worked on was the RR SPEY/WS-9.

    I would think for any J-XX testing program AL-31 would be the safest option but the WS-10 is reaching a point of reliability to support a flight test program. Noticeably now Shenyang has the WS-10B actually entering service with the J-11 and a higher thrust WS-10G in development they are in a far better position then they were a few years ago.

    Actually the WS-10G as well as supporting the J-11 and J-15 program might be intended as a lower risk backup solution for the WS-15 engine intended for J-XX. China has a pattern of developing low and high risk solutions for many of its defence programs.
    Last edited by Fedaykin; 11th December 2010 at 19:54.
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    CGI

    Quote Originally Posted by Erkokite View Post
    Thanks for the wonderful cgi.

    /s
    Actually its a very well done computer animation of the aircraft in flight, whereas a simple CGI is still - but thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EELightning View Post
    P.S. Please Accept Our Apology, One Of Our Personnel Has Spelt The Word; 'Video' Wrong! He Has Now Dissapeared
    Sheesh!! I'm glad you're not Chinese, EE, I think you might end up as 'Disappeared'.

    You guys know that what the Chinese refer to as 5G is everyone else's 4G, right? (no poo-poo intended- not yet anyway).
    Might explain clue-less reporting resulting in hysteria.

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    otaku, it's the reverse everyone else' 5G = china 4G

    by that logic this is 6th gen !
    HAL - one step ahead of IBM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
    ...
    You guys know that what the Chinese refer to as 5G is everyone else's 4G, right? (no poo-poo intended- not yet anyway).
    Might explain clue-less reporting resulting in hysteria.
    No, exactly the other way around !

    A fighter "everyone's calling a 5G" is in Chinese definition a 4G type.

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom View Post
    by that logic this is 6th gen !
    They counterfeited something from the future?! Man, these guys are good!!

    But seriously, let me know when something 'strongly resembling' a 1.44 in PLAAF markings splutters into the sky. Meantime, I think I'll disappear- hold on EE!! I'm-a-comin'!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Talon View Post
    Actually its a very well done computer animation of the aircraft in flight, whereas a simple CGI is still - but thanks.
    here's some more real leaked images. its cg but its based on the real thing.. :diablo:

    /s



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us




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    Cockpit display


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    What engine to power J-20, which touches some most vulnerable area of Chinese aviation industries. Officially, the WS-15 is still the final powerplant for upcoming Chinese 5th generation fighter jet, as illustrated by below chart. The image at upmost right is the core engine of WS-15.



    Since this chart has been existing for quite some time now, the prototype of Ws-15 should be ready by now, possible finished or undergoing high altitude tests to this point of time.

    WS-10 official max thrust is 122kn, on par with that of AL31F, even though the WS-10 reached > 130kn during endurance test, probably so that it can be conveniently exchanged with AL31F on J11s. be mindful, the Russians have stopped any AL31F for J11s, WS-10 is the only choice, and it’s mature now with massive production and consistent J11Bs/J11BSs being produced and inducted .

    Now there’s improved Ws-10G, with FADEC, 1st customer most likely to be PLANAF’s J15 for better TWR needed during aircraft carrier’s taking off. However, as J-15 itself is in prototype stage, unlikely, Ws-10G could be mature at present and being installed on J20 prototype.

    The j-20 main contractor, CAC has a close working relation with Russia's Salyut, Salyut secured AL-31F contract from Saturn because of Chinese order ( CAC’s J10), and developed improved AL-31F-m1, m2 , m3 etc, solely for CAC initially, although later the Al31F-M1 became the standard powerplant of Su27SM. The AL31F-M1 reaches 13 ton max thust, slightly higher than wS-10 current allowed max thust . M2 reaches 14 tons, currently the best can be offered by Salyut to CAC, I suspect the Al-31F-M2 could have been installed in the J-20 prototype.

    But nevertheless, J-20 will be powered by Ws-15 turbofan, yes, I have to prioritize the official news, don’t we. For some more details on core engine of WS-15, we actually had some discussion 4 years ago:

    http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...t=pinko&page=8
    Last edited by Pinko; 12th December 2010 at 03:55.

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    Why would the cockpit display for a 5th gen Chinese fighter be in English?
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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