Avro Avian Rebuild

[Hairyplane]

Hi all,

A fascinating thread.

At the risk of offending you by a slight thread drift.....

I am fortunate enough to fly behind 2 of the worlds sole flying examples of AS Lynx 4M in the Avro Tutor G-AHSA and Mongoose 3C in the Hawker Tomtit G-AFTA, both part of The Shuttleworth Collection here in the UK.

Both machines are a joy to fly and will hopefully thrill our visitors for many years to come. Or maybe not.......

we have very few engine spares, especially for the Lynx.

The ideal scenario is to assemble enough spare parts to build a spare engine for each.

I bet someone, somewhere has got one of these fine old engines under their bench and would be willing to either sell or donate it to The Trust. Any parts would of course be gratefully received.

Fingers crossed!

Best regards

HP

[Avro Avian]

G'Day Hairyplane,

Have the Shuttleworth engineers ever accessed any drawings or other information from the Armstrong Siddeley archives at the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust?

Best regards,

Paul

[Hairyplane]

Hi Paul,

I don't know the answer to that but will ask John Munn our Chief Engineer.

The trouble is, making new parts v overhauling old carries with it a real challenge to gain the necessary Approvals.

Cylinders and pistons are fairly straightforward but crankcases and shafts etc. would be difficult and expensive.

Wouldn't it be fantastic to see a post on here that points us in the direction of useable engines/ parts?? Fingers crossed.

Also.....I'm still hoping that someone will find a cache of Argus AS10c engine parts for my Storch! Siemens SH14 parts would be welcome too.

Best wishes from 'Up Over'.

Peter

[Avro Avian]

G'Day Peter,

Thanks for the reply. In regards to drawings, I was thinking in terms of high wear items like pistons, cylinder, valve gear, bearings, etc. Unfortunately, I have drawn a blank with investigations into Cirrus drawings, as the engines I have are missing quite a few vital parts. However, I am in the process of solving that problem....
I'm afraid I can't help you with Argus or Siemens parts, but you never know what turns up...

Best regards,

Paul

[Avro Avian]

Hi All,

I have just bought this Hawker branded fuel gauge....



I have been led to believe that it was used in a Hawker Demon, but I have not been able to find any pictures or references to prove it. Would the brains trust here be able to tell me anything about it? It's available for trading also...

Paul

A gratuitous bump! I still haven't been able to figure out what this Petrol Gauge was fitted to. Can anyone here help?

[Graham Adlam]

Thats a very nice piece in the same stlye as WWI gauges service date of 1927, I dont know what it is but I know a man who might will send him the link!

[Graham Adlam]

Here is what my friend had to say


"The instrument is a fuel gauge and was popular in the ‘20s. I have two of these, one marked Supermarine and the other marked Vickers. This one, with Hawker on it is probably from a small ‘airliner’ type of aeroplane of the period, or small military bomber/torpedo aeroplane for example. I have never seen these in Air Ministry lists or manuals, so probably more for the civilian market. Other than that, I have no further clue – except it may be worth looking at Hawker types of the period and seeing which aircraft had a 50 gallon fuel tank?"

[Roborough]

Hi All:
Avro Avian
I'm sure you know that there are at least 2 in Canada. Both Mk1VM's with Genet Majors & part of a batch of about 30 assembled in Ottawa in the early '30's for the RCAF, although most of them quickly moved to some of the newly forming flying clubs.
One is with the Canada Aviation Museum in Ottawa and was recently restored by the Reynolds Museum, Wetaskawin, Alberta, who has the 2nd one on display.
They may well be able to help.
Sorry, I tried to attach a recent pic of the Ottawa on but the technology defeated me!

[John Shipman]

My father knew Flt. Lt. R L R Atcherley (Batchy). He was a test pilot at the Royal Aircraft Establishment and kept his green, private Avro Avian Sports monoplane, G-AAYW, in our hangar and my father was asked to look after the engine. Batchy had recently returned with G-AAYW from a Middle East posting where he had gained some notoriety and also some disciplinary measures against him. The Avro Avian was specially built for air racing and the machine was given to Batchy for £200 which was his share of the 1929 King’s Cup Air Race prize money. The engine was handed over by the makers on “extended loan”. The aeroplane was kept for nine years until it had to be abandoned at the time of the Munich crisis. I have further notes and some pictures if you are intrested -please let me know. John Shipman. E mail:j.m.shipmanATntlworld.com (replace "AT" with "@")

[Avro Avian]

Hi All,

My mystery Hawker fuel gauge has been identified by my very helpful friends at the Shuttleworth Collection as probably coming from a Hawker Woodcock. It is the right date and correct fuel capacity (52 Gallons). The markings "Repaired in Workshop No. 1.S.D.K." probably refers to No. 1 Stores Depot, Kidbrooke, which also fits in the time frame. How and why this fuel gauge ended up in Australia is another mystery, as I have been assured it has been here for quite some time. It's available for trade, if anyone is interested.

Roborough: I am aware of the two Genet Avians on display in Canada . They both have the five cylinder AS Genet fitted, as opposed to the seven cylinder AS Genet Major 1a that was fitted to mine (the big block racing mod ). Mr Byron Reynolds has very kindly sent me a pile of photos taken during the restoration of CF-CDQ, which is proving very helpful. What a beautiful machine! I would still like to see your photo though. Try a PM.

Best regards,

Paul

[Avro Avian]

G'Day John,

The Avian Monoplane has intrigued me. I wonder how much was changed from the standard Avian to produce this machine and if any drawings or pictures survived of its construction. I have sent you an email.

Best regards,

Paul

[aeronut 2008]

Talking of the Avian I was given these 7 booklets recently.














I can scan them if they are any use.

[Avro Avian]

Hi aeronut 2008,

Scanned copies of those publications would be most appreciated, especially seeing that I have only poor quality photo copies of the top three publications. A Cirrus Mk III manual will be very useful too.

Best regards,

Paul

[Avro Avian]

Hi All,

It's been a little while since the last post, but I have been waiting patiently for a couple of things to appear. First of all, about a fortnight ago, a long awaited shipment of spruce arrived for the Mk III fuselage and two sets of spars for tailplanes and elevators. When the humidity here drops to acceptable levels, I'll be able to have a gluing frenzy!
Secondly, yesterday I was able to pick up a large crate with no less than four Cirrus engines, of varying degrees of completeness, inside.
Out of these I should be able to build one airworthy engine and have a good supply of spare parts.
Here is the crate on the back of a borrowed ute....



...and unpacked and placed on shelving in the "toy box".



Unfortunately, there were no prop hubs in this lot, so if anyone out there has leads on one, I would love to hear from you.

I am still looking for magneto switches, airspeed indicators, 0-60 psi oil pressure gauges and a set of Canadian Tigermoth wheels and brakes.

Best regards,

Paul

[Avro Avian]

Hi All,

Has anyone been able to source aircraft grade mild steel or T-45 tubing in the following sizes?

7/8” OD x 0.028” W/T

7/8” OD x 0.036” W/T

7/8” OD x 0.056” W/T

7/8” OD x 0.080” W/T

3/4” OD x 0.028” W/T

3/4” OD x 0.036” W/T

5/8” OD x 0.028” W/T

1/2” OD x 0.028” W/T

5/16” OD x 0.056” W/T

1” OD x 0.056” W/T

1 1/16” OD x 0.036” W/T

1 1/16” OD x 0.056” W/T

1 1/2” OD x 0.036” W/T

The American 4130 CrMo tubing has a minimum wall thickness of 0.035" these days, so if I went down that path, the fuselage frame is going to end up heavier. I am also keen to preserve originality, if possible.

Best regards,

Paul

[Avro Avian]

Bump. ^^^^^^ Can anyone help?

[sopwith.7f1]

Don't know about Aus, but try googling pfa metals, they have a varied range of T45 etc.

Bob T.

[Avro Avian]

Looks like their selection of T-45 tube sizes pretty much mirrors the American sizes.
Thanks anyway Bob!

[Stan Smith]

Ref Post #74. Canadian Tiger Moth wheels (and Fox Moth also) are standard Pommey (Dunlop) Tiger wheels with a brake drum insert. The brake units are standard Bendix items

[Avro Avian]

Thanks Stan. Any clues as to where I may be able to source these wheels and brakes?

[avro cadet]

Hi Paul, Tiger size wheels with brake drum inserts and 7 inch bendix brakes are used on the Cadet, I have lots of spares plus all the factory drawings. Howard

[Avro Avian]

Thanks Howard, I'll drop you a line.

[Chitts]

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/vi...y/garden+plane

Chanced upon this jolly piece of film from 1953.

[Avro Avian]

What a ripper Chitts!
The Avian featured is G-ABEE, which I believe was the last British registered Avian flying and was withdrawn from use due to "fuselage corrosion" in the '60s. I note with some amusement in this clip, the PIC climbing into the front seat. The Avian, like most Moths, is normally flown from the back....

[Baldeagle]

Probably wanted the cameraman in the back so he could shoot over the pilot's shoulder-



-

[FJaques]

I am Frederic Jaques, the son of Capt. F.C. R. Jaques who imported two Avians to Australia in 1927. VH-UFZ was found and restored by Lang Kidby of Brisbane in 1998, taken to the UK and he flew it solo back to Australia to recreate the flight of Bert Hinkler's in 1928.
He sold the Avian to Greg Herrick in the USA and it is now in his private collection.
I feel sure that if you contacted Lang, he could possibly assist you with your restoration.
Frederic (Deric) Jaques.
raf557@comcast.net

G'Day Boys and Girls,

I have the mortal remains of Avro Avian Mk III VH-UHC (G-AUHC) that I am currently rebuilding to fly here in Oz. Not much remains of the wooden structure, but I do have a number of the metal fittings, the main undercarriage (including wire wheels) and a large number of original factory drawings. I also have two very incomplete ADC Cirrus Mk II engines.
I am looking for the following for this project:

A complete ADC or ACE Cirrus Mk II
Is there such thing as a parts catalog and overhaul manual for this engine? I have a service manual already. Do drawings exist to support this engine?
A 1st World War Mk V Oil Pressure Guage
Avro type turnbuckles - 4 and 5mm
Magneto switches like this, or at least a part number:


Arthur Withy photo

[Avro Avian]

G'Day Deric,

Thanks for dropping a line. I have spoken to Lang Kidby and unfortunately for me, all the paperwork, etc he had on the Avian went to the USA with the aeroplane. I have also spoken to Greg Herrick and whilst very helpful, it appears that all the drawings he had, have gone "MIA" at some stage. Not to worry; I have more than one avenue to chase for what I need.

Best regards,

Paul

[Chitts]

The New England Air Museum had or have an ADC Cirrus Mk2 for sale very recently. There was a thread about their engines for sale a couple of weeks back.

[Avro Avian]

Yes, I had emailed them about the Cirrus. I have enough bits here to rebuild it.
Unfortunately, I haven't had a reply, no doubt due to the large response to their ad.

[Avro Avian]

Hi All,

Here is the latest arrival...




Another Cirrus MkIII!
I acquired this one from Idaho, USA, in May this year and it has taken a while to get to sunny Brisvegas. I desperately needed the prop hub...
Needless to say, I have a good supply of Cirrus engines and parts now.

I am still looking for an Armstrong Siddeley Genet Major, 6A/625 magneto switches and/or Twinob mag switches and Mk IVa Airspeed Indicators.

Best regards,

Paul