Indian Air Force - News And Discussion #14

[quadbike]

Beechcraft T-6 Military Trainer for Indian Air Force field evaluation trials

Hawker Beechcraft Corporation’s (HBC) T-6 military trainer will come to India later this month to take part in field evaluation trials with the Indian Air Force officials as part of its competition for a new basic trainer, a HBC release said.

More here....defenseworld.net

[quadbike]

India world's largest combat aircraft buyer: Report

STOCKHOLM: India is the largest buyer of combat aircraft in the world , with the US topping the list of sellers, a leading international think tank has said.

According to a report released Wednesday by Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), a total of 50 countries bought 995 warplanes during 2005-09, Xinhua reported.

India purchased 115 combat planes, the largest buyer in the world during the period, the Swedish institute said in the report.

"India, the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Israel are by far the largest recipients of combat aircraft. Together, these three countries accounted for almost one-third of all imports of combat aircraft between 2005 and 2009," the report said.

The US and Russia are by far the largest suppliers of combat aircraft accounting for two-thirds of all warplanes delivered during the period.

full article

[Kramer]

LSP-5 to fly anytime soon as per Ananth Krishnan's blog..

The fifth platform from Tejas LSP block (LSP-5) will kiss the sky any time now. Team Tejas seems to have sorted out last-minute issues and the flight might take place any time now, weather-permitting. "The flight is expected any moment. We are closing in on," says a source.
The flight readiness review board is said to have given the go-ahead on November 11, barring some test-points. "All we need is a clear sky," says the official.

[Sens]

India world's largest combat aircraft buyer: Report



full article

That SIPRI articles are questionable, whatever year or period you choose you will get different results. At least when the home-market production is ignored.
The general trend is a shrinking of AF inventories.

[matt]

DRDO Flies Nishant With Structural Health-Monitoring System

Oct 29, 2010



By Anantha Krishnan M.
BENGALURU, India

SNIP------
ADE and India’s National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) jointly developed the SHM technology, with assistance from a foreign agency.

DRDO says analysis algorithms have been developed to predict the onset of failures, which would be perfected using the data obtained from the Kolar trials. The techniques will avoid routine grounding of the aircraft for inspections, bringing the UAV closer to “on-condition maintenance” by detecting failures before they occur.

“This is a new paradigm of testing for monitoring the health of a flying platform in real-time,” says Dr. Prahlada, DRDO’s chief controller for research and development. “It is a significant development as 80% of the systems were developed in-house.” In addition to UAVs, the SHM technology will be used for manned platforms such as the Light Combat Aircraft, Medium Combat Aircraft and Fifth-Generation Fighter, he says. SHM techniques also are expected to cut down operational costs.

SNIP----------

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...&headline=DRDO Flies Nishant With Structural Health-Monitoring System

As impressive as it may sound have to wonder why they went for SHM on the LCA, an aircraft whose entry into service was soo time critical to the IAF.

Indian Air Force Sees Marginal Change At HAL

Oct 28, 2010



By Anantha Krishnan M.
BENGALURU, India
Snip---

“The product support has been one major area of concern and there have been very little visible results from HAL,” the official says. However, “on the ground there have been no changes in the last six months, [so] we are adopting a wait-and-watch strategy, considering the slight signs of progress.”

Saddled with internal squabbles and leadership turnover, HAL today has too many projects to handle, IAF officials believe. “Be it the upgrade programs [MiG 21, MiG 27] or the production under license [Hawk, Su-30 MKI], we have expressed our concerns,” the official says.

The IAF has no option but to put up with HAL’s issues, which have become a topic of debate within the Indian media. “It’s not about overnight results,” the official says. “As things stand now, we will have to depend on HAL for serviceability, spares and other issues. We are confident that the promises made by HAL will translate into results.”

The penultimate day of the conference, Oct. 28, saw debates on operational philosophies specific to the IAF’s maritime operations. India’s Defense Secretary Pradeep Kumar and IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik are said to have agreed upon the necessity for greater synergy between the defense ministry and IAF.

“Critical issues related to acquisition, infrastructural development and budget support were discussed during the interaction,” the IAF said in a statement. “The concluding day will have discussions on various maintenance and HR issues.”

Rock and a hard place...

[Kramer]

India's first modified Embraer ERJ-145 for the indigenous AEW&C program is scheduled for its first flight early in 2011 and the delivery will be made in late 2011.

this modified ERJ-145 will feature better electrical generation and cooling systems as compared to earlier ERJ-145s used for the Brazilian Carabas and Greek Erieye systems, as per Embraer. It will also feature an IFR system with additional internal fuel tanks to allow inflight refuelling to increase range and endurance.

Flight Global link

[matt]

Anyone know what is happening with the Army's helicopter competitions? Although not as glamorous as a jet fighter in Indias current situtaion you have to wonder if these aircraft are not more significant in fighting terrorists in the north and the rebels in the east.

Who is currently in the competition and who is out?

[matt]

India's first modified Embraer ERJ-145 for the indigenous AEW&C program is scheduled for its first flight early in 2011 and the delivery will be made in late 2011.

this modified ERJ-145 will feature better electrical generation and cooling systems as compared to earlier ERJ-145s used for the Brazilian Carabas and Greek Erieye systems, as per Embraer. It will also feature an IFR system with additional internal fuel tanks to allow inflight refuelling to increase range and endurance.

Flight Global link

Wonder when the radars and command and control units will be integrated into the aircraft. I presume that the radars etc are already manufactured/assembled?

[Austin]

Anyone know what is happening with the Army's helicopter competitions? Although not as glamorous as a jet fighter in Indias current situtaion you have to wonder if these aircraft are not more significant in fighting terrorists in the north and the rebels in the east.

Who is currently in the competition and who is out?

The final fight was between Eurocopter Fennec and Kamov Ka-226T , the trials are over and the result is awaited , both chopper looks good but I find Ka-226T more versatile.

If both meet the trial parameter the L1 bidder will win.

[matt]

The final fight was between Eurocopter Fennec and Kamov Ka-226T , the trials are over and the result is awaited , both chopper looks good but I find Ka-226T more versatile.

If both meet the trial parameter the L1 bidder will win.

Cheers mate, I can see what you mean by the Ka-226T being more versatile, hope the IA go for it.

So what is happening about the purchase of 22 apaches, i have been hearing of that on the outskirts of other news but no mention of a attack aircraft competition.

If the IA could I would rather that they get a modernised version of a attack helicopter with troop carrying capability... along with the traditional anti tank type apaches, havoks and alligators..

Does the Indian Army operate its own airwing? Some cheaper to operate tucanos or Ov-x's could be of use up in the north..

[Austin]

matt , the trials of Apache and Mi-28NE is going on , last i heard Apache has completed some part of the trials while Mi-28NE has yet to reach india to start the trials.

[Witcha]

IMO the best overall candidate for the Indian requirements would have been the Ka-50-2 'Erdogan' that was offered for the Turkish tender. It was more capable than the Mi-28N, yet with the tandem-seat configuration the IAF prefers as opposed to the Ka-52's side-by-side seating. It's a pity it wasn't offered for this tender(I'm guessing the Russians thought offering a losing design would have affected their chances).

As for the light helicopter tender, I'm aware that the Ka-226T looks poised to win, especially given it'll be the cheaper option, and it makes me uneasy. We're already buying hundreds of Mi-17V5s for the medium helicopter requirements; the IAF should try to wean itself away from Russian suppliers in this area.

[DrPepper]

other than because they are Russian explain why.

I'm British, so b4 yu go on about "us Russians" don't. Unless you have a good reason...which you may or may not have...there is no reason why India shouldn't buy Russian

[Austin]

As for the light helicopter tender, I'm aware that the Ka-226T looks poised to win, especially given it'll be the cheaper option, and it makes me uneasy. We're already buying hundreds of Mi-17V5s for the medium helicopter requirements; the IAF should try to wean itself away from Russian suppliers in this area.

Well if Ka-226T wins it will win on its merit and cost , just because it is Russian does not make it bad.

The Mi-17V5 won on its merit in IAF , well the Mi-17 got praise during Afgan ops for its hot and high performance and US is buying more Mi-17 over its own S-70 based on pure merit and performance.

[Witcha]

I just feel we should diversify our helicopter acquisitions, that's all. Similar to the arguments for not buying MiG-35s in the MMRCA.

[Sens]

Well if Ka-226T wins it will win on its merit and cost , just because it is Russian does not make it bad.

The Mi-17V5 won on its merit in IAF , well the Mi-17 got praise during Afgan ops for its hot and high performance and US is buying more Mi-17 over its own S-70 based on pure merit and performance.

The Mi-17s were bought to be operated by the Afghanians, which had Mi's many years before.

[J-20 Hotdog]

IMO the best overall candidate for the Indian requirements would have been the Ka-50-2 'Erdogan' that was offered for the Turkish tender. It was more capable than the Mi-28N, yet with the tandem-seat configuration the IAF prefers as opposed to the Ka-52's side-by-side seating. It's a pity it wasn't offered for this tender(I'm guessing the Russians thought offering a losing design would have affected their chances).

but why?
It didn't go beyond Mock up form because Prime Minister Erdogan did not like the Erdogan.

since it seems the Mi-28N is being adopted as the main helicopter by the Russians, it would be safer to offer that instead since it'll probably have a more reliable supply line.

still, not sure why the Russians opted the Havoc over Hokum. anyone care to explain? could the negative G issue not be resolved?

[TR1]

still, not sure why the Russians opted the Havoc over Hokum. anyone care to explain? could the negative G issue not be resolved?

Don't ask that question. A Metallica vs. Megadeath, Ak-47 vs M-16 type rage fest will ensue.

On the subject though, Ka-50/52 has not been completely abandoned. It is in production actually...

Also, K-50-2 more capable than the Mi-28N? Deeeeebatable. Not to mention Kamov doesn't even have the Ka-52 completely down in 2010, almost 2011, let alone that mockup that the Erogan was. Can't compare something that is being actively built, delivered, and perfected, to something that died before ever existing.

[J-20 Hotdog]

like I said, I pretty much agree with you. It makes sense the Mi-28N is offered since there's more orders for it and it has the potential to have more of a secure future for it. but just curious to what the technical faults of the Ka-52 over Mi-28N are..

[Boom]

I seem to remember the ka-50 had serious reliability issues with its rotors ?

[Witcha]

Didn't the Russians ultimately pick the Mi-28 over the Ka-50/52 because it was cheaper?

[quadbike]

Aroor's excellent Article on the AMCA

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/11...ian+Defence%29

[TR1]

Didn't the Russians ultimately pick the Mi-28 over the Ka-50/52 because it was cheaper?

No. It had much more to do with performance, layout, other factors.

And this is coming from a Ka-50 fanboy.

[Kramer]

Aroor's excellent Article on the AMCA

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/11...ian+Defence%29

he doesn't have the brains to write all that. Its taken from a DRDO report and with a few words of his own.

[Kramer]

the third Russo-Israeli A-50EI Phalcon AWACS for India going through its paces in Tel-Aviv. cross post from BRF.

image 1

[Kramer]

Kemrock and HAL to set up JV for carbon fiber pre-preg production

India’s Kemrock Industries and Exports Ltd. (KIEL), which makes reinforced polymer composites, signed a partnership with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) on Nov. 16 for a joint venture. The new firm will develop, manufacture and market aerospace-grade carbon fiber pre-pegs, along with its associated pre-pegs for defense and aerospace programs in India.

Announcing the venture, Kalpesh Patel of KIEL said that both companies have identified opportunities for development and marketing of pre-pegs. “It has immense potential in aerospace and defense programs in India, as well as globally,” Patel said.

In May, KIEL commissioned India’s first carbon-fiber manufacturing facility in Vadodara in a technological tie-up with the National Aerospace Laboratory. The fully integrated plant has an initial capacity of 400 tons annually.

link

[MSphere]

Didn't the Russians ultimately pick the Mi-28 over the Ka-50/52 because it was cheaper?

The was not one single reason but a whole variety of them. None of them was decisive alone, though

- lobbying. Mil has much greater influence on ministry of defense, as well as on Helicopters Of Russia concern
- technologies - Ka-5x series is often seen as a Berkut of the helicopter world - a testbed for a variety of new technologies which result in greater technological risk but are a step forward towards new generation helicopter (coaxial rotors + push rotor)
- price - Ka-50 costs ca 20% more than Mi-28N. The maintenance requirements are lower but all spare parts except wheels and engine are specialized for Ka-5x while Mi-28N shares certain components with Mi-35 / Mi-17 series.
- logistics - Ka-50 cannot be trasnported in Russian tranport aircraft without having the main reductor removed.
- storing - Ka-50 does not fit in all hangars (almost five meters high)

[quadbike]

X Post from BR.

Americans are all over the competition when it comes to Ads.

[insomnia.delhi]

X Post from BR.

Americans are all over the competition when it comes to Ads.

But do they have advertisements on bus stops???

[quadbike]

Poor bit of marketing from SAAB no Babu or Minister is going to go by bus in India. And 90% of the people who use that bus shelter won't have a clue about it.